Which part of the frequency spectrum is responsible for "soundstage" and "imaging"?
Apr 19, 2018 at 3:48 PM Post #61 of 69
I think you're restating my point?
No, you said, "there's no guarantee that the frequency response of L + R is the same as L - R". I did not agree. The resulting cancellation effects in a room are dependent on many things, and in headphones there are no cancellation effects. But frequency dependent cancellations are not the same as a difference in FR. I know it seems picky, but understanding the difference is fairly important.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 4:19 PM Post #62 of 69
No, you said, "there's no guarantee that the frequency response of L + R is the same as L - R". I did not agree. The resulting cancellation effects in a room are dependent on many things, and in headphones there are no cancellation effects. But frequency dependent cancellations are not the same as a difference in FR. I know it seems picky, but understanding the difference is fairly important.

The specific post was about inverting the polarity of one floorstanding speaker in a stereo pair (really who ever inverts headphone polarity). I agree the FR of the *given speaker* won't change, but what's the point of worrying about that as I don't usually sit right up against the speaker when I listen…
 
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Apr 19, 2018 at 6:25 PM Post #64 of 69
Is it still mono from 2 speakers :wink:
You're going to think I'm picking on you...but really not.

There are issues with mono from more than one speaker. Legacy mono material was mixed on a single speaker, usually in front of the mix position. Playing that material on more than one speaker, none of which are located directly in front of the listener, changes the mix perspective and no longer represents the original well at all. Additionally, identical signals from multiple speakers set up zillions of small frequency dependent nulls around the room in what's known as a Rayleigh distribution, so the entire spectral and spatial representation of the signal becomes highly position dependent. Signals arriving at each ear are no longer identical, and no longer comprised of a direct arrival of a single transducer. That corrupts "mono", though it's certainly not stereo either. Remember, one of two-channel stereo's biggest failings is the inability to create a hard "phantom center" for any listener not located along a center line perpendicular to the speakers in a acoustically symmetrical room, and even then, both ears hearing both speakers undermines the phantom center image.

Some express a preference for two-speaker (or more!) mono, citing a more satisfying room-filling perspective. And that can be true, but it's also a "false" perspective, so I guess take your pick as long as you know what you're getting.

I agree with Bigshot, mono on one speaker is the way to go. Fortunately for film fans, old films with Academy mono soundtracks played via Dolby ProLogic (settings other than "Music" mode), play from the center channel. So, if your AVR defaults to PLII, problem solved.

And (this one's for you, Bigshot), mono acoustic recordings on a mono acoustic gramophone are often shockingly good. There's a complimentary characteristic of the recording horn and reproducing horn that really shouldn't work, but somehow does.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 6:51 PM Post #65 of 69
You're going to think I'm picking on you...but really not.

There are issues with mono from more than one speaker. Legacy mono material was mixed on a single speaker, usually in front of the mix position. Playing that material on more than one speaker, none of which are located directly in front of the listener, changes the mix perspective and no longer represents the original well at all. Additionally, identical signals from multiple speakers set up zillions of small frequency dependent nulls around the room in what's known as a Rayleigh distribution, so the entire spectral and spatial representation of the signal becomes highly position dependent. Signals arriving at each ear are no longer identical, and no longer comprised of a direct arrival of a single transducer. That corrupts "mono", though it's certainly not stereo either. Remember, one of two-channel stereo's biggest failings is the inability to create a hard "phantom center" for any listener not located along a center line perpendicular to the speakers in a acoustically symmetrical room, and even then, both ears hearing both speakers undermines the phantom center image.

Some express a preference for two-speaker (or more!) mono, citing a more satisfying room-filling perspective. And that can be true, but it's also a "false" perspective, so I guess take your pick as long as you know what you're getting.

I agree with Bigshot, mono on one speaker is the way to go. Fortunately for film fans, old films with Academy mono soundtracks played via Dolby ProLogic (settings other than "Music" mode), play from the center channel. So, if your AVR defaults to PLII, problem solved.

And (this one's for you, Bigshot), mono acoustic recordings on a mono acoustic gramophone are often shockingly good. There's a complimentary characteristic of the recording horn and reproducing horn that really shouldn't work, but somehow does.
I was being facetious. ..interesting read though
 
Apr 20, 2018 at 8:02 AM Post #66 of 69
I've always assumed that I liked sounds coming from one source simply because it was providing 100% coherent position cues, while stereo often doesn't even bother to do panning with more than loudness between channels. so while it's nicer to have a "field" of sound locations, the brain can't help but pick on a few issues here and there.
but I admit that I have absolutely nothing to back up that assumption. also on speakers I somehow seem to be better in abx for small audio changes when using only 1 speaker. but that seems even more logical to me, as it means a significant simplification in sound.
 
Apr 20, 2018 at 8:05 AM Post #67 of 69
Apr 20, 2018 at 8:20 AM Post #68 of 69
also on speakers I somehow seem to be better in abx for small audio changes when using only 1 speaker. but that seems even more logical to me, as it means a significant simplification in sound.
Sound coming from one speaker only means maximum perceptual separation between direct sound (not diffuse soundfield at all) and early reflections (somewhat diffuse sound field) + reverberation (totally diffuse soundfield). Cocktail party effect does the rest.
 

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