[jochen.schell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dynamic Vs. Balanced Armature - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

Thanks for this interesting link.
I had the super.fi 5 pro discussed in this thread and they were fine.
I did not use them too often because they were very uncomfortable to my ears.
The W3 do sound a lot better than the super.fi's and they are very comfortable to my ears.
After 5 minutes I do forget that I do have something in my ears and am "standing" inside the music - what is a very new and very exciting experience for me.

I can hardly imagine something better, but this might also be because I have nothing to compare, as told before I never owned or even tried full size cans and thought a pair of high end cans could bring me even beyound this W3 experience.

Probably the comfort of full size cans will be the weakest point.
The AD2000 might be the right way from all that I could read about it.

As suggested I will try to listen to cans in a store to get a first impression of dynamics.
Unfortunately it will be impossible to hear (and feel) the AD2000 or the RS-1 in a German store, so I will try the K701 and also the HD650 at least

BTW. Ray (maker of the Mustang) told in a posting that the K701 works very well with his little amp...

I will try to go to a store later today and will keep you informed

Jochen

 

[drj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by myk7000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif rs1. It will give you a different sound. Not so much BETTER as it is DIFFERENT. However the difference is a very good difference. Switching back between my IE8 and RS1 is very pleasing as both have exceptional SQ while being so distinct in their sound signature.

The sound quality of the IE8 isn't in the same league as the RS1 (basing my opinion on my ms-pro). I honestly don't think it's even open for debate. I know there are individual preferences...but still. The IE8s aren't very subtle...

But they are extremely different, i'll give you that

 

[jochen.schell]

I have now been in a shop to hear some phones.
As it was a shop for consumer electronics they did not have a big choice.
At least I was able to hear some senns, up to the HD650

The 650 was the only one that was hearable for me all other I expected as trash

The sound of the 650 was not bad and it also was not too uncomfortable, but I did not like the look and feel of this plastic item.

Unfortunately I was not able to use my iPhone as source and could only hera a pop CD but I doubt if the sound was any better than the W3, from my feeling I would prefer the W3.

Also the soundstage was in no way wider than with the W3, so this would really not be an improvement for me.

I will try to go to a hifi shop later and hopefully can hear at least the K701 there from which I really do expect a wider soundstage

Thanks again for all your help here!

Jochen

 

[drj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen.schell /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have now been in a shop to hear some phones. As it was a shop for consumer electronics they did not have a big choice. At least I was able to hear some senns, up to the HD650 The 650 was the only one that was hearable for me all other I expected as trash The sound of the 650 was not bad and it also was not too uncomfortable, but I did not like the look and feel of this plastic item. Unfortunately I was not able to use my iPhone as source and could only hera a pop CD but I doubt if the sound was any better than the W3, from my feeling I would prefer the W3. Also the soundstage was in no way wider than with the W3, so this would really not be an improvement for me. Jochen

what was the source? and the amp?

The HD650 will sound like crap straight out of your iphone anyway.

it's like speed limiting your Bugatti Veyron to 40mph and complaining it doesn't go as fast as your grandma's old mini.

I'm betting the AKG701 that you try will also sound bad out of your iphone.

Just please do yourself and favour and do a lot of reading on the top of the line cans...and how to actually drive them properly.

 

[jochen.schell]

It was in the shop, the source was a CD and I have no idea what amp it was.
Probably you are right and I should find a shop where I can use my iPhone together with the Mustang as source as this will be what I am going to use.

But even then I will not be able to listen to the AD2000 and the RS-1 as they will for sure not be around in any german shop.

Jochen

 

[drj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen.schell /img/forum/go_quote.gif It was in the shop, the source was a CD and I have no idea what amp it was. Probably you are right and I should find a shop where I can use my iPhone together with the Mustang as source as this will be what I am going to use. But even then I will not be able to listen to the AD2000 and the RS-1 as they will for sure not be around in any german shop. Jochen

Hey jochen,

because you come from iems that are easy to drive (most are designed to plug straight into a portable player), you probably haven't done much research on anything other than portable stuff.

If you are looking to move to high-end cans, then there are certain things you should read about. I'm not going to provide you with links, but I urge you to search.

To get you started, and in a very simple way and i mean simple (so don't correct me as I know it's not the least bit technical), the 'source' usually refers to the cd player, ipod, soundcard (the DAC basically). An 'amp' is then required for headphones that are inefficient and generally the top line headphones require an amp to sound their best.

so a typical computer setup could be:

soundcard optical out > DAC > Amp > Headphones

Now, i'm not sure on your particular amp, but I doubt portables will drive the HD650 to optimal levels. Disregard people that claim they run their HD650 from an IPOD...because they just don't know any better.

It's not about 'loudness' that determines if a headphone is driven well.

 

[jochen.schell]

Hello drj,

you are for sure right, even I already spent many hours reading in the forum I did not yet jump on the stationary amp scene.

I am using a Notebook, so an optical out is not available.
I started with a RSA Predator amp, because it can be driven by a LOD from the iPod as well as by the internal USB DAC from my notebook.
Unfortunately I had to realize that the amp sounds much batter with the iPod than the notebook/DAC as source.

I am expecting the problem is the Predator DAC and that is why I am going to buy a Devilsound DAC and a P-51 Mustang as amp.

This way I would be able to use a single amp for home and portable use, at home feed by the Devilsound DAC which should have quite a nice quality.

Sure the Mustang is still a portable amp but from all what I read it is able to drive cans, as long as the impedance is suitable.

Maybe in the last thoughts I am wrong and need then to go for a stationary amp ?

Jochen

EDIT:

I did now hear the K701 and they did not impress me too much.
I compared them with the same source (iPhone + Predator) to my W3 and the sound of the W3 was better to my ears.
I also could not find the K701 had a much wider stage.
The look and feel of these plastic phones was not my taste....

Then there was a nice surprise as the dealer also had some Grado phones.
Unfortunately the RS-1 was not there because it has been sold just before.
So I gave the RS-2 a try and they did really sound quite good.
I would not say better than the W3 but also not worse - they sounded different.
Here I also enjoyed the look and feel of the phones and I did not feel them to be uncomfortable in any way.

The dealer will give me a call as soon as he got another pair of RS-1 so I can hear them.

Jochen

 

[myk7000]

don't worry about drj's comments, he knows little of what he's talking about.

It is very possible that you may like the sq of the se530,ie8, or w3 more than the RS-1, K701, HD650, D7000, or DT880. The reason is because high calibur IEMs have the potential of providing a more intimate surround sound that can be hard achieve with full sized headphones. Yet full sized headphones also provide that airiness and larger soundstage inherently from their distance from your ears.

So get a listen if you can, as they are not necessarily BETTER, but they are a different sound that you may be looking for.

 

[catscratch]

HD650 and K701 will not work well with portable amps. These headphones are designed for stationary amps and high-resolution sources. Under portable conditions it's no wonder that they couldn't outperform the W3. That's like driving a track car offroad and then complaining about ground clearance - that's not what it's made for. Grados are marginally easier to drive but the higher-end ones still need powerful amps that are also capable of driving low impedance headphones well. I think that if you're intent on using any of these with a portable amp, you're wasting money and time.

Listen to any of these cans under optimal conditions and you will be very impressed with what they can do.

 

[jochen.schell]

You are right.
Under protable conditions I will probably not find any fullsize headphones that can outperform the W3.
This was a stupid idea

I think my search came to an end today because I totally fell in love when I saw the RS-2.
From all what I am reading here in the forum I will go for a RS-1 and then get the right amp for it to use it with my DAC at the notebook.
Or should I perhaps better look out for a GS1000?

So the W3 with the Mustang will be for portable use and the RS-1 with an amp still to find will be for home use.
It makes few sense to mix things up

Thanks again for all your help !!!

Jochen

 

[catscratch]

Sounds like a plan. You're going about it the right way: first find the transducers that really sound the way you want, then build a system around them to maximize their performance - serious stationary amp, a good DAC, etc.

I would listen to the RS-1 before you buy, and also keep in mind that vintage RS-1's do differ sonically from current-production RS-1's, and I would definitely do some reading in that direction. I'm no expert on Grado so I can't help you there. Now if you wanted to know about Stax... And speaking of Stax, I would see if you can find a local Stax dealer to audition some stuff as well. I'm not a fan of the O2 Mk2, I prefer the O2 Mk1 by miles and it's my hands-down favorite headphone, but I think you should still listen to every Stax system you can get your hands on (including the little 005a which sounds spectacular despite the size). Electrostatics have a very unique sound and you will not find that kind of speed and transparency in any other driver.

The ES3x is also there when you want to upgrade your portable system, though in EU it may be harder (not to mention more expensive) to obtain Westone products. But, on the other hand you can probably get ACS customs (the T1) much cheaper and more easily than in the 'States.

Just tossing out some ideas to make your life a little bit more complicated than it has to be

 

[scytheavatar]

Whether or not the Westone 3 is a significant step forward from the UM2 is already highly debeatable...

Oh, and do try the SR225 if you have a chance to. It might be a better idea for you to use some mid-end headphones and decide which sound signature is your favourite before committing to something as expensive as the RS1.

 

[GeoD]

I'd try out some Denon headphones, specifically the AH-D5000 or AH-D7000 if you haven't already. I have a pair of modded D2k's and recently sold my W3's, even after paying for custom UM56's, because I never wanted to use my W3's after hearing my Denon's. I did read you weren't into bass though, which can be bass heavy on the Denon's compared to other phones.

Good luck on your search!

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd try out some Denon headphones, specifically the AH-D5000 or AH-D7000 if you haven't already. I have a pair of modded D2k's and recently sold my W3's, even after paying for custom UM56's, because I never wanted to use my W3's after hearing my Denon's. I did read you weren't into bass though, which can be bass heavy on the Denon's compared to other phones. Good luck on your search!

As long as the Denon is MarkL modded...the stock is...very very questionable.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like a plan. You're going about it the right way: first find the transducers that really sound the way you want, then build a system around them to maximize their performance - serious stationary amp, a good DAC, etc. I would listen to the RS-1 before you buy, and also keep in mind that vintage RS-1's do differ sonically from current-production RS-1's, and I would definitely do some reading in that direction. I'm no expert on Grado so I can't help you there. Now if you wanted to know about Stax... And speaking of Stax, I would see if you can find a local Stax dealer to audition some stuff as well. I'm not a fan of the O2 Mk2, I prefer the O2 Mk1 by miles and it's my hands-down favorite headphone, but I think you should still listen to every Stax system you can get your hands on (including the little 005a which sounds spectacular despite the size). Electrostatics have a very unique sound and you will not find that kind of speed and transparency in any other driver. The ES3x is also there when you want to upgrade your portable system, though in EU it may be harder (not to mention more expensive) to obtain Westone products. But, on the other hand you can probably get ACS customs (the T1) much cheaper and more easily than in the 'States. Just tossing out some ideas to make your life a little bit more complicated than it has to be

I think with Westone 3 he can skip on the 005a, but the full-size Stax systems are certainly educational still.