i cant see how 1500mw drivers at 70ohms is simply easy. That may be the reason why people think they have an overly high treble, undercutting power can have that effect certainly on a stiff diaphragm. But for clarification the CI VHP is the Ciaudio VHP-(2)? that's what i find when i search it.
Yes I mean the CI Audio VHP-2 (or VHP-1; they're almost the exact same (the VHP-2 has a few production revisions, like a better pot, but otherwise they're identical)). VHP-2 is current production. I did not find the VAC-1 to do anything for mine (I had the VHP-1).
You're mis-understanding/representing specs, but we'll get to that in the chain reply:
1500mw? That information doesn't make sense. The SA5000 are incredibly easy to drive compared to other inefficient low resistance headphones.
Indeed. 1500mW represents Sony's claimed maximum input for the drivers, which is likely Tmax, not Xmax. The SA5000 *are* very sensitive, low-ish impedance, and very stable: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRVSA5000.pdf
.09mW/ch into 75R ~90dBSPL - and there aren't any huge peaks or valleys on the impedance plot. Doesn't need much of anything to drive it at all.
compared to what other headphones?
Compared to something like the K701 or HD 650. The SA5000 are *very* easily driven, and *very* unpicky (the K701 are picky because they need something like 1.5mW/ch, and the HD 650 because their impedance plot looks like Kingda-Ka).
1500mw is the amount of power the sa5000 can handle at its nominal ohm level before distortion. all headphones (drivers for that matter) have a rated power level, wether its listed in specs or not. mw being milliwatt= 1000ths of a watt. Correct me if i'm wrong.
You are indeed wrong.
All drivers (doesn't matter what kind) do have a number of specified maximum values (maximum excursion, power input (continuous, peak, instant, etc), thermal, SPL, etc) - you are right about that. Where it gets murky is how that spec relates to what you're talking about.
First we should assume that 1.5W/ch spec is thermal limiting, as in 1.5W/ch or greater will fuse the voicecoil (which sounds about right, given how thin the wires are, and how small the driver is). Not "amount of power before distortion" - it'll be distorting pretty terribly well before that point though, because the driver will be moving pretty dramatically (higher excursion = higher distortion), and you may hit Xmax or cook the driver off before 1.5W (because Sony is so vague on their specs - 1.5W could be an instantaneous value, or a peak value, or a thermal limit, but I'll tell you almost certainly is NOT a continuous limit, and it does not mean a zero distortion limit; further indication can be gleaned from the THD measurements that Tyll did - it rises pretty aggressively when he dumped more power into them).
But that isn't the entire story - you also have to consider sensitivity and impedance (as in the plot) in this equation of "is this hard to drive?" - a very sensitive headphone will translate less power into more intensity (and the MDR-SA5000 are *very* sensitive), and a stable impedance plot indicates a fairly stable load (which means it doesn't really care what you do with Zout as long as the amplifier doesn't blow itself up when you connect it; and the MDR-SA5000 are very stable). This means they are not going to be very picky about what they are plugged into (as in the FR won't shift around a lot due to Zsource), and they don't need a lot of power to drive.
And indeed they do exemplify this - I had no issues whatsoever driving them adequately on a variety of components of varying quality and specification and getting a consistent "this is an MDR-SA5000" effect.
However, this doesn't mean they're all sunshine and rainbows (just because your Fischer Price Speak And Spell can drive them doesn't mean it *should*) - because they're very sensitive, and because Sony actually put some time and thought into building them right, they're absolutely revealing of channel imbalance and noise on the part of the amplifier or volume control section of whatever they're hooked into. This means that noisy wipers, cheap pots, etc will all come through clear as crystal. They will also let you know about your amp's noise floor unless it's relatively low. So amp selection is somewhat important for headphones like this as well - not because you need a lot of power (or the perennial favorite "lots of current"), or some magical zero ohm output impedance (for a "high overall DF" (ha!)); but because if you get a pot that gives you that "rustling leaves" thing, changing the volume is really annoying. And if the pot doesn't track L/R together across the lower half of it's range, you will probably always be annoyed by the mismatch (and because they're so sensitive, you usually are using the "beginning" of the pot's range, which is usually where the mismatches occur). And if you think you're just gonna drop the signal going into whatever flimsy amp, and then run its output up, you'll probably pick up a lot of noise (white noise, RF, whatever - it's random), which they'll let you know about too.
This is why I couldn't stand the FiiO E9 with them. It's a fine amp, especially for something higher Z and darker like the HD 580, or less sensitive, like the K701, but for the SA5000 it's an exercise in annoyance.
The best setup I ever ran mine on was a PC soundcard with a built-in headamp; perfect tracking and no noise. Tried it on a pre/power combo (designed for speakers) with a digital volume control and it worked just as well. The CI amp also does that (more or less; the pot on mine was a little noisy (but it tracked well enough), but Dusty at CI reports the VHP-2 more or less fixed that complaint). I'd also say that the Musical Fidelity V-CAN-II is a good candidate here, as it is VERY quiet, and the pot tracks very well (at least mine does; no idea if they're 100% consistent and all that).
So basically you want a relatively clean and well put together amplifier is my point. They really don't care beyond that, and won't change "flavor" on you due to Zsource or similar. Now if the amplifier isn't perfectly flat on the output (e.g. it has a DSP or its tubed or whatever), that will come through too, and YMMV with what you like there. Because they're sensitive, but also have relatively large drivers (this means low excursion generally) and can take a reasonable amount of continuous power, they take well to equalization and other effects processing (as long as it's also clean, of course). This doesn't mean you can turn them into an XB1000 though; they will "fart" if you rack the bass up too high (which I'd wager is the excursion limit - usually super-stiff drivers aren't designed to move very far (if at all)).
Regarding the "they are bright due to undercutting power" - I don't think so. They're a bright headphone no matter what. The bass is very good though - one of the tightest and dryest dynamics I've ever heard, it just isn't very impactful. I mean yes, in principle what you're saying there is correct, but you'd be talking about an amplifier that delivers so little power (we're talking less than a fraction of a mW at clipping - most preamp outputs can beat that) in order to reproduce what you're describing. I just don't think you'd find that out in the wild (honestly the amplifiers they put into mobile phones these days can usually deliver at least 10mW/channel, which is so much more than the SA5000 would ever need).
I think that is a lot of power for these headphones. I think they're spec'd for power at around 105db/mW, which makes them pretty darn efficient headphones. I think if you got 1500mW they would be pretty unlistenable. These are very easy headphones to drive.
It would be beyond unlistenable for the moment before they exploded. I honestly do not think you could keep them on your head unless you were restrained - it would HURT. We're talking something in the 120-140 dB range right before the pop; that's very painful (trust me if you've never done it - you don't want to, you aren't missing anything).
No hard feelings intended towards anyone.