What's the difference between a normal amp and a headphone amp?

[Gbjerke]

I already have an amp for my speakers, and was just wondering if the phone amps do just the same, but cost less.

Sorry if i seem full of gibberish.

 

[blawhh]

They do pretty much the same except they are built for headphones. Only some speaker amps have headphone outs.

 

[IPodPJ]

They do not all cost less, that's for sure. But if you're comparing apples to apples, a top of the line headphone amp will cost less than a top of the line speaker amp.

 

[Gbjerke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif They do not all cost less, that's for sure. But if you're comparing apples to apples, a top of the line headphone amp will cost less than a top of the line speaker amp.

Well i have an amp, and i just use a 1/4 inch out. And when i plug them in, the only real difference is the volume. And since these headphone amps are around 200$, is it REALLY worth it? Or do you just do it..because you know that your phones could sound a tad better?

 

[iancraig10]

On some amps, the headphone out is an afterthought and is 'bled' from the speaker output inside the amp.

Speakers are from 4 to 6 ohm and something like the Senn HD650 is 250 ohm so there is a kind of 'mismatch' so that you're not really getting the best from your headphones. The frequency response could be different via a speaker amp in comparison to a headphone amp.

I find that headphone outs on speaker amps tend to sound warmer than a headphone amp. (Well a good one anyway) and the headphone amp has more direct attack on the transients with a quicker decay.

Ian

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif On some amps, the headphone out is an afterthought and is 'bled' from the speaker output inside the amp.

It just goes through a resistor. That doesn't make it an afterthought nor necessarily inferior. All this has been discussed at length in threads like "Using a full sized integrated amp".

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speakers are from 4 to 6 ohm and something like the Senn HD650 is 250 ohm so there is a kind of 'mismatch' so that you're not really getting the best from your headphones. The frequency response could be different via a speaker amp in comparison to a headphone amp.

Actually the higher the impedance the less likely there is to be any frequency response variations when using an integrated amp. I've used the Senn HD650 with numerous receivers and integrateds with great results--as good as with any dedicated headphone amp. That might not be the case with low impedance phones--though it might be. There's only one way to tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find that headphone outs on speaker amps tend to sound warmer than a headphone amp. (Well a good one anyway) and the headphone amp has more direct attack on the transients with a quicker decay. Ian

Which means that in practice many CDs may well sound better through the "warmer" output of an integrated. Your observation basically tallies with mine, but the effect is subtle and for many people the difference is not worth the investment in a dedicated amp.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It just goes through a resistor. That doesn't make it an afterthought nor necessarily inferior. All this has been discussed at length in threads like "Using a full sized integrated amp". Actually the higher the impedance the less likely there is to be any frequency response variations when using an integrated amp. I've used the Senn HD650 with numerous receivers and integrateds with great results--as good as with any dedicated headphone amp. That might not be the case with low impedance phones--though it might be. There's only one way to tell. Which means that in practice many CDs may well sound better through the "warmer" output of an integrated. Your observation basically tallies with mine, but the effect is subtle and for many people the difference is not worth the investment in a dedicated amp.

Sorry. I must have been wrong.

 

[Hirsch]

A slightly better analogy would be to a preamp, as the volume levels are about the same. In fact, many preamps can serve as headphone amps, and vice versa. The Melos SHA-1 was developed as a headphone amp, but the market for those was very limited. However, it was sold as a preamp with headphone outputs, and did quite well. The headphone output on my Fisher 400 receiver is the full output of the power tubes, with an attenuating resistor to ground to keep the headphones from frying. Speaker amp and headphone amp are one and the same. Sounds good to me.

Just because a device can have multiple functionality does not mean that it's not a good headphone amp. The converse, that some devices with headphone outputs sound horrible is also true. Sennheiser used to make a DSP headphone amp that sold with the HD-580 that may be the single worst piece of audio gear I've ever owned. Just because it was a dedicated headphone amp didn't make it a good one.

If you've got a speaker amp, Joe Grado designed a simple attenuator to put on the speaker outputs to use with headphones. You can always give this a try and see just how good a speaker amp is with headphones. Here it is:

 

[iancraig10]

I suppose going straight from the pre-amp to a headphone amp is perhaps a better route than via speaker outputs and a resistor.

Funny enough - I'm about to try wiring headphones to the speaker out of an amp just to see what it sounds like.

However, if the headphone out from an integrated sounds as good, then so be it. Headphone amplifiers may well not be worth the money.

 

[plonter]

HI guys. this is an interesting thread, and because of my rather low knowledge, i can't argue with any of you and don't want to either..but i just can't except the fact that dedicated headphone amps is exactly the same as a headphone out of a reciever or a speaker amp.
i mean..there must be some benefits to using a dedicated headamp..?
what about the shortest circuts and stuff..shortest wires possible...i am just throwing stuff away(don't be angry at me) because i am not knowledgeable enough, so i am asking.

i am really not trying to justify all my purchases, i really enjoy my gear and it is also very small and flexible, but i am asking just from interest.
can't you find some benefits to headamps...? and why most audiophiles here in head fi are using dedicated headamps than..?

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif HI guys. this is an interesting thread, and because of my rather low knowledge, i can't argue with any of you and don't want to either..but i just can't except the fact that dedicated headphone amps is exactly the same as a headphone out of a reciever or a speaker amp. i mean..there must be some benefits to using a dedicated headamp..? what about the shortest circuts and stuff..shortest wires possible...i am just throwing stuff away(don't be angry at me) because i am not knowledgeable enough, so i am asking. i am really not trying to justify all my purchases, i really enjoy my gear and it is also very small and flexible, but i am asking just from interest. can't you find some benefits to headamps...? and why most audiophiles here in head fi are using dedicated headamps than..?

Most speaker amps can't do headphones well. There's no real line separating the two; it's more of a continuum. Headphone amps are at one end of the spectrum.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by atothex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most speaker amps can't do headphones well. There's no real line separating the two; it's more of a continuum. Headphone amps are at one end of the spectrum.

well..this is not what said by others. just look a few post up..

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif i just can't except the fact that dedicated headphone amps is exactly the same as a headphone out of a reciever or a speaker amp.

There is a difference but some people seem to feel that the expense isn't worth the money for the 'minor' differences.

Some advantages are:

Lower signal to noise since you should be coming from a line out, so the amp can act as a 'reducer' so that the noise floor is perceived as lower.

You should hear more 'dynamics' and some people say, a clearer defined bass.

Quite a few 'hi fi' people feel that the headphone out from many integrated amps doesn't come up to the separate Headphone amp in terms of sound.

Otherwise, we've all wasted our money eh? (In my case - big money)

I think the previous guys are saying that the differences are minimal which I don't entirely agree with in all honesty.

Being in Headfi is like sitting in a bath. Push all the water towards the plug and you always get water coming back at you.

I could be rude but I'll stay polite.

That's the beauty of discussion.

 

[robm321]

Thanks for your post of Joe Grado's adapter. Might be worth trying my speaker amps with headphones. If I get ambitious with that, I'll post back my findings.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a difference but some people seem to feel that the expense isn't worth the money for the 'minor' differences. Some advantages are: Lower signal to noise since you should be coming from a line out, so the amp can act as a 'reducer' so that the noise floor is perceived as lower. You should hear more 'dynamics' and some people say, a clearer defined bass. Quite a few 'hi fi' people feel that the headphone out from many integrated amps doesn't come up to the separate Headphone amp in terms of sound. Otherwise, we've all wasted our money eh? (In my case - big money) I think the previous guys are saying that the differences are minimal which I don't entirely agree with in all honesty. Being in Headfi is like sitting in a bath. Push all the water towards the plug and you always get water coming back at you. I could be rude but I'll stay polite. That's the beauty of discussion.

thanks a lot for the answer man, to be honest, since i got into the headphones buisness i never tried anything else except dedicated headphone amps..and that is because i was so amazed when i first listen to one (my first headroom total airhead) and it got only better since than.
to be even more honest, i can't recall ever to listen to hi-fi sound from a speaker rig.

but i am glad to hear that there are some differences and benefits from using a headphone amp. and also we can say that HI-FI is always about the little things isn't it..? all the little things in the end will be one big thing. this is what it's all about.