What's the difference between a normal amp and a headphone amp?

[tosehee]

ZD SE does have 2 line out. So you can attach this in between your source and MC225.

Source -> ZD SE -> MC225 - Speaker
Source -> ZD SE -> Headphone

When you want to listen to headphone, you just simply plug in your headphone and line out is disengaged. When you want to listen to speaker, just unplug your headphone.

As for modifying Mc225, like I said, I don't own it, so i don't know the internals and every feature of it. Does it have a volume control and the headphone input?

If it does, you can use it as such. McIntosh is a great amp, no doubt. I don't know about best amp ever created comments, but it's a very reputable amp for sure. I own MC275 myself.

 

[eertelppa]

Ahh ok so a pre-amp would, in most situations, be pointless.

Yes that is what I was asking. I mean I am confused on paying double, triple, quadruple, for headphones amps when speaker amps like the marantz and mcintosh and many others are not as expensive. I guess just a little hung up on that.

But if headphone amps sound better for the application of headphones then who knows what I will do when the time comes to get an amp.

How will headphone amps drive speakers?

thanks for the help,

austin

 

[eertelppa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif ZD SE does have 2 line out. So you can attach this in between your source and MC225. Source -> ZD SE -> MC225 - Speaker Source -> ZD SE -> Headphone When you want to listen to headphone, you just simply plug in your headphone and line out is disengaged. When you want to listen to speaker, just unplug your headphone. As for modifying Mc225, like I said, I don't own it, so i don't know the internals and every feature of it. Does it have a volume control and the headphone input? If it does, you can use it as such. McIntosh is a great amp, no doubt. I don't know about best amp ever created comments, but it's a very reputable amp for sure. I own MC275 myself.

--------Please keep in mind for anyone reading---------

Zana Deux SE and McIntosh MC225 are both examples. You can replace any speaker amp or headphone amp with the above mentioned brand name amplifiers.

I point this out only not to confuse people or wonder why these specific components, brands, and models were chosen for discussion.

---------End of disclaimer note haha----------

I do not own the MC225's they are what my dad owns.

I am wondering if using the MC225 is a benefit to a setup for headphones. I am wondering if I could/should get

source -> speaker amp -> speaker pre-amp -> speakers/headphones
source -> headphone amp -> speaker amp -> speakers/headphones
source -> headphone amp -> speakers/headphones
source -> speaker amp -> speaker pre-amp -> speakers
source -> headphone amp -> headphones

or any other crazy combinations

For the time being my concern of the ultimate output is headphones and not speakers. It would be nice to prevent myself from buying both the exampled component for future reasons of maybe having speakers in the next few years:

in other words it would be nice if I did not have to buy both the ZD (example) and MC225 (example) over the next few years or whatever.

I do not want to compromise either of the setups too much. What I mean is if its a big difference then maybe its best to get both over time. If there is a small difference maybe I can squeeze by with only the MC225 (along with preamp if need be) or only with the ZD (along with preamp if need be)

thanks again for the help everyone,

austin

 

[tosehee]

You are asking the same question in the cyclic pattern.

Headphone amps are designed to drive headphone, not the speakers. Except very a few headphone (ZDT comes to my mind and WA5) amp, they can't drive the speakers at all.

Even these amps can only drive the very efficient speakers. Check your speaker and look at the Nominal SPL rating.

 

[tosehee]

ZD is a preamp + headphone.

if you buy ZD SE now, you can enjoy your headphones at ultimate level. When you want to hook it up to your speaker (whatever that might be), you can buy a power amp separately (be that MC225 or whatever).

EDIT: I only read your edit after the post.

If you are not bound to either amps, you can buy any headphone amp with line out. A lot of amps have these features, so you can browse/search around with the max price in mind.

 

[pyramid6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eertelppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... How will headphone amps drive speakers? thanks for the help, austin

Some can, like WA5 Speaker and Headphone Amplifier. They would need to have output for speakers.

Not everyone agrees, but you can get "better" sound cheaper with headphones.

 

[tosehee]

Speaker Amplifier Specifications:
Power output: <= 10W x 2, THD <= 3%, 1Khz
Frequency response: 16—38 Khz, -2dB
Output impedance: 8 ohms
Signal/Noise: >= 90 dB


That's little conservative to me. 300B can only do about 8.5w - 9w. Unless your speaker is very efficient, that won't be satisfactory.

$300 100wpc stereo amp can probably drive your speaker better than the WA5. Again, look at your speaker and every other things before making any decision.

If you are not concerned about the speakers atm, I wouldn't care much at all. I'd rather buy a very good headphone amp with line out option in case speaker setup comes up in the future.

 

[pyramid6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eertelppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... source -> speaker amp -> speaker pre-amp -> speakers/headphones source -> headphone amp -> speaker amp -> speakers/headphones source -> headphone amp -> speakers/headphones source -> speaker amp -> speaker pre-amp -> speakers source -> headphone amp -> headphones or any other crazy combinations ...

Do this:

source -> headphone amp

and this:

source -> speaker amp

You'll get better sound than adding extra components.

Unless you need a pre-amp, you don't need a pre-amp.

All pre-amps do is bring your source up to an acceptable level. The only time I know that you would need a pre-amp, is if you use a turn table and it doesn't have a pre-amp, or you want to bypass it.

Are you confusing pre-amps with mono-blocks? Because those are different beasts.

 

[eertelppa]

Ok guys I think I am beginning to understand.

-First of all I realized that pre-amps are not critical. I was unsure of their use but I guess they are needed if you need your source up to a better level. Still confused on the pre-amp, amp, mono-block, power amp, phono amp and all that. I guess my dad has to have something other than his source and his mc225 and speakers to make his system work. I have no idea whats in the cabinet underneath.

-Is something like the Fi YPH a mono-block? If it is a pre-amp, which I think it is a phono preamp then I guess people use it to help get more umph out of their source?

-I think I should take the advice of both of yall and maybe go the way for looking for a headphone amp (which I guess most have a pre-amp built in and if not its not neccessary anyway) that has a line out.

-The line out will enable me to hook up the headphone amp with a "power amp" later down the road?

-I guess the concern with headphone amps is that they may not be able to (even the ones that are sold to do both) efficiently run speakers. Which is why most likely I will start researching amplifiers that have a line out and are in my budget range.


Thanks again for the help guys. Slowly everything is coming together.


austin

 

[googleborg]

i asked a similar question here...http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/wor...ifiers-467319/

and got no replies, i guess because this is a 'done to death' topic? i was considering getting a headphone amp, but i know that the sound from my nad320bee is pretty good - all descrete components, blah blah - it cost me £120 including p&p off ebay, in as new condition with all packaging, and it's just so, so hard to justify spending that much, and easily more, on a tiny little box which seems to do the exact same thing as the preamp stage of my integrated. Is this a case of over-engineering? i see headphone amps with similar and higher mfarad power supply caps than my own 320bee (2x15000mf nad branded caps) and i think it's plain ridiculous, i can make my double glazing violently shake, how on earth could a headphones amp benefit from more capacitance than my speaker amp?

I feel it's a lot like cables, over-engineered examples (oil filled, lightspeed rated, etc) are everywhere as it's so easy to make a cable, pretty darned impossible to make a cable that doesn't conduct from one end to the other, and so, there are cables everywhere.

anyhow, i'm going to have to try some experiments (thanks to the poster who upped that image from joe grado), thankfully even decent second hand integrated amps are dirt cheap and everywhere, so if i get round to building that adaptor thingy and testing some amps i'll post my thoughts here

 

[gordonshowers]

Hi Austin.

In general, a music system has the following arrangement:

source -> pre-amp -> power-amp -> speakers

Usually, the "pre-amp -> power-amp" stage takes the form of a single box, an "integrated amp".

source -> integrated-amp -> speakers

It is generally accepted that separate boxes for the pre-amp and power-amp stages lead to a better quality of sound, and this is clearly the route your father has taken.

----------------------------------------

A headphone amp is typically a pre-amp. That is, most pre-amps are capable of powering headphones, and most headphone amps are capable of acting as a pre-amp.

Therefore, in general, a headphone amp will not be able to power speakers. You would need an additional power amp.

To summarise, there is absolutely no point in the following arrangement:

source -> pre-amp -> power-amp -> headphones

because the power-amp is redundant.

The two typical routes would therefore be:

source -> pre-amp -> headphones

source -> headphone-amp -> headphones

These are the generalisations that you requested, and you must always check before you buy because not every pre-amp is suitable as a headphone amp, and not every headphone amp is suitable as a pre-amp.

I hope I haven't confused matters for you even further......

 

[eertelppa]

No you helped out a lot. Thanks so much for explaining that all to me.

Austin

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by googleborg /img/forum/go_quote.gif i know that the sound from my nad320bee is pretty good - all descrete components, blah blah - it cost me £120 including p&p off ebay, in as new condition with all packaging, and it's just so, so hard to justify spending that much, and easily more, on a tiny little box which seems to do the exact same thing as the preamp stage of my integrated. Is this a case of over-engineering? i see headphone amps with similar and higher mfarad power supply caps than my own 320bee (2x15000mf nad branded caps) and i think it's plain ridiculous, i can make my double glazing violently shake, how on earth could a headphones amp benefit from more capacitance than my speaker amp?

My God, here's a man still posting on HeadFi who appears to have retained some semblance of sanity! The answer to your question, and the OPs for that matter, is that a good integrated like your NAD (which I've owned and used with numerous headphones) will be perfectly adequate for most headphones and 99% of listeners. Never imagine if you're enjoying the sound from your integrated or receiver that a headphone amp must sound better because it was made expressly for headphones. It may, but just as likely it won't unless it cost lots and lots of money, and even that's no guarantee. People talk about some headphones needing lots of current or whatever, but in what way will a well-designed amp like yours lack current or anything else feeding headphones? Can you imagine the NAD running out of steam, or leaving your phones underpowered? Won't happen. And as for the oft-stated argument that the output impedance of phone jacks on integrateds can affect the frequency response of phones, in theory it can, but in practise I've never heard the effect, even with low impedance phones (the most touchy). The only time I've noticed a definite mismatch is in trying to drive a 595 from a CMoy (nothing wrong with the amp, sounded great with a 650, but didn't like the 50ohm 595).

So there you have it. That's my view of the situation and no doubt it will displease many, as always. There's only one more thing to say: I wish I had double glazing.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So there you have it. That's my view of the situation and no doubt it will displease many, as always. There's only one more thing to say: I wish I had double glazing.

pp312, fair enough your entitled to your opinion, although from reading several of your posts and not just this thread, you don’t seem to speak from any experience with higher end gear.

Just remember it’s the small advances in the higher end realm that eventually trickle down and benefit the mid-fi sector. Sure we could all become complacent and build to an “adequate” standard, but then you’d have nothing to complain about.

 

[tosehee]

pp312.

Get a $100 DIY amp for your speaker and headphone. It'll meet your needs pretty darn good from your description.