What's with these two trends: Everything portable and DAC + AMP in one box these days?!

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...this thread is about the Pico...

Nope, I was talking about how almost all major manufacturers came up with these - Corda 2Move, iBasso D2, GoVibe Petite, RSA Predator and HeadAmp Pico.

I really didn't want to single out the Pico, it was just the only product mentioned right away in this thread.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nope, I was talking about how almost all major manufacturers came up with these - Corda 2Move, iBasso D2, GoVibe Petite, RSA Predator and HeadAmp Pico. I really didn't want to single out the Pico, it was just the only product mentioned right away in this thread.

Semantics. It's about the Pico, and all those other ones too. I guess there are so many because there is a big market, and maybe you think there shouldn't be? Do you think people should spend that same money on non-portable separates? That would make sense if there were any options. Can you think of a better way to spend $500 for an amp and DAC that will out do a Pico?

The main issue people seem to have with the Pico is connectivity, no spdif in or out etc.

 

[grawk]

The only dac in the ballpark of the pico in quality is the duet, and it's mac only

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only dac in the ballpark of the pico in quality is the duet, and it's mac only

So what options, if any, are there to solve the OPs dilemma?

Or is that the point, that there are no other options to these all in one portables, and that's disappointing? That makes sense too. Maybe it would possible to make something cheaper that sounds better tan a Pico but no-one is, and they should?

Personally, I don't see it. Pico is about as good as it gets design wise. No AC to worry about, clean battery power, no s/pdif, clean I2S, no mass of wires and connectors, clean compact design etc. Plus it's portable. It seems no-one else has designed anything to sound better in one or two boxes for that money?

 

[grawk]

I know justin's planning on a slightly bigger dac only version of the pico. I know that headroom's got their ultradac, the desktop line, etc. There's the duet. I'd guess that more options are coming. Denying that the new gear is better is hiding your head in the sand. DACs are one area where things can and will continue to improve.

Amps are improving too, but the microportables aren't really where. The various digital amps (icepower and the like) are revolutionizing speaker amps, great sound and low power and heat.

There's no shortage of great gear. The portable stuff gets the press, and the bigger stuff costs more, but I'd wager that there is more quality gear at every price point than at any point in the past. The ipod got people listening again, and then the people who got back into it who appreciated better started spending money. It's a rising tide raises all boats phenomenon. Just because they don't talk about it in wired doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[stevenkelby]

Thanks. I have no idea what the home-only competition is for the Pico, that's why I asked

I expect that soon a product will come from somewhere that does for home use what the Pico, Predator and iqube did for portable. I mean, around $500, amp/DAC in one or separate, and a big step forward in SQ.

There doesn't seem to be much like that at the moment.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. I have no idea what the home-only competition is for the Pico, that's why I asked I expect that soon a product will come from somewhere that does for home use what the Pico, Predator and iqube did for portable. I mean, around $500, amp/DAC in one or separate, and a big step forward in SQ. There doesn't seem to be much like that at the moment.

In the same price range, Meier Cantate (and Aria) strikes me as one, the HR Micro Stack is another (mine outperforms the Pico). Then there is the new Travagans amp with DAC.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the same price range, Meier Cantate (and Aria) strikes me as one, the HR Micro Stack is another (mine outperforms the Pico). Then there is the new Travagans amp with DAC.

What version of the Micro Stack do you have because another Head-Fier and I tested my Pico against the 9V version of the Micro Stack and we both came to the conclusion that there wasn't even really any comparison, the Pico was far superior.

 

[lobehold]

Personally I would love to get a portable solution due to the convenience. We young folks here are a mobile bunch, a portable DAC + amp solution is especially appealing due to the fact many owns a laptop or have access to lab computer at school.

In my circumstance though when I listen to music portably I never have the proper environment to truly pay attention to the details, soundstage... etc, I either need to listen to some music as a distraction or listen to audio to work on projects that have audio in it, so I really don't need to have that kind of quality since I'll be too busy to pay attention to it anyways. I mean, who can tell how good your music really sounds when you're on the bus? (or if you go for isolation then you're gonna be ran over by said bus

)

As for DAC + amp combo on the desktop/non-portable side, I'm currently waiting for my EMU 0404 to arrive, which fits the description. However everyone agrees its a good value so I don't think that it being a DAC + amp itself is bad.

I guess as you go higher up the price chain it makes more sense to get the DAC and amp separately due to most companies are only best at either DAC or amp. However I think there are a lot of great values in terms of integrated solutions if you are not going for the ultimate experience, so my point is that on the desktop side, a DAC + amp isn't really a bad thing at all consider the price/performance.

Besides, having both the source and amp in the same device should eliminate signal degradation from interconnect(s).

 

[wolfen68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero /img/forum/go_quote.gif What version of the Micro Stack do you have because another Head-Fier and I tested my Pico against the 9V version of the Micro Stack and we both came to the conclusion that there wasn't even really any comparison, the Pico was far superior.

No doubt true, but maybe an outdated comparison as most agreed the original 9V microstack's strength was the DAC...not the amp. The newer microstack is reputed to be a new animal on the amp side.

My '06 MicroDAC trounced the Pico...but it's hard to compare as the DAC comparison can only be made with another amp involved (in this case SR71).

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero /img/forum/go_quote.gif What version of the Micro Stack do you have because another Head-Fier and I tested my Pico against the 9V version of the Micro Stack and we both came to the conclusion that there wasn't even really any comparison, the Pico was far superior.

Well, I should clarify that the Micro Stack via USB input is NOT as good as the PICO via USB, but I am not using it with USB audio sources as it really shines with optical/coax. So, I am feeding the Micro Stack via optical input from Macbook and iRiver, and from a PCDP optical out on my bedside table.

I think the Micro Amp has a "warmer lusher more full bodied home amp sound" than the PICO amp, and can compete with tubes. The PICO as a variable output level DAC and feeding the Micro Amp sounds better than the PICO alone, to my ears. And, for "USB-only", the PICO is maybe better than the Micro Stack. The whole reason I got the PICO was to use the great USB DAC, so I don't have to bring my Apogee or Micro Stack with me and unplug everything to get going. And, to use with my PC computer in my second rig that is going in the basement, to feed my DarkVoice 336i.

Now, IMHO my Apogee mini-DAC sounds the best. I put my Apogee mini-DAC with USB/Optical/Coax input in my main rig, and it is more versatile with the multiple sources that I use with it. The key to the Apogee sounding best is to use (1) the Sigma 11 power supply and (2) the Jensen Transformers PC-2XR to convert the XLR out to RCA out, as it is much better than the 1/8" out of the Apogee. With this, the Apogee I bought from Iron_Dreamer sounds better than the PICO, and he replaced this same Apogee with a PICO. I hate to say this, but with my setup I feel the 1/4" Headphone out of Apogee sounds better to me than the PICO. But, it is not portable at all.

I still think the Pico is great, and it kills most other portable amps, and most USB DAC's too, but it is not God's gift to the Head-Fi universe. It is just a very clean and neutral (slightly cool) USB DAC amp, whose main benefit is the tiny portable package, and a USB DAC that alone is worth $500 if USB is your primary source for audio.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfen68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif No doubt true, but maybe an outdated comparison as most agreed the original 9V microstack's strength was the DAC...not the amp. The newer microstack is reputed to be a new animal on the amp side. My '06 MicroDAC trounced the Pico...but it's hard to compare as the DAC comparison can only be made with another amp involved (in this case SR71).

This is what I am saying. One other thing I left out is the Micro DAC sounds better with my Mac than my PC as a USB DAC. But something about the PC USB makes all my USB DAC's sound darker and bassier. The PICO is better with my PC than other USB DAC's I have tried (haven't tried Apogee on it, wasn't worth it). I don't know why my PC doesn't get along with USB DAC's without screwing up the sound. (Win XP home SP2 2ghz celeron )

I have taken the Micro DAC portable with my iRiver and Predator, and the Predator does sound better than the 2006 Micro Amp, but they are not worlds apart. The Micro Amp makes more sense plugged in than portable, and it is still pretty decent.

 

[powertoold]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif One other thing I left out is the Micro DAC sounds better with my Mac than my PC as a USB DAC. But something about the PC USB makes all my USB DAC's sound darker and bassier.

Wow, how does that happen? Macs are also better than PCs at sending a USB signal? Hurry, let's tell Steve Jobs to make a new Mac commercial: my USB is better than yours

 

[grawk]

That's easy, the stock driver for usb audio for windows resamples everything to 48/16.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by powertoold /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, how does that happen? Macs are also better than PCs at sending a USB signal? Hurry, let's tell Steve Jobs to make a new Mac commercial: my USB is better than yours

I've posted about this problem for months, but I don't know how to fix it. I don't much about Windows and audio. I've been reading about something called ASIO4ALL but I don't understand if it will help or what it does. But windows is doing something to crappify the sound. Maybe you can help me fix it?