[kboe]

Everyone here needs to shut the pie hole, and go listen to some music, weather you can hear your cables or not...
 
No matter what you may think of Beeman or his understanding of cables, if you can't agree with this, then theres no need for you to talk, yell, scream, or type to anyone, because to you its all one sided.
 
"If you can't hear a difference, I'm happy for you.  If you can hear a difference, I'm happy for you.  Where's the need to reconcile anything?" -Beeman458
 
I don't remember the last time an argument got me closer to the ultimate musical experience with my gear... listening to it did though!
 
Happy Tunes!

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

I guess I'm trying to understand why so many cable proponents react with horror at the thought that perceived differences possibly are due to their subconscious desire to hear them.  Especially when some of those same people express such delight with the "emotional" aspect of cables.  But dare to suggest that the subconscious may be at work, and the retort is so often "Are you calling me and every other pro-cabler crazy?!"  It begins to sound like some of these proponents believe they have complete control over their every inner thought, urge, bias, etc.  And I'm wondering if that is coupled with a general belief that things like psychoanalysis are useless or for "crazy" people.
 
I think it would be interesting to know this about people who think cables don't make a difference, as well.
 

I don't think either camp is free from trusting their ears.  Why?  Find me an anti-cabler who can hear differences while knowing that what he's hearing is just his imagination.  However, all of us can see a mirage and admit to the illusion of it.  IMO, those that never heard differences are just as vulnerable to suggestion with other audio gear because science exonerates them with regard to cables.  However, science demonstrates differences between amps, so suddenly there's justification for paying $5000 for amp B, though it may not sound different to amp A when listened to by someone else.  That someone else is just not listening closely enough.  Oh yeah, and the circus continues, but in this latter instance, science cannot be used in that fight now can it.
 
There do not seem to be many who used to hear differences, read the evidence, thought on it and then stopped hearing differences.   These are the lucky ones since they've had direct experience with psychoacoustic trickery and will start questioning the value of a lot that's out there. 

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

Beeman's reaction to disagreeable things:

Hilarious. Wish that post could become a permanent part of his profile.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

I don't think either camp is free from trusting their ears.  Why?  Find me an anti-cabler who can hear differences while knowing that what he's hearing is just his imagination.  However, all of us can see a mirage and admit to the illusion of it.  IMO, those that never heard differences are just as vulnerable to suggestion with other audio gear because science exonerates them with regard to cables.  However, science demonstrates differences between amps, so suddenly there's justification for paying $5000 for amp B, though it may not sound different to amp A when listened to by someone else.  That someone else is just not listening closely enough.  Oh yeah, and the circus continues, but in this latter instance, science cannot be used in that fight now can it.
 
There do not seem to be many who used to hear differences, read the evidence, thought on it and then stopped hearing differences.   These are the lucky ones since they've had direct experience with psychoacoustic trickery and will start questioning the value of a lot that's out there. 

That's all well and good, but it doesn't quite answer my question.
 
Of those of you who are cable proponents, how do you feel about the usefulness, or lack thereof, of psychoanalysis?  Same for the non-believers.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Everyone here needs to shut the pie hole, and go listen to some music, weather you can hear your cables or not...
 
No matter what you may think of Beeman or his understanding of cables, if you can't agree with this, then theres no need for you to talk, yell, scream, or type to anyone, because to you its all one sided.
 
"If you can't hear a difference, I'm happy for you.  If you can hear a difference, I'm happy for you.  Where's the need to reconcile anything?" -Beeman458
 
I don't remember the last time an argument got me closer to the ultimate musical experience with my gear... listening to it did though!
 
Happy Tunes!

 
Sounds like you've found a mentor.  Also sounds like you might need a time out.
 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

That's all well and good, but it doesn't quite answer my question.
 
Of those of you who are cable proponents, how do you feel about the usefulness, or lack thereof, of psychoanalysis?  Same for the non-believers.

There's another thread in this forum where the OP makes a long philosophical post that had me wondering what his point was.  I had a really hearty laugh, and that's why I spend time on these groups in that it can be fun, when someone just retorted with a one liner asking the OP what it was he wanted.
 
I feel inclined to do the same here.  What is it you want?  Please be direct here.  IOW's, you clearly think that it's useful... so please do share what it is that *you* think about psychoanalysis/psychotherapy and how it could help the afflicted on both sides.

 

[kboe]

It's my understanding that the person who calls an end to the pointless debate puts the other, obstinate "child" in time out, not the other way around.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

There's another thread in this forum where the OP makes a long philosophical post that had me wondering what his point was.  I had a really hearty laugh, and that's why I spend time on these groups in that it can be fun, when someone just retorted with a one liner asking the OP what it was he wanted.
 
I feel inclined to do the same here.  What is it you want?  Please be direct here.  IOW's, you clearly think that it's useful... so please do share what it is that *you* think about psychoanalysis/psychotherapy and how it could help the afflicted on both sides.

 
I've been quite direct.  You seem to have missed it (perhaps intentionally).  Do I think psychoanalysis is useful?  You bet I do.  But that doesn't mean I'm right.  How could it help both sides of the debate is not the issue.  Rather it's the belief that one has control of one's subconscious that I am interested in.  I've been pretty up front about that.  Do you think psychoanalysis is for the insane?


 
Quote:

It's my understanding that the person who calls an end to the pointless debate puts the other, obstinate "child" in time out, not the other way around.

 
Doesn't really matter.  Seems like your participation in this thread has reached its conclusion.
 

 

[beeman458]

I don't remember the last time an argument got me closer to the ultimate musical experience with my gear... listening to it did though!
 
Now listening to Johnny Cash: "American III: Solitary Man."
 

 

[BIG POPPA]

To make such a comparison is a bit much for a hobby? Just because there are different methods to enjoy this hobby, doesn't mean one is better than the other? Just a different path is taken to arrive at the same place. People post different opinions. This part is great, it keeps things interesting.
 
Quote:

Do those of you who believe that cables positively affect the sound of your systems also believe in the positive benefits of psychotherapy?  This is not a trick question.

 

[beeman458]

To make such a comparison is a bit much for a hobby?
 
To be helpful, the poster could care less about an answer as they're using innuendo to stir the pot for personal entertainment purposes.
 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

 
I've been quite direct.  You seem to have missed it (perhaps intentionally).  Do I think psychoanalysis is useful?  You bet I do.  But that doesn't mean I'm right.  How could it help both sides of the debate is not the issue.  Rather it's the belief that one has control of one's subconscious that I am interested in.  I've been pretty up front about that.  Do you think psychoanalysis is for the insane?


 
 
Doesn't really matter.  Seems like your participation in this thread has reached its conclusion.
 

 
You originally asked me the value of psychotherapy, but now you're referring to psychoanalysis. They hold different meanings. Which do you mean to say?
 
BTW, I'm not denying the failings of the human mind and the psychological effects involved here. They confound procable arguments no doubt. But, I don't think that argument alone accounts for some things I've experienced. For example, the cable differences my friends articulated were very close, if not identical to what I heard. I never told them what to expect or what to look for. If psychology was the only thing involved here, everyone would have said something different because surely, not everyone's subconscious thinks the same things and thus, not everyone would imagine the same sound characteristics. These are very specific things being reported too, not just merely "this is better and that is worse".
 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

I've been quite direct.  You seem to have missed it (perhaps intentionally).  Do I think psychoanalysis is useful?  You bet I do.  But that doesn't mean I'm right.  How could it help both sides of the debate is not the issue.  Rather it's the belief that one has control of one's subconscious that I am interested in.  I've been pretty up front about that.  Do you think psychoanalysis is for the insane?

 

Well, it's been clear that you think psychoanalysis is useful.  Otherwise you wouldn't bring it up the way you did.  What I'm wondering is exactly how you think it would be useful.
 
... and an emphatic no to the question of if I think psychoanalysis is for the insane.  IMO, psychoanalysis is essential for clarity in thinking as well as a balanced POV and attitude towards things in general.
 

 

[The Monkey]

I'm going to assume that people would rather not answer the question, which is unfortunate.





Edit: oops, saw aimlink's response a bit late. Do others feel similarly. Do you, beeman?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

 
Quote:

Would you accept that any difference is not then due to the cable, but instead it is down to you alone?
 
No.  Why?  Then that would make me and a bunch of cable lovers delusional.  All along I've known that something's going on with the cabling.  I don't know what, but the why isn't important.  Some cables I hear a difference in, other cables I don't.  I've taken the time to explain my listening protocol and what it is a listen for and now you want me to conveniently write off my experiences to satisfy your need to explain why you can't hear a difference?
 
That would explain why you hear something others do not.
 
No it wouldn't.  That's the "theory" which you and others have grabbed onto.  Your basic premise is, "If I can't hear a difference, then nobody can hear a difference."  After writing what you just wrote, maybe you'll better understand why I write some of what I write in that, based upon what I and others have written, you and others still are missing out and you're having trouble grasping the reality of this point, your ears didn't get invited to the party.
 
Me?  If I were left out of the party in this fashion, I wouldn't worry about it as it's just not my party to participate in.  Let those who can party, party.  It's no big thing.  But when folks try to shut another down, just because they themselves can't hear a difference, it speaks reams about their character.  Let people enjoy their cables.  They're happy with their cables.  Why the need to be a buzz kill?

Beeman, I do not think you are delusional. That is too emotive and suggests an apparent madness. I do think that you are wrong to attribute any heard change to the actual cable. I understand your protocol and accept that you hear differences. Really, what I would like you you do is add to your experiences and participate in a blind test. But I know that you will not do that, which is fine. Its your mind and your cables in your system.
 
I can't hear a difference anymore between cables because I have accepted the evidence and now my mind no longer hears any differences. That is one of the reasons why I say it is all in the mind and not at all in the cable. I promise it is not because of your claim that because I cannot hear a difference then no one can. That is clearly a nonsense argument and one I have never put forward.
 
I do not understand why you keep saying that others try and shut you down. That is impossible on an open forum like this. Arguing and disagreeing is not being shut down.
 
Let people enjoy their cables you say. Fine, I have no issue with people buying different cables, so long as they are being bought with a full, factual both sides of the debate understanding of what they bring to your hifi system. The problem is that there are too many claims about cables that cannot be shown to be factual.