[Blaze182]

I know relatively nothing about these headphones, infact I've only seen reference to them when reading about voltages on amps for driving headphones and the odd reference to the ability to power an electrostatic headphone..
 
In short.. how good can these cans be?? What makes them so 'good'?

 

[oldshoe99]

Quote:

I know relatively nothing about these headphones, infact I've only seen reference to them when reading about voltages on amps for driving headphones and the odd reference to the ability to power an electrostatic headphone..
 
In short.. how good can these cans be?? What makes them so 'good'?

There are many factors in headphone sound, but the main factor that sets the electrostatics apart is that the diaphragm (which produces the sound) is driven evenly over all of its surface, whereas ordinary dynamics are driven from a central point only and thus the diaphragm can't respond as well over its entire surface.
 
 

 

[TMRaven]

Their driver is light, therefor has a fast transient response.  It's also super big, therefor can extend real low without having to artificially reinforce the bass response.

 

[stv014]

It also has lower distortion, especially with loud bass (which requires the largest range of diaphragm movement).
 

 

[Hakone]

Also, the diaphragm is perforated. This on top of it being thin and light gives an airy feel in more ways than one.
It gives a nice airy effect around the ears and helps against sweat buildup and comfort.
The sound has more of a feeling of appearing out of thin air. No pun intended.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Actually, the diaphragm shouldn't be perforated...but the stators/electrodes are.
 
There's two things you'll often hear from electrostatic fans:
 
-The sound seems to "float into your ear" more than it's "pushed in like a dynamic". It lends a nice airy, atmospheric presentation, but naturally detracts from impact somewhat. (Don't let this fool you into thinking that electrostatics have absolutely no punch to the bass, however...)
 
-There's a sense of "clear, effortless sound" that makes non-electrostatic equipment sound "veiled" by comparison.
 
It all sounds like audiophile babble, doesn't it? Well, when you get the chance to hear some 'stats, it'll all suddenly make sense.
 
I just wish most of them weren't so hideously expensive...to be frank, it's by being in the right place at the right time with just enough money that I even have this Stax Lambda on my head. (But I'm still tempted to try out a later Lambda model...or maybe the Koss ESP/950...)

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

The sound has more of a feeling of appearing out of thin air. No pun intended.

 
Quote:

-The sound seems to "float into your ear" more than it's "pushed in like a dynamic". It lends a nice airy, atmospheric presentation, but naturally detracts from impact somewhat. (Don't let this fool you into thinking that electrostatics have absolutely no punch to the bass, however...)
 
-There's a sense of "clear, effortless sound" that makes non-electrostatic equipment sound "veiled" by comparison.
 
It all sounds like audiophile babble, doesn't it? Well, when you get the chance to hear some 'stats, it'll all suddenly make sense.

Great descriptions of the electrostat sound.  One criticism I'll level, though, is that the depth of the sound feels pretty flat to be compared to something like a properly driven HD800.  A properly selected tube preamp can help with that (for the O2 and reportedly for the SR009) but it's still not HD800 class, IMO.
 
The Eddie Current Electra may be a step apart from the pack when it comes to soundstaging, and there should be more prototype impressions over the coming months.
 
The first time you hear a SR007/SR009, you might not be wowed immediately.  If you do come across a high-end Stax rig, queue up some music you're familiar with, close your eyes, and try to listen without any stress of needing to move on right away.  The sound that comes from Stax electrostats remind me of the build quality and design of a really well-crafted piece of electronics, like something from Apple or German automotive engineering.  You'll notice that they do everything 'right', but it's in such an effortless way that you take it for granted until you make an effort to manually dissect the composition.  The LCD2 and HD800 are more exciting (and far less finicky about chain) from the get-go, but you should be able to pinpoint their limitations after you spend some good time with a stat setup.  I have no experience with the Senns yet, but I've heard great things about the HE60 and HE90.
 
Cost is a big issue, but just as much is how finicky stats are about the chain.  With a suboptimal setup, some will find them detailed but detached, uninvolving, and emotionless.  It took me a lot of tweaking and trying out different devices until I finally got to something I really like, and I still have more tube rolling ahead of me.  It's amazing when you finally get there, but for me anyway, it took awhile doing a lot of research and experimentation before I finally got to the point that I could enjoy the music and stop focusing on my setup's weaknesses.  I don't think stats are a good idea for people looking for a plug-and-play solution like the Bifrost->Lyr->LCD2.

 

[Blaze182]

Thanks for all the information!! =D
 
Sounds like their audio quality is a lot more dependant on amp & dac selection/combos.
 
I'm not looking into buying one, just curious as to their perks over conventional cans. Still happy with the K701's, although they could use some more depth on the base department, apart from that they still give an amazing sound stage =D

 

[customcoco]

Quote:

 
 
 
The first time you hear a SR007/SR009, you might not be wowed immediately.

 
that's how I felt when I first heard the sr007, but the system feeding them was pretty good : dcs puccini, srm006t.
 
I know the amp isn't exactly "top tier" but are they really that "amp dependent"?

 

[Elysian]

I can't speak to the amp, but I've made significant changes to my signal chain (transport, DAC, digital filters, tubes, preamp) which has drastically affected the sound.  I haven't heard a top-tier stat amp yet, but based on how far my SR007As have come along, I still don't think I'm driving them to their true potential.  They require a /lot/ of experimentation, and a lot of it will depend on how comfortable you feel tuning your setup for the sound you're seeking.
 
Fwiw, I had a HFer come over the other day (who has heard a lot of gear) who was pretty apathetic about my SR007A before I made a lot of changes.  With the new setup, he listened for about 8 hours straight, and I think it left a bit of an impact on him.  It's hard to put the sound signature into words since it's not really comparable of anything he or I have heard so far.  We also plan on doing a lot of system experiments with the HD800.
 
The thing that's impressed me most about the SR007A is how the sound can vary so drastically based on what's feeding it.  That's the biggest pro and con of the headphone IMO.  I still don't think I've pushed it to its limits and it can still take more.

 

[CEE TEE]

I totally agree with this...Elysian is onto some things.
 
(There may be a thread about his system waiting to be born.)
 
Quote:

Great descriptions of the electrostat sound.  One criticism I'll level, though, is that the depth of the sound feels pretty flat to be compared to something like a properly driven HD800.  A properly selected tube preamp can help with that (for the O2 and reportedly for the SR009) but it's still not HD800 class, IMO.
 
The Eddie Current Electra may be a step apart from the pack when it comes to soundstaging, and there should be more prototype impressions over the coming months.
 
The first time you hear a SR007/SR009, you might not be wowed immediately.  If you do come across a high-end Stax rig, queue up some music you're familiar with, close your eyes, and try to listen without any stress of needing to move on right away.  The sound that comes from Stax electrostats remind me of the build quality and design of a really well-crafted piece of electronics, like something from Apple or German automotive engineering.  You'll notice that they do everything 'right', but it's in such an effortless way that you take it for granted until you make an effort to manually dissect the composition.  The LCD2 and HD800 are more exciting (and far less finicky about chain) from the get-go, but you should be able to pinpoint their limitations after you spend some good time with a stat setup.  I have no experience with the Senns yet, but I've heard great things about the HE60 and HE90.
 
Cost is a big issue, but just as much is how finicky stats are about the chain.  With a suboptimal setup, some will find them detailed but detached, uninvolving, and emotionless.  It took me a lot of tweaking and trying out different devices until I finally got to something I really like, and I still have more tube rolling ahead of me.  It's amazing when you finally get there, but for me anyway, it took awhile doing a lot of research and experimentation before I finally got to the point that I could enjoy the music and stop focusing on my setup's weaknesses.  I don't think stats are a good idea for people looking for a plug-and-play solution like the Bifrost->Lyr->LCD2.

 

 

[Uncle Erik]

I agree.  A lot of the benefit is from a very low mass driver.
 
However, I think the best implementation of electrostatic technology is with speakers.  Most electrostatic speakers are dipoles, so you get an amazing soundstage with them; something the headphones don't give you.
 
Further, electrostatic speakers cost less than the headphones.  Used Quads cost less than most Stax models and since they have an internal bias supply, you can amplify them for much less than a pair of Stax.  So if you like the electrostatic sound, you can go with speakers for less money and better sound quality.

 

[Blaze182]

What electro-stat speakers are available? i.e. good brands? Quick google search yields DIY kits =P haha.
 
Whats the comb effect refer to for speakers?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

I agree.  A lot of the benefit is from a very low mass driver.
 
However, I think the best implementation of electrostatic technology is with speakers.  Most electrostatic speakers are dipoles, so you get an amazing soundstage with them; something the headphones don't give you.
 
Further, electrostatic speakers cost less than the headphones.  Used Quads cost less than most Stax models and since they have an internal bias supply, you can amplify them for much less than a pair of Stax.  So if you like the electrostatic sound, you can go with speakers for less money and better sound quality.

Funny, I've never been a fan of any electro-stat headphone or speaker I've heard....just didn't sound like real life to me. I haven't heard the SR009s, so I do hold out hope...the SR007s weren't my cup of tea so to speak.
 

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

What electro-stat speakers are available? i.e. good brands? Quick google search yields DIY kits =P haha.
 
Whats the comb effect refer to for speakers?

The likely most popular and common electrostat manufacturer would be MartinLogan - their products are mostly all hybrids and use dynamic voice coils for the low end. There's also the Quads that Erik mentioned. I'm at a loss to name any other non-DIY/cottage products. 
 
Regarding "comb effect," perhaps you mean comb filtering? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_filter
 
As far as electrostatic headphones (back to your original question) - I agree with most of the observations in this thread. I'm not married to one technology over another, and the price premium for electrostatic headphones is just silly in my opinion (electrostatic speakers don't tend to be outrageous by comparison - a good pair of Logans is around the same price as a good pair of speakers from anywhere else (Klipsch, VonSchweikert, B&W, whatever), or close enough that you don't feel cheated for making that choice; some STAX on the other hand can cost as much as every current dynamic flagship on the market put together and they still don't have amplification and you've still gotta add in music and all the other bits). I agree with Erik for the most part; ESPs are fun to play with and hear, but I'd rather spend $12,000+ on a speaker/room solution.