Quote: Originally Posted by
maverickronin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You pressed my button, so here goes.
So you admit that you don't except the evidence against cables for purely emotional reasons.
Of course it's not for emotional reasons. Few have been as repetitive as beeman and yet you err in this way? Wow!
Not because there isn't evidence, not because there are flaws in the evidence, not because you have objective evidence for you position, but because you are scared. Scared to be wrong.
LOL!!! Your credibility got a blow here.
I can't speak for others, but I for one will not laugh at or make fun of you if you admit you are wrong.
On your terms it would seem. Quite manipulative and imposing, isn't it?
I not here to rip on you, or anyone else who believes in cables. You have rather strong subjective evidence in your favor. It can be hard to discount. You
need to discount it though. You need to learn why you should discount it. You need to learn that subjective evidence is meaningless in science. That science is the the only way we have to understand the world. If it is not possible for everyone who tries to replicate your results simply by following your procedure, than how can we say that it is really true? How can we say that it isn't in your mind and not the cable?
Science is not the only way we have to understand the world and I'm very happy that this is the case. You are revealing your severe myopia with regards to life and how you can learn from it. Unfortunately, there are way too many out there with this sort of mentality. Science is a word man came up with. He gave it meaning. We created our scientific methods etc. for our own purposes. Science has admittedly assisted us in many, many ways. However, let's not get overboard and rely solely on it. This is a foolish position to take. You need to realise this.
People have subjective evidence in favor of all sorts of fantastic notions that you probably don't believe in. Do aliens abduct people on a regular basis? Is Elvis still alive? Does ritual magic actually work? People believe all this and more on the strength of purely subjective experiences. Experiences that can not be verified by any objective observer. Do you believe those notions? They have just as much evidence in their favor as you do. If you don't believe them, then why should you ask us to believe
you instead?
There are more pertinent questions to ask than about aliens and which science cannot begin to answer.
This is the important part. It's something that many people need to learn. Not just you, and not just cable believers. You need to learn to apply skeptical thinking and logic to your own experiences. You probably already know this in your heart. You just can't come to terms with it. Its vitally important that you do though. It's vitally important that everyone does. The human species depends on it. Logic, reason, empirical experimentation, and above all, the scientific method are the tools we need to fully understand the would we live in.
The Human species needs to not listen to what you're saying. 
Thankfully, they don't. In the same way that many discredit science in general, by siting faulty scientific methodology or where science has failed or erred, you are now discrediting the metaphysical and knowledge outside contemporary science in the same way.
Our perceptions aren't enough.
Science is based on our perceptions!!! Without our perceptions there would be no science. Science is based on what we observe. We may build tools to observe or measure for us, but in the end there must be an interpreter to look at what the measuring device has to say, so in the end it's still us making that final observation. Science is based on reproducability of what we observe, concensus of experience and being able to predict what will be observed to happen next, and in turn, we manipulate the phenomena we observe happening around us. It starts with us and what we perceive. When you look more deeply, our very observing is essential and actually affects what happens.
Through our observations we discover new things for scientific investigation. It's through observation that we pick up inconsistencies in predicted observable patterns which initiate further investigation. Once you realize how central our perception is to science as we know it, you grow to respect and value your perceptions. It's all that we have. It fools us yes, but we must not forget where they got us and will take us as we develop as beings.
It's this realization that makes one who hears a difference in cables, so resistant to scientific data that refutes their experience. It doesn't mean that they are against science. I've asked this before and I'll ask again, I'd love to hear from anyone involved in these discussions, who currently hears differences between cables and smiles in wonder at the illusion of it, while trusting that the DBT's out there are correct in claiming that the difference they're hearing is like a mirage. I'm willing to bet that there are no anti-cablers here who hear differences between cables and this, to me, is one of the failings of that cause.
It's obvious they aren't enough. If they were, no one would need to go to school. The laws of physics would be obvious, we'd have no need for the crutch of mathematics, and we would be able to learn any skill after seeing it performed once. Since its obvious that this is not the case, its obvious our perceptions have serious limitations. We didn't evolve to live in the kind of world we now inhabit. Our brains aren't up to task of living in it. At least not without help. Not without tools, both physical and mental. From a wrench to the theory of universal gravitation, we must use tools painstakingly created and honed over eons of man hours to make our way through everyday life, to propagate our species, and to survive into the future.
It's true that we need to be careful with our perception and that we can be fooled by them. However, consider who is behind the observation and documentation of scientific data, phenomena and theory. None other than us same individuals, using those same flawed and limited perceptions to try to observe and understand what's happening around us.
I hope that you can now see how foolish it is to not put so much trust in science? If there's anyone that's scared, it's actually you since you are too scared to venture outside the warm, cozy comfort of science... a comfort that's illusory and has no genuine basis for it.
Also that line should read:
That's the "theory" which you and others have grabbed onto. Your basic premise is, "If nobody can hear a difference under controlled conditions, then nobody can hear a difference."
Ok, I do agree that this is a more reasonable way to look at the anti-cabler's position.
