[Articnoise]

HE6SE better than Arya wow, surprising.

I don’t know about HE6se, but The HE6 is really good if you match it with the right system and mod them a little.

 

[bagwell359]

I don’t know about HE6se, but The HE6 is really good if you match it with the right system and mod them a little.

There are two types of HE-6. 4 screw and 6 screw. The 4 screw is more mythical since it was first and is less common - its also quite bright. We are talking for both early HE-6 as being about 10 years old. The HE-6se does not possess the same eye closing intense bass as the originals. But its more balanced and has better timbre overall. It rings less. It's more comfortable. And a new one at $699 (for about 10 days) is a better long term deal than a ~10 yr old HE-6 at $950.

The HE6se is better than my sainted HE-500 and in a rough tie with the Arya. It needs some mods and one key EQ at ~1750 Hz., but the two originals need more mods and more EQ.

BTW if you've only heard the HE6se with stock pads and cable, then you'll think I'm crazy (because they sound veiled and sort of crappy). They like Ether Angled pads and nice copper O2 free cables. Screens off helps, fuzzor doesn't (or very minimal). Lots of HE-6 owners were quick to reject them. I agree the HE5se was a total failure, but the 6se is in a far higher class, and stands quite well on its own.

 

[DelsFan]

Thanks for the recommendation.

I was expecting some people to say this. I'll simply say I'm not interested in expensive source gear at this time, and I tend to trust the measurements when it comes to DACs and amps.

Not trying to start a debate here. Maybe I'll post something about it in sound science when I do my review. I just mentioned the THX so that people know I have enough power to drive the less efficient planars.

1) How do you like your Abyss 1266 Phi TC headphones, now that you've had them long enough to break them in and become comfortable/familiar with their sound with your equipment, and a large selection of music?

2) No one talks about the MySphere headphones much; I demoed a pair for a week in my home, using my Pass Labs HPA-1 headphone amp, and at a friend's house using both my amp and his DIY Dynahi (meticulously built, and it sounded a bit better). There were a lot of things to love about the MySpheres. I'm not saying they are the greatest but (removing from consideration the Raals and all electrostats), so, considering headphones which can be driven by conventional amplifiers, I'd suggest for many people the MySpheres would be the first choice of a lot of people when comparing them to Abyss AB-1266s, HE1000s, Ether2s, Focal Utopias, Meze Empyreans. Are they my favorite? I'm not sure, however, in a group with these other five headphones, let 100 people listen to all six headphones, with complimentary amplification for each set of headphones, and I'll suggest the MySpheres will be the top choice more than 20% of the time. Or, one of the top two choices, out of six, over half the time... There are caveats, but if you are looking for a TOTL headhone for use with "conventional" solid-state or tube-based amplification, you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't audition the MySpheres. (Call the US rep, give them a deposit, they'll mail you the headphones; listen, send them back, your deposit gets refunded.)

3) I'll try and make this brief, but will fail. Amplification (quality, and synergy) makes a huge amount of difference when enjoying/comparing headphones; and simply using an amplifier with a large output doesn't solve all problems (make all headphones sound their best). While comparing the above five TOTL headphones coupled with $1000 to $2000 amplifiers (inexpensive, by flagship standards) is useful because many people have amplifiers such as these on hand, it seems when determining which TOTL headphone is "best", or great, compared to some other TOTL headphones, one would need to use TOTL amplification in order to come to a sensible conclusion.

Stated another way: if you aren't using a TOTL amplifier that also pairs well with the TOTL headphones you are (trying to review/analyze), then are you wasting your time?

An analogy: If one is comparing sport sedans, let's say the crop consists of the Alfa Romeo Gulia, BMW 3-series, Infinity G39 (or whatever their latest model is), Mercedes C-Class, Porsche Panamera... that's enough... a comparison is useless if not considering which engine the car being auditioned has. Each of these cars offers a lot; each has their flaws, or (Alfa owners unite) at the least, quirks. But audition the Gulia with the Quadroporte engine and each of the other cars with their base engine, and almost everyone would agree the Gulia with the Quadroporte engine (which demands what, a $30,000 premium on a $45,000 car?) would, with little dissent, best the other four cars.

Take any single car, Gulia Quatroporte, BMW M3, AMG Mercedes, or Panamera GTS, vs the base models of the competition, and whichever car you chose with the "top" engine/chassis will be the clear winner in 95% of the cases (for 95% of the people, regardless of personal taste). Chose any single car with engine/chassis upgrades costing in excess of 50% of the original price of that car, and you'll get a car that is in a completely different class of car than the one you originally started with.

By the same token, take any one of the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs, HE1000s, Utopias, and Empyreans, and add in the MySpheres (because this is my post!). (We'll leave out the Ether 2s - I owned them and like them a lot at $2K, but they aren't quite as good as headphones costing twice as much!) Pair your headphone choice with a top amplifier: Auris Audio Nirvana ($6K), Linear Tube Audio MZ3 ($4K with upgraded tubes), Pass Labs HPA-1 ($3.5K), Cayin 300-B ($4K), Nimbus Audio US4+ ($4K?), to name just a few. Now, compare your choice against eadh of the remaining four headphones paired with good amps costing (at most) half as much, like the Violectric V281 ($2K), Felks Audio Euphoria ($2K), Schiit Mjolnir ($1K), or any of 25 other good (great, for the price) amplifiers. Regardless of which headphone I own, or like in general, I'll like whichever of the five headphones that is paired with the TOTL amplifier better than any of the other four which are paired with the lesser priced amplifiers.

What's my point? Do I even have one?
1) amplification is critical when auditioning, comparing, and owning headphones
2) there are a million combinations, so what do we do?
3) To me, articles (or posts/reviews) taking one set of headphones and comparing the sound when using four or five different amplifiers is useful. OF COURSE, synergy matters - the trick is being able to try several headphones with several amplifiers.

What to do? For several years I've been trying to decide which TOTL setup to employ, cost is (nearly) no concern since I've ditched my two-channel system. MAYBE, I'm just going to bit the bullet and buy "something". "Anything."
I've been to five or six headphone meets where I had the chance to listen to several electrostats, I've owned the Ether2s and Oppo PM-2s as stop-gap measures, demoed the (well-liked) MySpheres. I've tried these (and other) headphones at meets, paired with other amplifers, and own the Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier. There are still a million (seemingly) options.

Over the last three years I've purchased a nice rack system and high-end interconnects (and cords), installed a pretty good internet system (including EtherREGEN, which I highly recommend) and installed a dedicated power line which powers only my "high-end" power conditioner. Yet, I still haven't made my (temporary) end-game headphone and amplifier purchase. I'm just about ready (I could do it today) to purchase the Meze Empyreans, because I read they are (extremely) enjoyable in many many respects, and a MicroZotl MZ3 amplifier (which gets me tubes which I desire, and it gets rave reviews for having an incredibly black background while being more accurate and less lush than many other tube-based amplifiers). Just pick a combo and try it.

Will the Empyrean/MZ3 pairing be the best non-electrostatic, non-direct drive (Raal), combination I could possibly purchase? Who knows, but I'll suggest this combo will be better than any of the other four headphones paired with any sub-$2000 amplifier. From reading many reviews, the Empyrean/MZ3 combo will be enjoyable, it will offer sound quality better than any of my (non-head-fi) friends will have ever heard. Most importantly (?), I already know the combo has some synergy, because they each use the other's product at audio shows, where they are trying to show their product at its best.

I think I'm going to:
Just do something; after three years of reading and research I've decided its time to enjoy something, even if it is only 99% as good as some other combination it would take me another five years to discern.

 

[paradoxper]

Why are you excluding the SR1a? Whatever "conventional' drive is as a qualifier.
As the SR1a outperforms your superlative TOTL with its interface with the many 100w amplifiers on earth.

Have you heard all the aforementioned headphones listed?

Car analogies have zero ****ing place in audio!

What exactly is and or makes complimentary amplification -- especially for each class of headphone?
I mean, you throw out money, money, money as your qualifier without any regard to context of circuit design, topology, parts selection, amongst, say, impedance matching or power output. Moar money, moar better?

I'd like to think you have a deeper understanding of the mechanics of amplification but my gut says you don't.

It would help me to understand this context more fully or deeper knowing if your knowledge level is clueless or not.

Of course I don't mean to impede on your parameters if it's a simple speculative form of entertainment in question form.

 

[T3RIAD]

1) How do you like your Abyss 1266 Phi TC headphones, now that you've had them long enough to break them in and become comfortable/familiar with their sound with your equipment, and a large selection of music?

2) No one talks about the MySphere headphones much; I demoed a pair for a week in my home, using my Pass Labs HPA-1 headphone amp, and at a friend's house using both my amp and his DIY Dynahi (meticulously built, and it sounded a bit better). There were a lot of things to love about the MySpheres. I'm not saying they are the greatest but (removing from consideration the Raals and all electrostats), so, considering headphones which can be driven by conventional amplifiers, I'd suggest for many people the MySpheres would be the first choice of a lot of people when comparing them to Abyss AB-1266s, HE1000s, Ether2s, Focal Utopias, Meze Empyreans. Are they my favorite? I'm not sure, however, in a group with these other five headphones, let 100 people listen to all six headphones, with complimentary amplification for each set of headphones, and I'll suggest the MySpheres will be the top choice more than 20% of the time. Or, one of the top two choices, out of six, over half the time... There are caveats, but if you are looking for a TOTL headhone for use with "conventional" solid-state or tube-based amplification, you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't audition the MySpheres. (Call the US rep, give them a deposit, they'll mail you the headphones; listen, send them back, your deposit gets refunded.)

3) I'll try and make this brief, but will fail. Amplification (quality, and synergy) makes a huge amount of difference when enjoying/comparing headphones; and simply using an amplifier with a large output doesn't solve all problems (make all headphones sound their best). While comparing the above five TOTL headphones coupled with $1000 to $2000 amplifiers (inexpensive, by flagship standards) is useful because many people have amplifiers such as these on hand, it seems when determining which TOTL headphone is "best", or great, compared to some other TOTL headphones, one would need to use TOTL amplification in order to come to a sensible conclusion.

Stated another way: if you aren't using a TOTL amplifier that also pairs well with the TOTL headphones you are (trying to review/analyze), then are you wasting your time?

An analogy: If one is comparing sport sedans, let's say the crop consists of the Alfa Romeo Gulia, BMW 3-series, Infinity G39 (or whatever their latest model is), Mercedes C-Class, Porsche Panamera... that's enough... a comparison is useless if not considering which engine the car being auditioned has. Each of these cars offers a lot; each has their flaws, or (Alfa owners unite) at the least, quirks. But audition the Gulia with the Quadroporte engine and each of the other cars with their base engine, and almost everyone would agree the Gulia with the Quadroporte engine (which demands what, a $30,000 premium on a $45,000 car?) would, with little dissent, best the other four cars.

Take any single car, Gulia Quatroporte, BMW M3, AMG Mercedes, or Panamera GTS, vs the base models of the competition, and whichever car you chose with the "top" engine/chassis will be the clear winner in 95% of the cases (for 95% of the people, regardless of personal taste). Chose any single car with engine/chassis upgrades costing in excess of 50% of the original price of that car, and you'll get a car that is in a completely different class of car than the one you originally started with.

By the same token, take any one of the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs, HE1000s, Utopias, and Empyreans, and add in the MySpheres (because this is my post!). (We'll leave out the Ether 2s - I owned them and like them a lot at $2K, but they aren't quite as good as headphones costing twice as much!) Pair your headphone choice with a top amplifier: Auris Audio Nirvana ($6K), Linear Tube Audio MZ3 ($4K with upgraded tubes), Pass Labs HPA-1 ($3.5K), Cayin 300-B ($4K), Nimbus Audio US4+ ($4K?), to name just a few. Now, compare your choice against eadh of the remaining four headphones paired with good amps costing (at most) half as much, like the Violectric V281 ($2K), Felks Audio Euphoria ($2K), Schiit Mjolnir ($1K), or any of 25 other good (great, for the price) amplifiers. Regardless of which headphone I own, or like in general, I'll like whichever of the five headphones that is paired with the TOTL amplifier better than any of the other four which are paired with the lesser priced amplifiers.

What's my point? Do I even have one?
1) amplification is critical when auditioning, comparing, and owning headphones
2) there are a million combinations, so what do we do?
3) To me, articles (or posts/reviews) taking one set of headphones and comparing the sound when using four or five different amplifiers is useful. OF COURSE, synergy matters - the trick is being able to try several headphones with several amplifiers.

What to do? For several years I've been trying to decide which TOTL setup to employ, cost is (nearly) no concern since I've ditched my two-channel system. MAYBE, I'm just going to bit the bullet and buy "something". "Anything."
I've been to five or six headphone meets where I had the chance to listen to several electrostats, I've owned the Ether2s and Oppo PM-2s as stop-gap measures, demoed the (well-liked) MySpheres. I've tried these (and other) headphones at meets, paired with other amplifers, and own the Pass Labs HPA-1 amplifier. There are still a million (seemingly) options.

Over the last three years I've purchased a nice rack system and high-end interconnects (and cords), installed a pretty good internet system (including EtherREGEN, which I highly recommend) and installed a dedicated power line which powers only my "high-end" power conditioner. Yet, I still haven't made my (temporary) end-game headphone and amplifier purchase. I'm just about ready (I could do it today) to purchase the Meze Empyreans, because I read they are (extremely) enjoyable in many many respects, and a MicroZotl MZ3 amplifier (which gets me tubes which I desire, and it gets rave reviews for having an incredibly black background while being more accurate and less lush than many other tube-based amplifiers). Just pick a combo and try it.

Will the Empyrean/MZ3 pairing be the best non-electrostatic, non-direct drive (Raal), combination I could possibly purchase? Who knows, but I'll suggest this combo will be better than any of the other four headphones paired with any sub-$2000 amplifier. From reading many reviews, the Empyrean/MZ3 combo will be enjoyable, it will offer sound quality better than any of my (non-head-fi) friends will have ever heard. Most importantly (?), I already know the combo has some synergy, because they each use the other's product at audio shows, where they are trying to show their product at its best.

I think I'm going to:
Just do something; after three years of reading and research I've decided its time to enjoy something, even if it is only 99% as good as some other combination it would take me another five years to discern.

1. Abyss 1266 have become my favorite of the four headphones I own. I'm still planning to write a detailed review at some point; I'll get around to it. But for now, I can definitely say I choose the Abyss more often than any of my other TOTL headphones.

3. Maybe I'll make a post about this too in Sound Science. For now, I would simply say a better analogy for amplification would be the fuel pump in a car. It's an essential component, and the car won't work without it. But a simple $300 device can do the job perfectly. Spending more money on the fuel pump won't improve the performance of the car.

 

[smodtactical]

Yes, a number of times. it's not better than the HFM HE-6se or HEKv2, so it really doesn't fare well as a SoTA contender. For its price its likely the best can out there.

So I guess you feel the HE1000SE is a big step above Arya?

 

[bagwell359]

So I guess you feel the HE1000SE is a big step above Arya?

Yes.

 

[adydula]

D8000 Pro.

 

[silversurfer616]

D8000 Pro.

Stunning headphone indeed.

 

[HBen]

There seem to be many candidates:

• Meze Empyrean
• Audeze LCD-4
• Abyss Phi 1266 TC
• Hifiman Susvara
• Hifiman HE1000

After owning some of them and having heard all of them - plus pretty much everything that was mentioned in this thread it seems quite obvious to me (and many others alike) that there are actually only two real kings of planars ... The Abyss or Susvara. All the others just cannot keep up with those two which are on a similar level as the 009's. Next in line would be an Abyss Diana (any variant), then probably the HE1000SE.

If you can live with the weight and fit of the big Abyss and have the right gear to give it some warmth go with the Abyss, otherwise the Susvara is a headphone that is difficult to beat in its sum of qualities - and that includes comfort as well . Needs a beefy amp though ^^

 

[HBen]

Well, I am not going to buy a headphone amplifier for a headphone, so the Abyss is not an option for me.

I did not like the Susvara (the mids sounded off to me).
LCD-4 and Hifiman HE-1000 just sounded wrong to with that soft sound.

What other planar would you guys recommened?

If you found the LCD4 and HE1000 too soft you probably won't find the Empyrean or Final any better ...

May I ask what you paired the Susvara's with?

 

[adydula]

I have Empys and D8000 Pros...the D8000 pros here surpass the Empys....its all about your listening preferences...never an absolute for me...they all are great.

 

[TDinCali]

Oh I understand tubes can sound different. I'm just not really interested in exploring that right now.

It does surprise me that people have said my solid state amp, at 3.5 W / 50 ohm, 0.8 W / 200 ohm, might be inadequate. Just doing the basic calculations, that should drive the LCD-4 (97 dB / mW, 200 ohm) to 127 dB, or the Susvara (83 dB / mW, 60 ohm) to 118 dB.

Maybe people are looking at the single-ended specs for the THX 789? I'll be using the balanced output, which has four times the power.


Anyway, for those who say it matters, just assume I'll be using solid-state amplification and a neutral DAC.

Just because it's loud doesn't mean it's good.

Frankly if you're spending this level of funds on cans and expect a TOTL experience with a mid-range amp you're wasting your money on the cans. Get the Arya and call it a day. Your amp will make everything sound relatively thin. The Utopia's sound decent on everything but the 1266 and Susvara don't. You'll be scratching your head wondering why people make such a fuss about the Susvara and 1266 because to you it won't sound much better. Your dac and amp will matter more to get that last 30%. That being said, since you listen to music at low levels and perhaps different genres from me your taste may/will be different. good luck!

 

[adydula]

This IMO is typical thinking that you have to spend mega-bucks on an amp to have TOTL performance. This argument and discussion has been around for ages and will alwayas be! LOL.

If your amp is well designed and can deliver the power cleanly to drive a headphone to 118 / 127 db your doing just fine. IMO.

I had a pair of Susvaras here and drove them very well with a Schiit Jot 2...and compared to a high power Soundaware P1 amp....they sounded pretty much the same.

IMO this is the achillies heel of the Susvaras....when there are other great choices that are not so dependent on mega-watts.

 

[number1sixerfan]

After owning some of them and having heard all of them - plus pretty much everything that was mentioned in this thread it seems quite obvious to me (and many others alike) that there are actually only two real kings of planars ... The Abyss or Susvara. All the others just cannot keep up with those two which are on a similar level as the 009's. Next in line would be an Abyss Diana (any variant), then probably the HE1000SE.

If you can live with the weight and fit of the big Abyss and have the right gear to give it some warmth go with the Abyss, otherwise the Susvara is a headphone that is difficult to beat in its sum of qualities - and that includes comfort as well . Needs a beefy amp though ^^

Without referencing all of the cans mentioned in this thread, I broadly agree with this. TC/Susvara/009 are all on the same very top level. I'd add the Sr1a as well, although a bit unique and potentially not for everyone. Having owned a lot of the TOTL, they all stand out more than the rest imho.

Also agree with the last statement on the Abyss v. Susvara. And even better if you can actually swing both, as they're really great compliments to each other.

------

I haven't heard the D8000 Pro, but would be interested in doing so. It's just so odd that I hear some people swear by it and others dismiss it quickly after hearing it. That's normal for all cans to a degree but seems to be the case with them a bit more.