[Adda]

There are articles saying many things to be found.
 
http://angrydictator.com/2004/03/03/why-applecare-sucks/
 
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/21/smoking_may_void_applecare_warranty.html
 
http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-balks-at-repairing-macbook-air-hinges-under-warranty/8942

 

[tfarney]

 
 
 
Quote:

I'm GENERALLY concerned, because everyone in my field of work uses the same computer/OS, and I can't figure out why.

 
Do you mean you are GENUINELY concerned, or do you just have a broad, non-specific concern over the fact that everyone else in you chosen field is so much dumber than you are?
 
Tim
 
 

 

[powasky]

I've been a PC user my entire life, all the way back to DOS.  I now own a Dell XPS1530 that I installed windows 7 on.  The motherboard (and all of the components on it) has been replaced twice, the HDD once, and the screen once.  I have gotten countless BSODs and crashes.  It's creaky, keys have broken off, and it feels generally cheap.  In the end, my Dell PC was a piece of crap, and almost all of the reviews that I read of other PCs either make wishful comparisons to the MBP's body design or quickly gloss over design flaws that lead to the computer (or at least parts of it) feeling cheap.  Who wants a computer that doesn't feel solid?  Even reviews of the oh-so-highly-touted Sony Z series say that the screen bends and feels cheap.   Personally, I've tired of the "let me stick as many high end components into this crappy shell" BS and am going to purchase a MBP as my next computer.  Even if the components aren't as high end as they could be, the tradeoff in build quality is worth it to me.  

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

There are articles saying many things to be found.
 
http://angrydictator.com/2004/03/03/why-applecare-sucks/
 
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/21/smoking_may_void_applecare_warranty.html
 
http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-balks-at-repairing-macbook-air-hinges-under-warranty/8942

Yet Apple is still the clear leader in customer service and satisfaction, so it must logically follow that the PC world is even worse in this respect. Like most debates of Mac vs. PC, this one becomes quite circular, where the vast majority takes offense to basic facts like that, and tries to prove their point by attempting to thuggishly overwhelm the minority with cognitive dissonance.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

 

It's not the same kind warranty and support. If you have problems and need your OEM extended warranty, good luck convincing them that you problems are not the OS's fault, unless your machine has become a smoking blob of ruin.
 
Also, do you have any facts to back up "what you hear" regarding your customer support allegations? Apple is number one in that category, and it's not even close.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/apple-tops-pc-customer-service-rankings/
 
Anyways, good luck with your PC, you're going to need it!

It IS the same kind.  If a fan breaks, they're not going to tell me the OS is off.  Infact, I've gotten more in warranty approvals (in percentile) vs my sister from her Apple products, and for similar issues.  (HDD failure, fan failure, optical drive failure, etc.)  Apple customer service is terrible, and so are those other companies mentioned.  Interestingly enough, they didn't ask people about ASUS or Acer machines, AND they didn't do a good enough sample.
 
To do a PROPER study, you'd have to find a minimum of 1000 Mac users, 1000 HP, 1000 Dell, and etc.  Not just poll 5000 and draw conclusions from that.  (Due to Mac's lesser marketshare, that would be an unfair representation.)  In the end, that study is biased.
 
@tfarney
 
You're worthless in this conversation.  Go away unless you have anything constructive to add.  I apologize for making a grammatical error, since that seems to offend you so deeply.

 

[ROBSCIX]

 
Quote:

 

It's not the same kind warranty and support. If you have problems and need your OEM extended warranty, good luck convincing them that you problems are not the OS's fault, unless your machine has become a smoking blob of ruin.
 
Also, do you have any facts to back up "what you hear" regarding your customer support allegations? Apple is number one in that category, and it's not even close.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/apple-tops-pc-customer-service-rankings/
 
Anyways, good luck with your PC, you're going to need it!

Yeah, say hi to the guys at Apple tech support. 
Hope you bought a ACPP because you're going to need that!
 

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

 
 
Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7H3L457H0P3 

 

Just some pointers to people who have problems with viruses; most is common sense, but well common sense is not common: 1) You are not lucky, you didn't win anything. Don't click on these popups or anything that says you have a virus, or free software.

2) If a pop up is on your screen don't hit the exit button. Either "end process" through task manager (aka CTRL + ALT + DEL) or use "ALT +F4" which will terminate any program mid process.

3) Don't download stuff from shady sites and don't torrent or visit explicit webpages.

4) Delete your page files, cookies, history etc. not because your invisible or can't be tracked but because it free's up resources and speeds up your computer.

5) Use Google Chrome, or firefox if you must, avoid safari and internet explorer.

6) Don't download suspicious emails. Ignore emails from people you don't know and if you get some rubbish email from a friend or family that says check this so forth. Delete it.

7) INSTALL AN ANTI-VIRUS and pay money for an actual version. Windows, OS X, Linux you are all vulnerable despite what you think. PC's are just a bigger target. If you're going to attack a cyber installation, what would you rather inflict: a few million or several billion casualties. That's rhetorical no need to explain your diabolical plan to take over the world.

8) Nothing is secure on the internet. Not your passwords, not your email accounts, facebook security (ROFL). The internet is the easiest place to get information and people will.

9) Almost anything short of hardware failure is recoverable. If you take care of your PC and it slows down. It's not broken. Just clean it up, run a virus scan, or wipe the HDD and reinstall the OS, which you should do once every year or two just for upkeeping. It's not a PC thing it's a I'm using technology thing.

Erm...  I love that you're on the Windows side of the fence, but...

 

2.  End process on a little popup?  <_<  That'd close your browser, and lose any information you're typing.  That's a little over the top.  You can feel safe to click the OUTSIDE MOST close button.  (I know what you're referring to, but, lulz.)

 

3.  HA!  They tricked you into thinking all torrents have viruses?  Torrents are fine, you just have to be careful.

 

4. You need your page file...  That's part of the virtual memory.  Cookies and History don't slow you down either.

 

5. Firefox is more secure than Chrome, with the right extensions.  And Google tracks everything done in Chrome.

 

6. Who uses a POP3/IMAP client anymore?  Unless you're on an Exchange server, your emails are online.  Just don't download attachments unless you're expecting them.

 

7. You don't need to buy an antivirus for it to be secure.  Avast!, Avira, AVG... All free and decent antivirus programs.  I'd never recommend paying for anything you can get for free.  They don't even work better...  <_<
 

8. Right... The internet is fine, take off your tinfoil hat.  Yes, your information isn't massively secure, but just don't put in your home address unless you're buying something.  Secure connections do exist for a reason, and those paranoid about banking or anything on a PC are just being idiots.

 

9. Well... A virus scan won't do you much if you're all slow.  Get Malwarebytes and scan with that.  Don't download/use registry cleaners.  Doing a reformat is evasive of the problem at hand, and usually not needed.

 
2) I was referring to popups that are integrated into webpages that follow you as you scroll, or that have button on them which will install stuff if you click, or pop ups that look like programs but the close button is either inoperative or a trigger to the install. I actually had a pop-up on starting windows once that said your windows key may be invalid and it looked legit but I'm not stupid, CTRL + ALT + DEL wouldn't work so I just ALT + F4'd that sucker and sure enough my key was valid when I went into system properties.
 
3) Torrents can have viruses I could upload something right now that looked legit but was actually some form of malware and I could probable catch a few people before someone detected and flagged it. Also torrenting is illegal (yes I know torrenting originated as a a method of peer to peer sharing in businesses etc.), but now it's mostly people stealing files. And besides the fact that it's illegal it makes honest people like myself have to worry about DRM. I love Ubisoft, but Splinter Cell's DRM drives me crazy. I was on a plane for 24 hours (2 flights back to back) and I had a plug in for my laptop but no wireless so I couldn't play until I landed.
 
4) I delete cookies specifically because I don't like leaving my login and secure data on my computer. You shouldn't have to use virtual memory unless your computer sucks. I have 4 GB RAM and I don't use more than half of it at any given time. Even when running multiple games.
 
5) Firefox isn't as fast as chrome for the most part from my dealings with both. Internet security is a joke, obviously you're being tracked no matter what browser or OS you are using so why bother hiding anything.
 
6) I have multiple email accounts both stored locally and online for access where there is no internet. I don't download anything for the most part unless it's something I've purchased. And if an email has a link I don't even click it. I just go there myself through my browser. I'm sure you are all aware of the banking scam a few months (might have been longer) back on the iPhone.
 
7) I've used avast and avg, but not avira. I've also used McAfee and Norton among a few others. By the way don't run multiple anti-viruses unless you want to increase your risk.
 
8) Yeah I'm not paranoid. I just like to keep my data secure. Alternating alpha numeric passwords for the win.
 
9) The reformat is mostly part of routine maintenance. I've run probably 5-6 different OS's in the last year and like to keep my HDD space free. OS's rewrite constantly which is fine it just degrades your HDD performance over time. I've heard it really gives SSD's a hard time.
 
 
I'm not a big fan on any one company (referring to Foxconn). I usually pick and choose from companies I know are good at certain components. E.g.: HDD: Seagate, SSD: Intel, CPU: Intel/AMD, GPU: NVIDIA/ATI (Vapor-X aka Sapphire; or Galaxy or Sparkle for low profile and single slot GPU's; or Biostar for shorter length GPU's) Motherboards: ASUS/MSI, PSU: Corsair, Case: Thermaltake, Antec, RAM: Kingston, Corsair.
 
I will deviate from those brands if a better price to performance component is available, but I always check these companies.
 
Also vista wasn't bad just most people's rigs lacked the power to harness it. DirectX 10 had some awesome features.
 
Also avoid atom like the plague. Go for at least a CULV which are actually quite nice. CLV would be better if you need more power while still conserving battery life. The only think worse than a netbook is an iPad. It's not even x86. ARM is good for handhelds, but not for slates.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 

[Adda]

Quote:

 

Yet Apple is still the clear leader in customer service and satisfaction, so it must logically follow that the PC world is even worse in this respect. Like most debates of Mac vs. PC, this one becomes quite circular, where the vast majority takes offense to basic facts like that, and tries to prove their point by attempting to thuggishly overwhelm the minority with cognitive dissonance.

Asking the regular user about their satisfaction with different companies may be interesting, and it's no wonder people are satisfied with Apple products as their quality are quite a bit above the average consumer computer.
The general quality of PC's is horrible, they are all about bang for the buck, and this is what the average consumer buys, unless they buy a MacBook, thats why this result is not surprising at all.
If your product range doesn't have low-end/low-budget solutions people who buy your product will be more satisfied.
I would never buy a consumer notebook because quality, flexibility, serviceability and durability is just as important as performance.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

It IS the same kind.  If a fan breaks, they're not going to tell me the OS is off.  Infact, I've gotten more in warranty approvals (in percentile) vs my sister from her Apple products, and for similar issues.  (HDD failure, fan failure, optical drive failure, etc.)  Apple customer service is terrible, and so are those other companies mentioned.  Interestingly enough, they didn't ask people about ASUS or Acer machines, AND they didn't do a good enough sample.
 
To do a PROPER study, you'd have to find a minimum of 1000 Mac users, 1000 HP, 1000 Dell, and etc.  Not just poll 5000 and draw conclusions from that.  (Due to Mac's lesser marketshare, that would be an unfair representation.)  In the end, that study is biased.
 
@tfarney
 
You're worthless in this conversation.  Go away unless you have anything constructive to add.  I apologize for making a grammatical error, since that seems to offend you so deeply.

 
That may be the case for you, but when my HP broke down, it was because Windows 7 couldn't find a certain fan driver for the power/temperature management system. I had upgraded to W7 after being told by HP and M$ that the OS was "fully compatible" with my machine. So then I had overheating, which melted the environmentally friendly but substandard solder used on the HP motherboard. HP told me it was M$'s fault, M$ told me it was HP's fault, and I had to replace my laptop on my own. I personally have never had a problem with AppleCare, and have been using Apple products since the '80s. Just my experiences.
 
I think that the study I cited plus my personal experience is quite constructive, even if you don't agree. Why do you assume that I have a problem with your grammatical errors? Without getting personal, please prove your own "worth" by citing a "proper" study that backs up your subjective allegations, if there is one.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7H3L457H0P3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
2) I was referring to popups that are integrated into webpages that follow you as you scroll, or that have button on them which will install stuff if you click, or pop ups that look like programs but the close button is either inoperative or a trigger to the install. I actually had a pop-up on starting windows once that said your windows key may be invalid and it looked legit but I'm not stupid, CTRL + ALT + DEL wouldn't work so I just ALT + F4'd that sucker and sure enough my key was valid when I went into system properties.
 
I know what you were referring to.  And, honestly, I haven't run into one that can hide the topbar in six years.  That was an old IE exploit.  Now, they have to have topbars with accessible close buttons.  If all else fails, you can ALT-F4.  Using Taskman to kill it is a little over the top.
 
3) Torrents can have viruses I could upload something right now that looked legit but was actually some form of malware and I could probable catch a few people before someone detected and flagged it. Also torrenting is illegal (yes I know torrenting originated as a a method of peer to peer sharing in businesses etc.), but now it's mostly people stealing files. And besides the fact that it's illegal it makes honest people like myself have to worry about DRM. I love Ubisoft, but Splinter Cell's DRM drives me crazy. I was on a plane for 24 hours (2 flights back to back) and I had a plug in for my laptop but no wireless so I couldn't play until I landed.
 
Yeahno.  Unless you make a virus yourself (unlikely) and it passes heuristic scans (even more unlikely), you aren't getting it past 99% of intelligent torrenters, like myself.  The only games I DO torrent are games that employ such game-breaking DRM (such as Splinter Cell), because they often disable that DRM and allow you to play the game as you please, not when and if they want.
 
4) I delete cookies specifically because I don't like leaving my login and secure data on my computer. You shouldn't have to use virtual memory unless your computer sucks. I have 4 GB RAM and I don't use more than half of it at any given time. Even when running multiple games.
 
Page Files still help.  So does Superfetch.  No matter if you have 512mb or 16gb of ram.  It's not that you need it, it's that it helps.
 
5) Firefox isn't as fast as chrome for the most part from my dealings with both. Internet security is a joke, obviously you're being tracked no matter what browser or OS you are using so why bother hiding anything.
 
No, it's not as fast.  But, I don't need to shave milliseconds from my browsing time.  <_<  Internet security isn't as much of a joke as you think it is.  Not everyone is spying on you.
 
6) I have multiple email accounts both stored locally and online for access where there is no internet. I don't download anything for the most part unless it's something I've purchased. And if an email has a link I don't even click it. I just go there myself through my browser. I'm sure you are all aware of the banking scam a few months (might have been longer) back on the iPhone.
 
This is overly paranoid, as I mentioned.  You just have to be safe.  Links?  Check the status bar.  Attachments?  Don't download anything you're not expecting.
 
7) I've used avast and avg, but not avira. I've also used McAfee and Norton among a few others. By the way don't run multiple anti-viruses unless you want to increase your risk.
 
McAfee and Norton are terrible, I was hoping you were supporting NOD32 or Kaspersky.  Avast and AVG, both of which are free, are a million times better than Norton, have faster updates/better detection rates, and use up a LOT less memory/processor time.
 
8) Yeah I'm not paranoid. I just like to keep my data secure. Alternating alpha numeric passwords for the win.
 
Ha!  I've had the same passwords for ages.  Never been hacked, probably never going to get hacked.  Infact, every account that I've made that doesn't deal with money (IE: Paypal/Banking) or my gmail has the exact same password.
 
9) The reformat is mostly part of routine maintenance. I've run probably 5-6 different OS's in the last year and like to keep my HDD space free. OS's rewrite constantly which is fine it just degrades your HDD performance over time. I've heard it really gives SSD's a hard time.
 
But reformatting isn't needed as much as you're making it out to be.  It's evasive, solving the problem by nuking everything.  There are better ways.

Also vista wasn't bad just most people's rigs lacked the power to harness it. DirectX 10 had some awesome features.
 
Come now, Vista had some bad bugs in it, nevermind breaking all drivers because they rushed it out, instead of getting RTM copies to manufacturers and waiting a couple months.
 
Also avoid atom like the plague. Go for at least a CULV which are actually quite nice. CLV would be better if you need more power while still conserving battery life. The only think worse than a netbook is an iPad. It's not even x86. ARM is good for handhelds, but not for slates.
 
Why would you avoid Atom like the plague?  They're good for super-mobile machines (IE: my netbook) since they're low cost, low power usage, and fairly good.  (1.6ghz dual core in a 10" laptop = awesome.)  And yes, the iPad would be a million times better if it wasn't ARM based.  An iPad at the same cost, running OSX Snow Leopard is a device I would buy.

 

 

[Hybrys]

 
Quote:

 
 
That may be the case for you, but when my HP broke down, it was because Windows 7 couldn't find a certain fan driver for the power/temperature management system. I had upgraded to W7 after being told by HP and M$ that the OS was "fully compatible" with my machine. So then I had overheating, which melted the environmentally friendly but substandard solder used on the HP motherboard. HP told me it was M$'s fault, M$ told me it was HP's fault, and I had to replace my laptop on my own. I personally have never had a problem with AppleCare, and have been using Apple products since the '80s. Just my experiences.
 
I think that the study I cited plus my personal experience is quite constructive, even if you don't agree. Why do you assume that I have a problem with your grammatical errors? Without getting personal, please prove your own "worth" by citing a "proper" study that backs up your subjective allegations, if there is one.

The bottom half was in response to someone else, that's why there's an '@', meaning 'directed towards'.
 
As for your problem above, I kinda think you're lying.  For one, fans don't have drivers.  For two, heat management is handled in the BIOS, not in the OS.  Temp sensors report to the BIOS first, and to the OS only if heat is getting out of control.  For three, HP probably recommended updating your BIOS and doing a clean install of Win7. Did you do either of those things?  Probably not.

 

[Adda]

Sounds like the cooler was stuffed full of dust, it can kill the best of laptops.
 
Quote:

That may be the case for you, but when my HP broke down, it was because Windows 7 couldn't find a certain fan driver for the power/temperature management system. I had upgraded to W7 after being told by HP and M$ that the OS was "fully compatible" with my machine. So then I had overheating, which melted the environmentally friendly but substandard solder used on the HP motherboard. HP told me it was M$'s fault, M$ told me it was HP's fault, and I had to replace my laptop on my own.

 

[cyberspyder]

I have MSE and I have to say, it is even better than AVG, not that I've gotten any viruses in the last, say, 7 years.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

The bottom half was in response to someone else, that's why there's an '@', meaning 'directed towards'.
 
As for your problem above, I kinda think you're lying.  For one, fans don't have drivers.  For two, heat management is handled in the BIOS, not in the OS.  Temp sensors report to the BIOS first, and to the OS only if heat is getting out of control.  For three, HP probably recommended updating your BIOS and doing a clean install of Win7. Did you do either of those things?  Probably not.

 
I'm not lying, but you are certainly getting more personal, why is that?
 
This is a well-documented problem with the TX series and HP had recalled some of them but not my model because there was too many of them. There's literally hundreds of threads documenting this problem. The power management system for the built-in Nvidia card needed a specific driver, and Windows update would advise me that they couldn't find one; I should have reverted back to Vista immediately, but I waited until I couldn't use the wifi card anymore because the the solder on the motherboard was already breaking down from the temperature management problems caused by the unavailable driver for this "Windows 7 approved" machine.
 
I only had W7 on my notebook for a couple of months total, and yes, I did do a clean install, letting W7 completely zero out the drive first. If I was advised to do a BIOS update, I would have done it, I honestly can't remember. Even after I switched back to Vista and fixed the driver issue, the motherboard had been compromised by the heat damage and failure became inevitable and irreversible. As far as dust goes, at no time was I advised that I needed to use my portable notebook computer in a hermetically sealed environment, lol.
 
I did replace my Tx1000 with a Tx2z, so I'm not just trolling here, as I use both platforms. I have owned and used many Windows machines over the years, and have administrated a few multi-platform LANs. How many Macs have you owned and/or used?
 
If anyone wants to buy a cosmetically perfect TX1000 with a compromised motherboard, make me an offer! Includes all documentation, discs, and accessories. The screen had no dead pixels the last time I could actually see it. I could post a photo of both machines side by side if anyone still thinks I am "lying", lol.
 
Hybris, please limit your arguments to statements that you can support with statistical data and refrain from groundless personal attacks, otherwise you have NO credibility.
 

 

[Adda]

Quote:

 As far as dust goes, at no time was I advised that I needed to use my portable notebook computer in a hermetically sealed environment, lol.

Well you don't, dust is a real problem though, I have had many overheating laptops come my way, and usually it's due to dust.
It's usually easy to fix though, but I'm worried about how many clueless people who have had their laptops die due to this trivial problem.
 
Strange that HP didn't take responsibility for the death of your laptop, since the it was caused by a common problem.
 
Edit: Whats even more strange is the the problem exists at all, the GeForce Go 6150 is an integrated GPU and uses very little power, so how can it produce so much heat ?:-|
It must have been an incompatibility between the BIOS fan controller and Windows 7.