[cfranchi]

BTW if you've only heard the HE6se with stock pads and cable, then you'll think I'm crazy (because they sound veiled and sort of crappy). They like Ether Angled pads and nice copper O2 free cables. Screens off helps, fuzzor doesn't (or very minimal).

Veiled and crappy ? That’s not my experience, what Ether pads bring vs stock pads ?

I also try to removed the grills but don’t find so much differences, soundstage was not specially bigger if not the same.

 

[Dynamo5561]

I have been collecting the top headphones for each type of driver technology. So far I have:

• Focal Utopia - Dynamic
• Stax SR-009S - E-stat
• RAAL Requisite SR1a - Ribbon

It's been quite fun listening to these. All are amazing, and each has it's own strengths. All I need now to round it out is a top-of-the-line planar magnetic headphone.

However, while the other three are fairly undisputed, I'm having trouble deciding which planar to buy. There seem to be many candidates:

• Meze Empyrean
• Audeze LCD-4
• Abyss Phi 1266 TC
• Hifiman Susvara
• Hifiman HE1000

For each of these I can find both good and bad reviews. There seems to be no consensus on which is best.

So I'm asking here, which headphone do you think is the King of Planars? Which one will round out my collection? I don't necessarily mean "which would you buy if you could only buy one," and not even "which is the best headphone." I want to know which headphone best exemplifies the strengths of planar magnetic technology, relative to the other three I have.

Once it is decided and I have saved up enough to buy my fourth and final headphone, I will post a detailed review comparing all four TOTL headphones.

EDIT - I actually posted this in the newbie section a while ago, but it didn't get any replies. Hope it's okay to post it here now.

Based on what you already have I would say the Susvara would fit very well into the selection. Contrary to the Hifiman's the other listed headphones sound more thick and are more suited for modern music while the Hifiman's excel at accoustical music. Maybe the 1266 could be considered as well as it sits somewhere in the middle and also shows what planars sound like. But still I see the 1266 complementary to the Susvara, they don't sound alike. For me personally the prototype of a planar sound can be found in the Quad Era-1.

3) I'll try and make this brief, but will fail. Amplification (quality, and synergy) makes a huge amount of difference when enjoying/comparing headphones; and simply using an amplifier with a large output doesn't solve all problems (make all headphones sound their best). While comparing the above five TOTL headphones coupled with $1000 to $2000 amplifiers (inexpensive, by flagship standards) is useful because many people have amplifiers such as these on hand, it seems when determining which TOTL headphone is "best", or great, compared to some other TOTL headphones, one would need to use TOTL amplification in order to come to a sensible conclusion.

as you said, that's a fail.

 

[bagwell359]

Veiled and crappy ? That’s not my experience, what Ether pads bring vs stock pads ?

I also try to removed the grills but don’t find so much differences, soundstage was not specially bigger if not the same.

Sorry I wrote too hastily. They sound hollow and veiled at the same time. Crappy is too vague.

Ether angled lambskin. There might be better, but I haven't heard it. The wide wide soundstage is more apparent with the he-500. screens alone should be significant. Try wood blocks, finger snaps, and other such things. Should sound cleaner w/o that boxed in sound.

 

[adydula]

Without referencing all of the cans mentioned in this thread, I broadly agree with this. TC/Susvara/009 are all on the same very top level. I'd add the Sr1a as well, although a bit unique and potentially not for everyone. Having owned a lot of the TOTL, they all stand out more than the rest imho.

Also agree with the last statement on the Abyss v. Susvara. And even better if you can actually swing both, as they're really great compliments to each other.

------

I haven't heard the D8000 Pro, but would be interested in doing so. It's just so odd that I hear some people swear by it and others dismiss it quickly after hearing it. That's normal for all cans to a degree but seems to be the case with them a bit more.

If enough folks state its true then it has to be???

:>)

 

[Articnoise]

This IMO is typical thinking that you have to spend mega-bucks on an amp to have TOTL performance. This argument and discussion has been around for ages and will alwayas be! LOL.

If your amp is well designed and can deliver the power cleanly to drive a headphone to 118 / 127 db your doing just fine. IMO.

I had a pair of Susvaras here and drove them very well with a Schiit Jot 2...and compared to a high power Soundaware P1 amp....they sounded pretty much the same.

IMO this is the achillies heel of the Susvaras....when there are other great choices that are not so dependent on mega-watts.

I don't think that you have to spend mega-bucks, but there is a clear difference in sound quality depending on used amp. Well there is a correlation between the price and how good gear sounds like. The correlation is however not total and there are many exceptions. In addition, a lot is ultimately about good synergy and preference.

 

[Sajid Amit]

In case it helps

 

[smodtactical]

In case it helps

Great video Sajid. Have you heard Solitaire P yet?

 

[Sajid Amit]

Great video Sajid. Have you heard Solitaire P yet?

No, mate, unfortunately, not.

 

[smodtactical]

In case it helps

Have you heard the TC with Z10, WA33 or any TOTL tube amp?

 

[buffer]

Given people hear things differently and have different taste I don't think it is possible to pronounce any one headphone as the King of Planars. I can, however, comfortably state my preference. For me, I put the D8000 Pro (after burned in) as the best headphone I have ever heard, planar or otherwise. The D8000 Pro isn't necessarily the funnest headphone, or even the most musical, but it is extremely neutral and handles most genres well. When I listen, i get the feeling i am hearing the sound exactly as it was recorded/mastered. I also like the D8000 which is not as technically good but may be more musical, slightly, due to the low end wallop or punch it packs. Given my preference for neutrality, clarity, and well balanced tonality I still prefer the D8000 Pro.

I also like the Abyss 1266TC quite a bit. It trails behind the D8000 Pro only slightly. To me it is not as neutral and not as revealing. I do, however, slightly prefer the Abyss over the D8000 for orchestral music. Susvara is a good headphone, possibly more refined and more finesse and electrostaticy then the others. But it lacks bite and excitement to me. Also, and I only find this when performing a direct comparison, the Susvara is not as neutral or revealing or clear as the other headphones i mentioned. It almost seemed smeary in comparison to the D8K Pro.

I have experience with many other headphones, both planar and dynamic. I will give a couple of runners up, not all are ribbons or planars. I really like the GoldPlanar GL1200 with silver ribbons. With proper amplification, these headphones give other flagships I mentioned a run for their money. Of course, the downside s they require a speaker amp.

Perhaps my funnest headphone which is a great mix of audiophile and excitement is the Dharma D1000. I also love the Mcintosh for best ported closed headphone. MrSpeakers Ether C is also a terrific headphone if you like forward vocals. I wouldn't claim the sound is neutral. I also really like my Stax L700. I prefer the L700 to the 009 and to the 007Mk2.9s. Utopia is also a great headphone but it was slightly too bright in upper mids at times and has too small of a soundstage.

In my profile i list in detail where I think a variety of headphones I own excel, but I will leave my thoughts with two other headphones that are planar and in my opinion, truly excellent and a great value. The Brainwavz Allara and the Accourstic Research are remarkable and they hold up to the very best at a considerably cheaper price. Would I say they match the very best? Close, but probably not. But as far as value goes, they cannot be beat.

If you'd like more details on my view of the D8K pro you can check out my review on this site.

 

[adydula]

I agree with most of your conclusions @buffer ...

So many good choices out there and their flavor differences are often subtle. Some are more stark.
Depending on your mood, music preference and source quality, they all provide me with stellar performances.

Your statement of hearing the sound exactly as recorded sums up the D8000 Pros exactly for me as well.

When I listened to the Susvaras with a P1 Soundaware amp and other amps, I liked the fit, finish and they were really decent
headphones, but I often thought "Whats the big deal here...for $6,000 ???" I thought they would be way more earth-shattering.

The D8000 Pros for me are my reference set of cans...when I want to hear how it was made, they are the ones.

Pretty decent engineering for a smaller driver as well....

Alex

 

[DelsFan]

Have you heard the TC with Z10, WA33 or any TOTL tube amp?

I have the Z10e for use with my Meze Empyreans and I think it is spectacular.

A friend heard my amplifier at a local headphone meet and ordered a Z10 to pair with the newest Abyss (maybe 1266 TC phi?) headphones - and loves it.

Read preliminary review here

 

[bagwell359]

TOTL amps. There is your pride, competition vs audio friends, showing that challenging sales guy you are a player.

Let's wipe that right out of here (as much as humanely possible).

But lets also do away with the false beliefs of measurement uber alles. In the late 70's many claimed that the Crown 150 and 300 were the best amps evah. Well there were some Marantz amps before and a flood after that put that notion to the torch.

What's left?

Well I can speak for myself only. Class AB amps? All fairly close. FET transistors help? Seems maybe.

Class D and others? Good for a lot of uses, not so sure on SoTA speakers/cans.

Class A - ahh there is a sweet spot. From my first Pass amp (Threshold Stasis 3) to the Bedini 25-25, the amazing Krell KSA series, more Passes, some Int amps from the Far East to the 4 wpc out of the Ragnarok 1. More detail, soundstages seem more stable and also more subtle. That's what I spend money on - not to mention nasty bills from the power company. The Rag 1 is a bit rough in some ways. It's a bit short of the Pass X-150.8 ($4500 and no pre-amp), the pre-amp is curtailed at the far right and left. The highs are not as suave as some. Now there is a new Rag 2 w/ a torodial transformer but just 1 watt of Class A - hmmm.

I've owned some SoTA pieces, listen and listen more. Consider you could live with this for 15 years. Then forget me, ads, publications, sales droids (very much forget them), and your audio pals, and make the call and do the deed.

 

[knorris908]

Gentlemen,

First, to get it out of the way I readily-admit my relative "NOOB" status in regards to TOTL headphones in comparison to what I've only read in this thread alone...
Just in my profile, (I never updated it) it shows: "High-end Audiophile - Beyerdynamics T1 2nd version" so... yeah. I admit my NOOBism, and won't try to hide it. I'm having too much fun learning from all of you to be embarrassed by it.

But I thought that a "fresh perspective" on the earlier "amping" sub-comments from someone who's not had the experiences you've all had might be "entertaining", if nothing else.
(Not including any of my dynamic driver cans for this post.)
I was VERY happy at one time with my Modhouse Argon MKIIs, Sundaras, & GL850s powered by (from least to best) SP200, Asgard 2, A90, then Denafrips Artemis.
Then I got a HEDDPhone One, and it clearly bested all of them. (Except for Argons for "fun" factor with certain tracks.)

Recently I picked up a He6se v2, and ran it off my A90. PLENTY of volume/little overhead. It was "okay", but I say that only because my Artemis amp SOUNDED much better, but just didn't have the power to get the He6se v2 loud enough to enjoy even though it was clearly richer/fuller, & more "3D" in spatial placements.

Then I got a Burson Soloist 3XP - And things got much better. Basically, I got everything that I was missing from my Artemis amp, and THEN some. So now my He6se v2 and HEDDPhone trade blows equally. Each with characteristics in their favor. Primary amongst all was the bass. The He6se v2's bass isn't "more", but it's TIGHT and almost tactile.

Last night I hooked-up the most "janky", temp setup just to start getting my He6se V2 running "with power". "This should be total crap." A DAP 3.5" single-ended into RCA on A90, then RCA out to HK 870 (No choice in the last leg as the HK is SE-only.) My wife isn't allowed in my office while it's hooked up this way as she'll seize with "WTH?" assaulting her sensibilities. But you know what? It sounds GLORIOUS! Yes, I can tell that I'm losing DAC resolution and that there is staging and tuning that's lacking due to the A90's influence, but even so, "Wow". I'll reserve final judgement, but I think my HEDDPhone might just be beaten for top-shelf in my (admittedly limited) stable.

My point in all this is that I don't believe it's "Expensive" or "fancy" amps that make a difference - It's a mix of QUALITY amps outputting high levels of wattage into the ranges that your particular cans respond to. 4 or 6 watts claimed at 16Ohm doesn't seem to mean much to a can that runs at 50Ohm if the amp drops to 1.6 watts at that value. And so yeah, my "THX class" amps Sp200, 789, & A90 all have enough "juice", but they sound so "flat" and stifled that it never sounds better than "generic" with no real highs, lows, or dynamicism (That's a word, right? I'm making it one! It fits.) My path of least resistance, bargain-basement eBay acquisition of a GOOD amp (Though I lose things for this obviously) has easily-bested all my best amps even when preamped with a unit that I know to be sub-par.
(And "Yes" the HEDDPhone sounded great on it too, though I've NEVER felt the need or ability to run it on LOW GAIN before...)

I'm sure many of you are all shaking your heads in pity, I just ask that you be kind. And if this helped anyone struggling with, "To amp, or not to amp?" syndrome, preventing them from getting the most out of the EPIC headphones being bandied-about here, I'll consider this well worth it.