[jochen.schell]

Hi,

since today I never owned full size headphones and am very impressed by my Weston 3 which I got some weeks ago.
I already improved them with a portable amp but now I am looking for even more

Which full size cans would be a real improvement with a "wow" effect coming from the W3's?
With improvement I mean mainly a wider stage and more separated instruments.

The cans should work well with a Predator / Mustang amp and be quite comfortable to wear.
From all what I did read the Grados are not too comfortable, beside of this I might have gone for a RS-1.

Now I am thinking about the AKG K701 /702 but am not sure if they are really in a noticable higher level than the W3's

I am open for suggestions

Thanks for your help, Jochen

 

[MaloS]

Eeeh, I don't think anything quite sounds like Westone 3 - especially with dynamics cans, you'll always be stuck deciding between bass output, speed, midrange, and so on...

AD2000 might be somewhat like it, but AD2K is more treble-happy, and not as powerful in the bass region.

 

[jochen.schell]

Hi MaloS,

thanks for you reply.
I am not looking for something that soujds like the W3, I am looking for something that sounds even better

The W3 might possibly be the best sounding IEM but I believe there are much better sounding fullsize cans out there.
If not, noone would buy headphones for much higher prices than the W3's

I am not a basshead at all, I love very natural sounding headphones and I like it when the instruments are clear, crisp and easy to separate. Maybe this is called analytical sound?
And I really love a wide stage, that means I "feel" the instrumenst playing far away from my head.

From what I read the AKG might be this way, but I am not sure if they will really be a (big) step forward from the W3's especially as the AKG's are cheaper ...

After going through many threads here I believe the Grado RS-1 might be what I am looking for, but I hate uncomfortable things in/at my ears

Jochen

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

I am not a basshead at all, I love very natural sounding headphones and I like it when the instruments are clear, crisp and easy to separate. Maybe this is called analytical sound? And I really love a wide stage, that means I "feel" the instrumenst playing far away from my head.

Natural sound =/= what most people call analytical. Most people call bright/sharp quasi-detailed sound analytical...

What you are describing is technically delivered by Omega 2 mkI in its full bloom, but most people (having never heard that) would complain about that statement - and this is in my understanding of the word natural.

Lastly - Westone 3 uses a balanced armature driver setup, which is very fast. Dynamics (except for Qualia 010, and possibly upcoming HD800) don't have that speed, so they can't really yield that ease of separation.

So you really have to decide more specifically what you are looking for. None of us are looking for in-your-head mush of unrealistic sound (opposite of what you described).'

Oh, and few headphones will sound outright better =). I highly doubt any full-size can will sound better than W3 if you are just going to use a portable amp.

 

[mbd2884]

Dynamic Vs. Balanced Armature - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

Very amusing thread where Piccolo can't accept that someone may prefer dynamic drivers for portables over dynamic armature.

I personally don't care as IEMs hurt my ears and are very uncomfortable. So to me, any full sized headphone is an upgrade over an IEM, just because it won't torture my ear canal.

Anyways, good luck finding the headphone you want, as MaloS said, Westone 3 use balanced armature which are derived from hearing aid technology, before that military use. They are generally limited at the extremes of the hearing spectrum (<20Hz, >16kHz), according to Wikipedia. Good luck finding your headphones.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dynamic Vs. Balanced Armature - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio Very amusing thread where Piccolo can't accept that someone may prefer dynamic drivers for portables over dynamic armature. I personally don't care as IEMs hurt my ears and are very uncomfortable. So to me, any full sized headphone is an upgrade over an IEM, just because it won't torture my ear canal. Anyways, good luck finding the headphone you want, as MaloS said, Westone 3 use balanced armature which are derived from hearing aid technology, before that military use. They are generally limited at the extremes of the hearing spectrum (<20Hz, >16kHz), according to Wikipedia. Good luck finding your headphones.

Lets not start this argument again. =) I am not Piccolo, I am not going to deny anyone preferences, but I am going to argue against such specs when we have data to show otherwise.

 

[jochen.schell]

Maybe I am looking for something that does not exist - at least not without spending thousands of Dollars for cans and amps

I was so impressed by the W3 which are giving me a pleasure that I never had (heard) before.
So I had the idea to make another step into this direction by getting fullsize cans.
But I did not have in mind the technically differences between IEMs and dynamics which seem to be the limiting factor.

Without putting much more money in my sources and amp I would probably be disappointed by any other headphones and should perhaps stay with what I actually have, at least I am not unhappy with it.
Just buying expensive cans will probably be not a very satisfying solution.

Jochen

 

[MaloS]

Hm...well lets turn this situation around:

I was looking for the longest for full-size cans that would satisfy my requirements. I have found those that succeeded in doing so - but I cannot afford them - they offer a whole lot more than I require, but the groundwork was only included with those.

I also found my requirements fulfilled with Westone 3, strangely enough. So now, basically in reverse situation from yourrs, I ended up in the same location and if that helps you - I suggest you don't even bother embarking on the path (unless you are willing to spend about 2-3 thousand dollars).

 

[catscratch]

Honestly, a lot of this will depend on what kind of fit you have with the W3, and what kind of sound you're getting out of it. Does it sound hyped up in the treble, a bit steely, with overbearing bass? Then pretty much anything that's good and full-sized will sound better. Does the W3 sound natural, well-balanced, with perhaps slightly bumped-up mids and a very silky, non-sibilant treble? Then you're getting the right fit, and even though this may be an unpopular opinion, you're really going to struggle to find something that's better in the full-size headphone realm without resorting to top-tier headphones, or without driving very scalable headphones like HD600/HD650 with very high-end gear. How much do you want to spend? Good sound is there if you're willing to fork out the dough (or if you're willing and able to DIY) but it's not always easy.

HD600 has roughly similar sound signature (a bit more recessed in the mids) and out of a good amp (i.e. not Predator, but a good full-sized desktop amp) and a good source it will give you very lifelike sound, though it will never have the imaging precision or speed of the W3. Obviously the O2 Mk1, when driven well, will give you a very lifelike and natural sound, but you'll have to fork it over for sources and amps, and here only the select few amps that have enough juice, and only reference-level sources will do. An O2 isn't something that you plug into your ipod, but something that will very frequently laugh at, and expose flaws in, the type of components that you'd match to $40,000+ speakers. A good O2 rig does not have to be expensive, mind you, and you can get a 717 on the cheap or DIY a good amp, and get a very good vintage DAC or one of the few modern sources that are thoroughly worth their money but won't break the bank (XA5400ES).

Honestly, for your rig, I would probably suggest getting the ES3x. Good full-size headphones shouldn't be matched with portable amps and mp3 players, so you're looking to spend a lot more than the price difference between W3 and ES3x going the full-size route.

Do you have someplace to audition some cans? High-end audio dealers will sometimes have a good selection of headphones on hand, and you can probably hear some Stax stuff at a Stax dealer, though they're not likely to have the O2 mk1 since it's discontinued. But you can hear the SRS-005a or SRS-2050 systems which are pretty good, or a 4070. The O2 Mk2 is a bit too colored for me and it's likely to be paired with the 007t2 amp, which can't drive it well at all. I don't like the 303/404 that much so I wouldn't bother with that. But that's just my preference.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen.schell /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, since today I never owned full size headphones and am very impressed by my Weston 3 which I got some weeks ago. I already improved them with a portable amp but now I am looking for even more Which full size cans would be a real improvement with a "wow" effect coming from the W3's? With improvement I mean mainly a wider stage and more separated instruments. The cans should work well with a Predator / Mustang amp and be quite comfortable to wear. From all what I did read the Grados are not too comfortable, beside of this I might have gone for a RS-1. Now I am thinking about the AKG K701 /702 but am not sure if they are really in a noticable higher level than the W3's I am open for suggestions Thanks for your help, Jochen

Of all the headphones I've ever heard I am most impressed with the Grado line. If you can get the RS1, jump at it...I love my SR325is headphones and my Westone 3s.

 

[drj]

I have the ms-pro which are the alessandro version of the RS-1. I've heard the RS-1 will be slightly more aggressive though.

They are not in the least bit uncomfortable, but comfort will always depend on the person. Unfortunately, I can't tell you that it will be comfortable for you.

I honestly believe that your jump to full-size cans will be rewarding for you. As much as the iem guys will think that iems can sound as good as some top of the line cans, they will always be different from the full size cans.

I'm only generalising, but you will have a far more natural presentation and soundstage with cans. Especially if you were thinking about the RS-1, i think you'll be blown away.

The AKG701 are fussy with amps, so with your current equipment, i would not give them a look-in. However, properly amped, there are meant to sound very good and apparently have a wide soundstage.

 

[charlie0904]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen.schell /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, since today I never owned full size headphones and am very impressed by my Weston 3 which I got some weeks ago. I already improved them with a portable amp but now I am looking for even more Which full size cans would be a real improvement with a "wow" effect coming from the W3's? With improvement I mean mainly a wider stage and more separated instruments. The cans should work well with a Predator / Mustang amp and be quite comfortable to wear. From all what I did read the Grados are not too comfortable, beside of this I might have gone for a RS-1. Now I am thinking about the AKG K701 /702 but am not sure if they are really in a noticable higher level than the W3's I am open for suggestions Thanks for your help, Jochen

i tried my mustang with k701, a few days back. didn't quite like the sound, with mustang, it jus feels like a bigger pfe. k701 still got potential.

PS: i am too, looking for a full size can for my mustang. cans is "jus better listening". current list is DT150, D2000.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

As someone who has made the jump from IEMs to full-size phones, I feel somewhat qualified to hazard some advice. The best IEMs I've had were the Westone UM2s and the Altec Lansing IM716 (based on the ER-4P). These two were on opposite sides of the sonic spectrum, but I liked things about them each of them. I wanted phones that could offer up the strengths of both these.

I have dabbled in portable amps as well. I owned the Minibox-E (along with the impressive Yuin PK1), and I currently own the iBasso D3 DAC/Amp. My first foray into full-size phones was the Koss A250. These were lightning quick sounding and were often referred to as the most Etymotic ER-4 sounding headphones available. Sadly, I had no proper amplification when I owned these, so who knows what they were really capable of. I currently have the Beyer DT150, and I am mostly satisfied with them. They have great bass, but I don't feel like the mids and highs suffer because of this. I listen mostly using the D3 connected via USB to my computer.

Getting to the point, I am starting to desire a new IEM. I had and continue to have no qualms with having an IEM as my main phone. I am really tempted by the Westone 3 (and also the upcoming UM3X after some reviews come out) after thoroughly enjoying the UM2. I like having the option to have very high quality listening sessions when I'm away from home. Portability is my main attraction to IEMs. Having found the UM2s extremely comfortable, I have high hopes for some of the new Westone offerings. If madness strikes me, I may have to get the ES3X!

Summing it up, it depends on the person and their needs when deciding if IEMs or full-size phones are the best fit. I like the idea of having both for different situations, but my wallet says it would be great to have one go-to phone for all my listening needs. As most of us know, Head-Fi is not the nicest to our wallets. I hope my ramblings have helped the OP out in some way. I've been away from Head-Fi for a while, so I felt the need to offer up a substantial post.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

I've heard a few people talk about the Westone 3 sounding Ultrasone-like, so maybe do a search on that brand.

If you search that giant Westone 3 topic back in the Portable section, I'm sure those people also mentioned the specific model(s).

 

[myk7000]

rs1.

It will give you a different sound. Not so much BETTER as it is DIFFERENT. However the difference is a very good difference. Switching back between my IE8 and RS1 is very pleasing as both have exceptional SQ while being so distinct in their sound signature.