[vibin247]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...73542041338932

Here's the link to "Who Killed The Electric Car?" in its' entirety on Google Video. Be forewarned however, since it's an illegal copy of a DVD screener to the MPAA, so it probably won't be long until it's removed. If you haven't seen it, definitely check it out. It really pushed my desire to buy a hybrid in the future.

 

[cire]

i just finished watching it and it's really interesting. my whole attitude towards electrics have changed. i always thought that they were just crap with wheels, but they really aren't.

 

[Ingo]

Do they make electrics for people that pull horse trailers, camp trailers, boats, construction trailers, people hauling heavy loads, people who live in rural areas where weather makes four-wheel drive vehicles essential, ect., ect.? I wouldn't have a problem going electric if they adressed all those issues. I think a better option is diesel fuel technology and bio-diesel. I know a couple automotive class instructors that say diesel is going to take off in the next few years.

 

[Jeff Guidry]

I have seen the website for this feature, and some of the allegations are garden variety conspiracy theory with holes in the logic. I don't believe there was any nefarious conspiracy to kill the electric car, just a decision by the company to go in other directions.

BTW, I agree that diesel, now that a low sulfur version is mandated by the EPA, will get much more popular in the coming years. It's pollution level will be no greater than gasoline, and with the diesel's better gas mileage and better low end tourque, it's a no brainer.

Hybrids are more designed for city driving, there can be two markets, car companies don't have to make vehicles that operate well in both rural and urban environments.

 

[Uncle Erik]

It's a shame about the EV-1. I remember when those came out in California and they were incredible. I wanted one, and so did everyone I knew. GM should have kept it. They could have sold them here. Funny how they won't sell something people want when the company is darn close to chapter 7. Lately, I get the feeling that capitalism isn't the capitalism it used to be.

Speaking of hybrids, I just got back yesterday from a 3000+ mile road trip in a Prius. I decided not to put the miles on my car, so I rented one. I was about to get a standard compact, but noticed that the company rented hybrids. Did a quick calculation of the mileage, and decided that the Prius would pay for itself. It absolutely did.

The Prius is quirky, no doubt, but I ended up liking it. The only thing I hated was the rear wing- it splits the rear window in two and I never got used to it. Other than that, I averaged around 55 MPG and it suffered no lack of power in some 8,000' mountain passes.

I think hybrids are great. I'm still deeply in love with my RX-7, but would seriously consider leasing one. Don't know if I'd buy, since I'd hate to see the repair bill for the regenerative brakes or a new battery pack. Also, I think in another car generation or two, they'll wring more mileage out of them. For years, I had a '95 Escort with the 1.9L and a 5 speed. That thing would get around 38 MPG in the city and a few times I got it up to about 43 MPG on the highway. That was with completely conventional technology.

Ingo- it's a shame that Honda hasn't brought their diesel to the US. It's available everywhere in the world but here, and it's a great engine. 50+ MPG and, of course, it's a Honda.

 

[IEATTEFLON]

I just wish they brought out more hybrids that actually looked like a regular car. Most of the ones that I've seen seem to be designed with bubbles and the Jetsons in mind.

 

[JahJahBinks]

I bet Al Gore is in it.

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingo Do they make electrics for people that pull horse trailers, camp trailers, boats, construction trailers, people hauling heavy loads, people who live in rural areas where weather makes four-wheel drive vehicles essential, ect., ect.?

I think they're focusing on the other 90% of the U.S. population.

 

[afobisme]

is the video gone already? damnit, i wanted to use it for extra credit in one of my classes

 

[Bob_McBob]

Still available "elsewhere"...

 

[Ingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx I think they're focusing on the other 90% of the U.S. population.

I guess I could expect that someone from San Fransisco would say that. You obviously haven't been to the rural midwest, southwest, Texas, ect. ect. very much. Even here in Phoenix there is a great number of people that have a need for vehicles with more capability than any electric/hybrid car can offer.

I wish I was a lobbyist for companies pushing Diesel engine technology. I noticed someone mentioned the new low-sulfur diesel that will hit the pumps next year. Diesel was already, in some regards, cleaner than gasoline. Now, I don't think there's even a contest. Things like soybean oil or any vegetable oil are easily burned in diesel engines with even fewer emissions. There is a company based out of Hawaii that does diesel engine conversions so they can run on pretty much anything. A kit for a Cummins 24 valve 5.9 Liter diesel (the diesel engine in Dodge trucks from 1998-2002) costs around $1500if you can install yourself. I think it's another $1000 installed. Anyhow, you can roll right up to a McDonald's, pump out some of their used fryer oil, strain it with a cloth filter, and put it straight in the truck.

I read an article in a surfing magazine where some surfers took a Dodge pickup from Canada to Mexico down the coastline and didn't buy fuel one time! Every time they needed fuel, they found a fast-food restaurant and kindly asked them if they could have their fryer oil. That's incredible.

The Volkswagen TDI engines are rated to run on bio-diesel as long as it's mixed with 10% diesel #2 (that's currently) right out of the factory.

 

[blessingx]

It's always great being stereotyped. Growing up in rural Sullivan, Ohio (pop. 400) and working up till college on a farm, gave me no experience in said uses.

More than 10% of the population owns a horse, or a trailer or a boat or construction equipment? Seriously... of the entire U.S. population? What percent do you think (keeping in mind urban and coastal growth patterns)? I know people from 16 year old boys to soccer moms like pickups or SUVs for a variety of reasons that has nothing to do with need. It's a free society so pick your mode of transport, but somehow we got by all those years before pickups became the big sellers (24% of Ford profits over the last couple years) and SUVs were invented.... and most of the world still gets by. And remember the shift in the 70's to smaller cars (often imports)? Did large groups just stop building, camping, boating, etc.? That's why I made my San Francisco comment.

My father worked in the automobile industry retiring three years ago. He sold his GM stock recently and bought Toyota for a reason (and I don't think he was very happy about it). To think the US automobile industry (following Americans true wants or not) is a mess is not debatable. That putting their faith on far future fuel cells instead of hybrids now (and from the films perspective electrics - 'cause somehow these are all exclusive) is but one rather large sign.

I agree with you on diesel though.

 

[floydenheimer]

<---- Proud Prius owner! It's like a computer on wheels, it's wonderful. I would go full electric if there was an option, but I don't have $100k burning a hole in my pocket for a Tesla roadster. Supposedly Tesla motors is developing an electric SUV right now, environmentalist soccer moms rejoice!

There's a ton of misinformation out there about hybrids. Most of it being spread by the same people that offed the electric vehicle.

Quote:

I think hybrids are great. I'm still deeply in love with my RX-7, but would seriously consider leasing one. Don't know if I'd buy, since I'd hate to see the repair bill for the regenerative brakes or a new battery pack. Also, I think in another car generation or two, they'll wring more mileage out of them.

There hasn't been any reported failures of regen brakes or battery packs. There was a japanese prius taxi (1st gen.) that had around 300k miles on it and was still using the original battery. Toyota traded him a new prius straight up for it so they could study his high mileage Prius. You're spot on about the next gen. Prius- the 08 or 09 prius will feature a lithium battery that will give it around 100 mpg and the engine will be supercharged. The battery will provide the power up to about 55 mph, then the gas engine will assist beyond that.

Quote:

I just wish they brought out more hybrids that actually looked like a regular car. Most of the ones that I've seen seem to be designed with bubbles and the Jetsons in mind.

It's called a Honda Civic hybrid, they look completely "normal." This is one reason why I didn't get a Civic too. My prius has a ton more cargo capacity thanks to the liftback design and fold-down seats. I have transported many different pieces of furniture in my prius, it's a very versatile car. The Camry is also now offered as a hybrid, as well as a Lexus SUV and a Lexus luxury sedan (performance hybrids).

 

[nabwong]

My first car if i ever get one will be a hybrid or an electric one. Well, if they make a solar one by then, that's even better.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

More than 10% of the population owns a horse, or a trailer or a boat or construction equipment?

Nope. But throw in all the people who have long commutes, live in cold climates, do very little driving, do lots of driving, do lots of long ranged driving, and/or live in areas without the necessary infrastructure to support electric cars and it's well above 10% of the population.

But really, for all the things that Ingo addressed, electric/diesel-electric hybrid tech would do great if battery technology ever gets up to the challenge.

Quote:

There hasn't been any reported failures of regen brakes or battery packs. There was a japanese prius taxi (1st gen.) that had around 300k miles on it and was still using the original battery.

The Prius' charge/discharge cycle is easy on it's batteries compared to electric cars and is very unlikely to destroy the battery during the lifespan of the car. It's a different story for electric car battery packs.