[EricP]

I have to say that I posted a thread like this about a month ago and came to the conclusion that the RS-1 was what I wanted ideally for sound, but I was worried about comfort.

I now have the RS-1 and I can say with confidence that it will make the music that you and I enjoy sound great. Be aware that generally even though the level of technical ability of the players is very high, the level of technical ability of the producers is generally not, and you will get annoyed occasionally by the poor recordings and mastering.

As far as comfort, with the headband bent to fit my head, the RS-1, with stock bowl pads, is not an uncomfortable headphone. They are very light and if bent properly will just sit on your ears and not put any pressure on them.

Anyway, in my opinion, having heard the SR-225, 325, and 325i, the RS-1 is very worth saving up for. The RS-2 is supposed to be nearly as good, and is lower in price. However, if you buy used, you can generally get the RS-1 for under $500! Only $200 more than the SR-325i is more than worth the price of entry in my opinion.

 

[kramer5150]

My suggestions
MS2
SR225
DT880
K240s (if youre budget is a little tight)

 

[canloader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest Consider the Beyer dt990's. They are a good alternative to Grado for rock, not quite as fast, but with way more bass and they are comfortable too! - augustwest

Yes, yes. I second the DT990. The heavy guitar riffs just "warm-up" and come through without sounding harsh. Which means you can turn it up!
yEa!

 

[mojo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I really like the DT880, it is balanced sounding, has good speed and extension. It needs a very powerful amplifier though.

That's really what I'm looking for I think. People always say the bass is excellent on DT880s, fast and deep. You need that when the double bass pedal kicks in

They always get favorable comments when it comes to vocals too.

Considering the price of the 880, it sounds like I'd be better off getting those and a better amplifier, rather than shelling out the extra on RS1s (which might not suit anyway.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer The Sony SA1000 and 5000 are my current favorites for metal, they have a detail and resolving power to pull apart the complex music and show you every instrument and note that is unique in the dynamic headphone world IMO.

I'll check some reviews of the SA5000s then. How is the bass on those things? I'm off to Japan next month so might be able to pick some up cheap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I'd also recommend ditching the OBH11 for something as cheap as a mint or go-vibe, PM fewtch about what that upgrade would be like.

Can you recommend anywhere I can buy those in the UK? Google isn't turning up much. I know one end of a soldering iron from the other too, so perhaps I could build something.

What do you think of the X-Cans MK1, or Bada PH-1, or G&W TW-J1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricP even though the level of technical ability of the players is very high, the level of technical ability of the producers is generally not

All too true. I suppose you can never have a single set of cans for everything.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer Grados can sound good with this kind of music, but they also have their problems, in that their sound is so overly colored that while it enhances some albums, others will sound much worse.

Some people would strongly disagree that the RS-1's are "overly colored" as you like to put it. Colored to a degree, yes, but then every headphone is colored in one way or another, just pick your flavor.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Some people would strongly disagree that the RS-1's are "overly colored" as you like to put it. Colored to a degree, yes, but then every headphone is colored in one way or another, just pick your flavor.

Well not really. 'Neutral' is really the opposite to 'Coloured', so extremely neutral sounding 'phones aren't coloured!

 

[J-Pak]

Bass on the SA5000 is very thin. Does have good extension though

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed Well not really. 'Neutral' is really the opposite to 'Coloured', so extremely neutral sounding 'phones aren't coloured!

Neutral compared to what?

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Neutral compared to what?

well the definition of 'Coloured' is: An audible "signature" with which a reproducing system adds to all signals passing through it. The bass boost found in some portable CD player, PCDP, units is an example of purposeful coloration added.

Definition of 'Neutral': Free from colouration. A reproduction of sound that is untainted by the component(s) the signal passes thru. Opposite of “colored”, “smeared”, or “tainted”

I realise its stating the obvious, but isn't that answering your question? I'm not of great enough knowledge but are there completely neutral 'phones about?

 

[C38368]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed well the definition of 'Coloured' is: An audible "signature" with which a reproducing system adds to all signals passing through it. The bass boost found in some portable CD player, PCDP, units is an example of purposeful coloration added. Definition of 'Neutral': Free from colouration. A reproduction of sound that is untainted by the component(s) the signal passes thru. Opposite of “colored”, “smeared”, or “tainted” I realise its stating the obvious, but isn't that answering your question? I'm not of great enough knowledge but are there completely neutral 'phones about?

From a strictly literal or technical standpoint, I can only assume that this is correct.

But what is neutral? Absence of colouration, we're told.
So what is colouration? Absence of neutrality.
It just spirals away from there, and makes a fine case for trusting your own hearing (after all, what you perceive as neutral may well be coloured to someone else).

That was my first thought when I read elnero's post, at any rate.

Addendum~ That, and the fact that there's really no way to measure a baseline to even arrive at what "neutral" is for any given piece of sound. Or: how do we know that the baseline we have for "neutral" is correct to begin with.

 

[Chri5peed]

Well, by saying 'I was stating the obvious' is looking at it from a technical standpoint. You can't and you shouldn't really start throwing opinions about as if they were the gospel truth.

Its all in the ear of the beholder!

Thinking more about it, I doubt there are many, if any 'phones which don't sound coloured to at least some people? Some will be more than others though.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed well the definition of 'Coloured' is: An audible "signature" with which a reproducing system adds to all signals passing through it. The bass boost found in some portable CD player, PCDP, units is an example of purposeful coloration added. Definition of 'Neutral': Free from colouration. A reproduction of sound that is untainted by the component(s) the signal passes thru. Opposite of “colored”, “smeared”, or “tainted” I realise its stating the obvious, but isn't that answering your question? I'm not of great enough knowledge but are there completely neutral 'phones about?

But what are you using for a baseline of neutrality? Is it a ruler flat frequency response? Because I don't think that alone can be used to define neutrality. I've heard some pretty darn flat speakers that were boring and uninivolving. So then what defines "neutral" when we're talking about audio gear?

Every component in a piece of gear is going to add something or "color" the signal in one way or another. Another factor is we all hear differently and have different expectations of what things should sound like based on personal preferences and experiences.

I've heard some argue that neutral means as close to the recording as possible but I would argue that unless you were at the actual event you have no idea of what it is actually supposed to sound like. And even if you were there sonic memory is notoriously short. Again, this comes down to basing "neutrality" on personal expectations of what we "think" an instrument should sound like.

So given the above the point I was making is that while one person may find the RS-1's "colored" another may think they are "neutral". Neither word has an absolute meaning because every component has colorations and neutrality can really only be defined by the user.

 

[C38368]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed Thinking more about it, I doubt there are many, if any 'phones which don't sound coloured to at least some people? Some will be more than others though.

My thoughts exactly.

And frankly, I'm not bright enough (no pun) to really tell the difference--or at least to care. I figure that if I like the sound, I like the can... colouration or no

And I'm also having a fun time this afternoon playing around with those dependent definitions. Yeah, I'm weird like that

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by C38368 And I'm also having a fun time this afternoon playing around with those dependent definitions. Yeah, I'm weird like that

Same here.

I found a site with loads of definitions, this thread is perfect for exercising my new found knowledge!

...and nero I was only stating it factually, as we've decided and everyone knows its all down to peoples opinions.

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Well I though I would jump into a good argument and but my own spin on things. Or should I say COLOR things with my view..

All headphones are to some degree colored. We can’t exactly reproduce “a sound experience” exactly, so headphones make their best attempt at it. Generally headphones that are more neutral in my opinion aren’t that well liked. Except for the minority of people that like that type of presentation. Although most of us here like the idea of upgrading your headphones to something that sounds better. Better many times means either means different or closer to a sound presentation we want to hear(color/neutral).

I have found in the upper levels of headphones. Generally headphones over 300 dollars, or for the Grado over $600 dollars(rs-1s), it has more to do with what people want to hear and less to do with what reproduces the sound most accurately. I would also argue that most people prefer to have some coloring of there music. An example would be that, there are many people here who like more bass then was intended in the original recording. (ps-1s, HD650s)

I guess that most want some degree of coloring in the headphones and it is choosing which coloring suits us the best. I also question that a quick decay headphone such as the UE-10s or the SA5000s isn’t accurate representation of the sound. I ague maybe most prefer a slower decay when listening to music.

As for the Rs-1, I would say that they are a more colored headphone then average, but I find it hard to say there a “neutral” headphone out there. Even with the likes of the Grado HPs or UE-10s.