[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth I do believe that if you had a family of 5 living in dowtown Toronto, that salary over 100k would be greatly appreciated, particularly if you want to send all your children to post-secondary without making them take out loans they will have to repay for an eternity. Can someone survive off of 100k? Of course, can they off of 50k? 30k?

Solution: 1) Don't live in Toronto. 2) Encourage your Wife to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth My point is that doctors and lawyers are middle class in Canada...

With most Canadian familys being dual income, 70k per year is most definately not middle class. I am not going to be crying over how 'little' Doctors make in Canada any time soon... especially general practitioners, they charge the Goverment for every little thing they can and guess who's pocket it comes out of?

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox People get paid more 'Gross' in Canada, but we get a crapload of tax, so our 'Net' pay is around the same as the equivalant pay for the same work in the US. It varies of course, I think IT gets paid a bit more in the states... unless you work for the provincial Gov't that is. Nobody is more overpaid than us.

Ah, no. Go to this site and check out the salaries for various jobs in the US and Canada. Do the currency exchange and in most cases the US comes out ahead.

Where we come out ahead is medical benefits. One hospital trip in the US is often enough to ruin you financially, and in fact medical care is the leading cause of bankruptcy there. If your wife has to deliver her baby out of state or if you've moved and the new insurance hasn't kicked in yet, you'll get dinged for a good 10-15 thousand. US.

If you're reasonably sure that neither yourself nor your family will ever incur any large medical costs, then you'll likely come out in front in the US. But I can't say that, which is why I'll live in Canada unless someone in the US wants to pay me a million buck a year salary.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Ah, no. Go to this site and check out the salaries for various jobs in the US and Canada. Do the currency exchange and in most cases the US comes out ahead. Where we come out ahead is medical benefits. One hospital trip in the US is often enough to ruin you financially, and in fact medical care is the leading cause of bankruptcy there. If your wife has to deliver her baby out of state or if you've moved and the new insurance hasn't kicked in yet, you'll get dinged for a good 10-15 thousand. US.

Fair enough, but what is their minimum wage and what do blue collar people make in the States? Last time I checked it was not good. Maybe things have changed. I'll check out that site, thanks.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Solution: 1) Don't live in Toronto. 2) Encourage your Wife to work. With most Canadian familys being dual income, 70k per year is most definately not middle class. I am not going to be crying over how 'little' Doctors make in Canada any time soon... especially general practitioners, they charge the Goverment for every little thing they can and guess who's pocket it comes out of?

I won't be living in Toronto unless I have to. My wife does work.

As far as middle class goes, 70k is still middle class, upper middle but still middle. I'm not saying that 70k isn't a nice salary. No, it is quite nice and in Canada, with medical generally covered, 70k can mean a very comfortable life-style. As for GP's...you have no idea what you are talking about sadly. I work in the medical field, GP's in Canada are treated horribly by the Government and it is the Government who is risking another great exodus or Brain drain. But now we are venturing into politics which is against TOS, so let's just say, Canada rocks, one can survive well enough on nearly any salary depending on what one wants out of life. The double car, suburb house etc will require bigger salaries with suitable job security. Canada is generally a friendly place, clean, with awesome landscape, much to do, and some fine culture and cuisine in the metros. If I had my pick I would move to Alberta, no provincial tax, richest province, exceptional steak in the metros (and perhaps too in the smaller towns) and some fo the best skiing in the world.

 

[Lil_JV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase I think I am the only one from edmonton on the board

Edmonton as well!

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth As far as middle class goes, 70k is still middle class, upper middle but still middle. I'm not saying that 70k isn't a nice salary. No, it is quite nice and in Canada, with medical generally covered, 70k can mean a very comfortable life-style.

Exactly, but if you assume a second income I would say it is getting into upper class territory. Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth As for GP's...you have no idea what you are talking about sadly. I work in the medical field, GP's in Canada are treated horribly by the Government and it is the Government who is risking another great exodus or Brain drain.

Really? Hmmm, this is not what I've heard in the past... but then again I am no expert on the subject, so I will defer to you here.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Exactly, but if you assume a second income I would say it is getting into upper class territory.

Yes of course, two incomes of 70k is upper class for sure. But a dual income of 70k or a single income of 70k most definitely is not.

 

[wali]

Toronto is a good place to live as long as you can tolerate -30 degrees in winter and 40+ degrees in summer.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wali Toronto is a good place to live as long as you can tolerate -30 degrees in winter and 40+ degrees in summer.

Or Ottawa, less polution but temp -40 or below and +40 in the summer

Longest rink in the world! Gotta love to skate to tackle it!

 

[jesse_w]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Paolo- 14.5% is the tax in BC. Its crazy. But a nice place to live.

ew I forgot about this, I'm moving to vancouver in a few weeks... edmonton right now.

btw zanth my understanding is that when all taxes, average incomes, prices of living and things are taken into account, on AVERAGE (perhaps medical professions are an exception, I do not know.) Canada and the US are almost exactly the same in terms of cost of living vs income.

purely in terms of economics Alberta is a pretty damn nice place to be living right now, but as a student that doesn't concern me much... I much prefer Vancouver. Its a beautiful city and theres alot of culture to go around.

jesse

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse_w btw zanth my understanding is that when all taxes, average incomes, prices of living and things are taken into account, on AVERAGE (perhaps medical professions are an exception, I do not know.) Canada and the US are almost exactly the same in terms of cost of living vs income. jesse

In terms of a loaf of bread, yeah sure, basically we both pay the same price save for the fact we pay CAD and they pay USD, so we come out ahead there, but overall no way, we pay more for everything excepting a few areas and two key areas: educationa and medical insurance. Otherwise they take us EASY. Think....10x the population + they get better discounts, it costs more to ship in Canada, and heck just to get it here. Hell, we even payer more for our own commodities, whereas we cut the Americans a deal. It's insane. I have lived just oustide of Boston for 6 months, and I have been offered an excellent position in Redmond. If it were not for my family and my education, I would there selling my soul to Bill for the big bucks. In Canada I'm eating it hard.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth It is not moot when the original post mentioned how Canadians make more, which is clearly not the case. Save for folks flipping burgers, practically any position in the US brings in more than the CAnadian equivalent. If 100k is more than enough for you then that is of course wonderful, but I do believe that if you had a family of 5 living in dowtown Toronto, that salary over 100k would be greatly appreciated, particularly if you want to send all your children to post-secondary without making them take out loans they will have to repay for an eternity. Can someone survive off of 100k? Of course, can they off of 50k? 30k? Sure. I don't disagree that one shouldn't live to make money, as in that being some life-long goal and personal achievement base, but seriously if someone wants to pay me 500k for the job I'm doing, I'm not going to argue. IF I find I'm not using the cash or living completely in what I believe is excess, I can give it away. I'd rather make the decision about how much money I can make and to whom it goes to vs. the government who squanders our money. When we are paying 50%+ over in taxes, and our government is burning through it, padding their pockets and scratching the asses of big business, I'll take what I can get and do with it as I see fit.

Sounds like you should move to the USA, you'd fit in well here

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth As far as middle class goes, 70k is still middle class, upper middle but still middle.

Actually I would call that upper class unless you have kids or are supporting a spouse. If that's income for a single person that's definitely upper class. The only reason people would think otherwise is because the greed of countries (*cough* US *cough*) skewing things. If that's one income for two people then i agree, upper-middle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akwok Uhh.. ...huh???

Which part confused you? lol. It's fairly simple: The amount people in the US expect/want to make is insane and greedy. It's a country run and inhabited by children, really.

 

[Zanth]

Technically, upper middle class is over 80k in Canada 110k is upper class, single or double income. It does not matter. I agree with you though, at 70k for a single person, unless one is living in a massive house with a really pricey car, 70k will offer plenty of luxury. As for me being suitable for the US, if I were a money grubber I would not be doing what I do, instaed I would be one of those 6+ figure making programmers or a 7 figure lawyer. I am neither, so I take your comment as an insult.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth I am neither, so I take your comment as an insult.

Well to be honest I am not apologetic of what I said... you were basically throwing your nose up at what your country provides for you. Canada is as close to a perfect country as you'll get, bud. You should respect it. I think anti-Patriotism in the US is perfectly okay right now what with the garbage over in Iraq and whatnot, but bashing the situation in Canada is sort of silly. Canada (to me) seems to be like the USA with a facelift

Okay, terrible anology but you get the idea. It's like they took the idea of a Democratic society and actually pulled it off correctly

Sure there's probably problems, but seriously where else would you have it better? People in US can bitch and moan about moving to Canada... where would the angry Canadians move to?