Whest Active Analog Processor?
Nov 11, 2004 at 4:16 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

PhilS

Headphoneus Supremus
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I came across this in the Audio Advisor catalogue, and was wondering if anybody's heard it, heard about it, or has any opinion about it (which doesn't necessarily require that you've heard it or heard about it).
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http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...og%20Processor
 
Nov 13, 2004 at 6:11 AM Post #3 of 12
This product seems perfect for those "$2000 to spend" type threads...

If it sells, I predict that their next model will align everything below 12Hz.
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Nov 20, 2004 at 9:58 PM Post #4 of 12
Hi

I'm a first timer here but have seen some light talk about the Whest DAP.10.
It is selling very well here in the UK and has recieved some great press. I own one connected to a Audio Aero Prima CD player. Yes all the claims are true! I too was a sceptic until I gave it a listen at my local dealer. WOW!
everything from top-to-bottom has improved by a factor of xxx%. Apparently there are several reviewers here that are using it in their systems.

rob
 
Feb 21, 2006 at 7:48 PM Post #5 of 12
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS
I [...] was wondering if anybody's heard it, heard about it, or has any opinion about it [...]



I have not only heard about it or heard it, I own one. I received it this past Friday, and this post summarizes my opinion about it: The Whest Audio DAP.10 is simply one amazing product, which puts the fun back into CD replay, in particular when you're as spoilt as I am by a high-quality vinyl rig, sonically speaking.

I fully understand the skepticism reflected in the first few posts of this thread, and while I do not know what to make of robm1's first and only post in this forum, I have to admit that I am thoroughly impressed by what I hear coming out of my DAP.10.

It's not easy to put in words what the effect of the DAP.10 is. Reviews of this device are available on Whest Audio's website, and I read them all before ordering, but nothing could prepare me for the effect I heard after I inserted the DAP.10 into my stereo system. Now that I have re-read these reviews, I can understand much better what the respective reviewers were trying to tell their readers -- and why they failed to get the message across. By now I am convinced that -- unfortunately -- there is nothing I can say to fully describe the effect this device has on the sound, but let me tell you this much: Its effect is most beneficial.

The DAP.10's benefits cannot be described without using metaphors, and the one metaphor that sprang to my mind was that of binoculars. Imagine a CD player of high quality, very good cabling, in a system consisting of very good components that work very well together. That's how I would like to describe the rig I have at home (please see my profile for details).

In particular, my CD player is the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 3D, which is maybe not the latest model, but sonically still very respected, including by members of this forum (click here at 4.c. and here, third para. from above), and certainly not cheaply made.

Enter the DAP.10 (cabling is the same as with the stand-alone player, just two short runs of the same type of cable): The feeling you get is the sonic eqivalent of focusing your binoculars. The picture gets sharper and more clearly delineated, the objects in the picture lose their fuzzy, frayed edges, dark grey turns more towards black, and the colors and the white no longer "bleed" into the neighboring areas. Definition, definition and definition, in conjunction with focus, focus and focus, that's what the DAP.10 is all about.

In sonic terms this means (for example) that the solo rhythm guitar in the intro of Phish's "Sample In A Jar" is much better placed within the stereo image between the speakers, as is the snare drum, which also comes from a more celarly defined place, and certainly the singer's voice, which sounds much more "rounded" and palpable. The entire stereo image "snaps" into place -- quite an astonishing effect, especially if you were, like me, not at all unhappy about your CD player's imaging on a stand-alone basis (I have happily used this player since late 2001).

The other main effect of the DAP.10 is to "tighten up" the sound as such, irrespective of its placement in the stereo image. Bass notes get tighter (that's very easy to hear right away), a case in point being the first track on Nils Petter Molvaer's album "Khmer", which features a very loud rhythmic bass note in the left channel and a little later an equally loud, but slightly higher rhythmic bass note in the right channel. It is a tour de force for any system at any price point to reproduce this track clearly, as the interference of the two bass notes is very strong. The DAP.10 cleans up matters effortlessly and increases the definition of the bass notes to an extent that supresses any tendency to boom, but leaves in the bass energy.

The treble benefits in a similar way, with the exception that we're not talking about boom, but about a more transparent and crystalline, less fatiguing sound. This applies to cymbals (in pop or jazz music) as well as to violins (in classical music). The treble sounds clearer and much less "frayed" at its edges, which is one of the least pleasant characteristics of CD sound in general. The treble's extension, both within the stereo image and in terms of time (i.e. beginning and end of the respective sound) becomes better defined and less "fuzzy" with the DAP.10 in the chain.

Finally, the midrange, e.g. voices, saxophones and the like, appears to be "more 3D", in that the distinction between singer/soloist on the one hand and background music on the other hand becomes less "blurred". It's easier for the listener to perceive the singer/soloist as being a separate source of sound that is prominently featured, while remaining a part of the overall mix. This is quite an astonishing effect insofar as the overall integrity of the mix isn't being jeopardized at all (which is more than I can say about some of the "pseudo-detailed" products that are using a jacked-up treble to simulate higher resolution).

Despite all of the technical "hifi review" mumbo-jumbo above, the most impressive effect of the DAP.10 in my system is the simple fact that it makes CD playback so much more enjoyable, as the device effectively minimizes the digital "sizzle" (which is not necessarily the same as sibilance) and slightly metallic/electronic "glare" that even the most expensive CD players demonstrate, and which is the main reason why great vinyl is usually better-sounding than great CD, despite the many other shortcomings of vinyl.

For a moment this effect could be mistaken for a loss of treble (which is certainly a possibility given that you need to use two cables [with more connectors and thus more contact surfaces] instead of only one to connect the CD player to your amp's input), but upon further inspection and A/B'ing this assumption turns out not to be true. I cannot say that there is any loss of treble, at least not a significant one. But the treble is less fuzzy, less frayed, less badly defined than without the DAP.10 in the chain. Mind you, before trying this device I would not have described the sound of my CD player with these terms, and I also believe that it remains one of the more competitive CD-only players to this day. But the DAP.10 gave me more of a good thing, and that's why I value this unit so much and have such great respect for its creator.

Does this thing make my CD player sound identical or comparable to my vinyl rig? No, it doesn't. But it reduces the distance between the two to an extent and in an area that possibly no other "tweak" is able to. And that is most impressive. In a way, my CD player may sound a little less "spectacular" than without the DAP.10, but much more enjoyable, convincing and believable, and that's what it's all about, to me anyway.

You may have noticed that up to now, the word "headphone" has not appeared in my report, and as a matter of fact, I have done 95% of the listening with my speaker system. The remaining 5%, though, were done with my STAX Omega-II set, and as a teaser, I can confirm that the DAP.10 has a very beneficial effect on headphone listening as well, but it is too early for me to describe what exactly the headphone-specific characteristics are. For the time being let me state this: The DAP.10 may appear expensive, and it is not 100% clear to me how it does what it does, but one thing I know even now: If you have a decent CD player, and if your stereo system is principally capable of throwing a decent soundstage as well as of creating convincing images, there is no way you are going to let go of a DAP.10 once you've inserted it. Its beneficial effect is even more noticable (or should I say "less subtle") with headphones, and that's what I am going to report about in the near future.

In closing, I repeat that the DAP.10 puts the fun back into CD replay, and in a big way, which -- ironically -- may benefit less expensive players more than near-perfect ones, and in my view it is as far removed from being a fad as any excellent, but expensive component is from a hyped Bose (or comparable) product. But ultimately, I feel that I am lacking the words to describe more precisely why I perceive this device as being truly exceptional and its effect on the music so beneficial. You've just got to hear it for yourself, if you're interested. If your mind is open enough to accept the mere possibility of the beneficial effects I attempted to describe above, and if your wallet is deep enough to buy one, go and order one from a reliable dealer that offers a money-back policy or the like. We'll meet again in this place after you've tried it for a few days. I have made up my mind, my DAP.10 stays where it is.
 
Feb 22, 2006 at 1:29 AM Post #7 of 12
Quote:

Originally Posted by j-curve
If it sells, I predict that their next model will align everything below 12Hz.
tongue.gif



I never cease to be amazed at the concept that it's the sound we *can't* hear that matters! I seriously doubt that it's doing anything at all with frequencies that high, because they don't exist on most recordings. A small amount of peak expansion and some subtle dynamic filtering of the low level signals would probably evoke the "more lifelike sound" response. Perhaps that's what it really does.

See ya
Steve
 
Feb 22, 2006 at 4:02 AM Post #8 of 12
Not necessarily. A great influence on sound of digital souces is the analogue filter after. It's quite concievable that changing something in frequencies out of range can have an effect on the audible.

That said i'm not disagreeing either.
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Feb 22, 2006 at 10:04 AM Post #9 of 12
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot
I never cease to be amazed at the concept that it's the sound we *can't* hear that matters! I seriously doubt that it's doing anything at all with frequencies that high, because they don't exist on most recordings.


FYI -- The manufacturer does not claim that CD recordings as such contain such high frequencies. He is well aware of the fact that redbook's upper frequency limit is 22,050 Hz.

The claim is rather that the D/A conversion process as such in conjunction with a CD player's analog filter and output stage generates the above-mentioned ultra-high frequencies as unwanted side effects. Harmonics, if you will. Unwanted harmonics that are not on the recording but come to life post-conversion between D/A converter and ultimate analog output (i.e., RCA sockets).

That's what I understand anyway, and that's more or less what the manufacturer puts on his website and what the reviewers referenced in my report are explaining. Very similar to Garbz' understanding of the issue, it seems to me. A friend of mine who produces turntables and used to produce CD players finds this approach entirely plausible (which is one of the reasons why I took the plunge).

In any event, according to the manufacturer, the DAP.10 does an awful lot with the frequencies that high. I think you are merely speculating and appear to have no real basis for your ideas about what the DAP.10 "really does".
 
Sep 15, 2008 at 10:26 PM Post #10 of 12
Time to dust off this old thread. I just purchased a Whest Dap .10 that is less then a year old and in perfect working order for a price I couldn't refuse. It should arrive here by the end of the week and I will post pictures and comments once it has settled in a bit. I have read a lot about this product in Europe and the amazing reports on it's impact on SQ despite the controversy. Any negatives (or almost all of the negatives) are, as always, from people who have never heard the unit. It should be interesting...
 
Sep 27, 2008 at 1:37 AM Post #11 of 12
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Earlier this week I took delivery on the Whest .10U Dap what has to be my most controversial “tweaks” I have every tired to date. If you check my profile, you will see that I have a few rather esoteric “magic black boxes” in my audio stable. Ok, so I love to “tweak” but I freely admit that not all have been successful. Sure, some have been highly impacting like the Quantum Symphony Pro (no longer in production) it is simply wonderful and not leaving my system-ever! Others, like the Acoustic Revive RR-77, have had little impact on improving my sound BUT being able to resonate with “mother earth” at 7.84 Hz does leave me all cuddly inside, ha. The PS audio noise Harvester -for my system- were nothing more then blinking lights. The Blue Circle “ Power Line Pillows,” useless.

I have had access to mega dollar interconnects that have given me a perceived SQ impact only slightly greater then my moderately priced RS Audio and Signal Cables. I have also found that bespoke power cords yield the greatest impact on sound in regard to cables in general…

I could go on and on but the point I am trying to make is that while I am fanatical about extracting every nuance of sound out of my rig as a professional musician and fellow hobbyist, I am able to listen with a critical ear and admit that some “tweaks” are marginal at best, while others (not necessarily mentioned about so don’t shoot me) are hype and proverbial snake oil.


Whest .10 Dap Review

With that said, the Whest .10U analogue processor is by far the most impacting “tweak” I have added in my component chain. While purist would argue for a short signal path, this unit, in combination with a Dac and Tube Buffer offers tremendously engaging music that far out weighs the added signal path trade offs.

I will “try” to spare you many of the regular audiophile cliché’s…try. The greatest impact is an overwhelmingly liquid holographic sound. Immersive, is the repeated thought that comes to mind… a totally engaging listening experience. Instrumental layering and placement is laser clear without etchy, fatiguing or bloating. I think this is also aided by NOT using the included copper Whest IC’s and instead, using silver IC’s.

What was a “killer” rig already has now been transformed into something that pulls me INTO the musical experience in a way I didn’t know was possible with headphones. Note: I have always smiled at reviews who might mention their headphone listening experience as being similar to listening to speakers – I would humbly disagree that headphones can compete with the physically overwhelming power of speakers - but this unit brings me closer to this immersive experience then anything I have every heard on Headphones. Another way of describing this amazing effect…

With the Edition 9’s, I had never been able to really hear any “S logic” effect prior to the Whest .10 Dap. Again, now the sound is Binaural, like. I believe this is do to the noticeably (MORE) deeper, higher and wider SQ as to almost have the sound appear behind the listeners ears as it also reaches out into liquid vastness of sound deep in front and up and down…amazing!

The Whest Dap is not for everyone. It is crazy expensive for a tweak (new $1800). My unit was less then a year old and sold for far cheaper from a US owner. Money like this would be far better spent on upgrading Headphones, Transports, Dacs or Cables first.
B-U-T… for anyone with a rig that is well defined, I could not think of a more engaging and entertaining addition to consider.

I really don’t care what critics will say in response to this review…I have never understood the mindset of commenting on things one has no experience with? While I am fully aware of their concerns, and seemingly so, all I can tell you is the Whest .10 Dap is a HUGE winner for me.
 
Oct 10, 2008 at 5:18 AM Post #12 of 12
I guess I am talking to myself, but after several weeks now, the Whest .10 Dap is still rendering an astonishingly immersive listening experience.

My latest tweaks since this addition include: 1. Treated my cables with Xtreme Quick Silver Gold. 2. Running the Whest power directly in the wall and bypassing my power conditioner. 3. Upgrading my tube buffer to NOS Amperex Ecc88 Bugle Boy's.
 

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