Whats the deal with audio dealers?
Dec 13, 2008 at 3:23 PM Post #91 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd R /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Von Schweikert Audio pulled a similar stunt but right out in the open.
Right on their old web page was an option to buy on line much cheaper than retail. The dealers dropped like flies.



otoh, magnepan does a combo of 2 things (and keeps both parts separate). they have a $550 pair of 'maggies' (which I own and LOVE!) but those are mailorder only. and cheap (entry price) for electro's.

but the other maggies must be seen in person and only bought at the store.

that brand admits a dual approach works.

food for thought..
 
Dec 13, 2008 at 5:56 PM Post #92 of 164
K.I. You're disregarding what everyone else is saying and continuing to justify what you think is right with flawed logic. It isn't about what the people who want the music deserve, it is about what the people who make the music deserve. No one is talking about reporting their friends but you.

Linuxworks, your analogy is ludicrous. Artists weren't historically paid on a per use basis because recordings didn't exist. They were paid each time the music was played then, just as now. You might work for a salary, but I guarantee you the company you work for gets paid each time it sells a license to the code you wrote. Salaried musicians exist, just like salaried coders.
 
Dec 13, 2008 at 6:13 PM Post #93 of 164
I'm disregarding nothing. And I never intended on using logic in the first place - especially when you're dealing with something like piracy, no amount of logic works. With people (at least the producers and the middlepeople) who are mostly concerned about keeping their wallets full. And notwithstanding, pseudo-copyright supporters.

If I have to start fishing out articles on artistes taking a maverick approach to companies clamping down on torrentors and pirates (and who are clamping down only for their interests, and not for the SINGER's interests, but dares to use the singer(s)' name to crack down on pirates) and on torrent companies like isoHunt filing lawsuits against an Canadian licensing (I forgot if it's licensing, but something to do with media law coverage), then I think I'm better off going back lurking and reading on portable amplifiers.

Nevermind, let's do just that.

Some of the links might be quite off from what I'm talking about, but they speak my mind.

European Parliament Says No to Three-Strikes Law | TorrentFreak

Canadian Music Creators Coalition » Musicians to Industry Groups: “Not In Our Namesâ€�

And the link from isoHunt, one of the giants in torrenting, from their stance isoHunt - the BitTorrent and P2P search engine

And mind you, the hypocrisy and mistakes from those lobbyists/licensing companies in the name of "money-making", it makes me sick.

Whether you peeps read or no, I'm out. I do not have a perverse desire in derailing of threads, and I do not want to made out like I'm some pro-piracy kiddo.

This is the Internet age, and if you think there will ever be a time where authors and singers and bands get 100% of their cut - keep dreaming on.

Adios.
 
Dec 13, 2008 at 7:25 PM Post #94 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Linuxworks, your analogy is ludicrous. Artists weren't historically paid on a per use basis because recordings didn't exist. They were paid each time the music was played then, just as now. You might work for a salary, but I guarantee you the company you work for gets paid each time it sells a license to the code you wrote. Salaried musicians exist, just like salaried coders.



I'm predicting that once the dust settles, artists will lose their 'repeated payments'. one way or another it will happen. the kids are boycotting music (mostly) and the business will dry up or HAVE to adapt. it might take 10 yrs or more but I'm pretty sure the 'license' scheme will be discarded since IT DOES NOT WORK.

my analogy about the court jesters performing for the king does hold water. it proves that the 'pay us over and over again' model is NOT inherent in how humans see 'value'. this is a modern day made-up synthetic notion. it worked when you HAD to buy physical media, but now the crafty media folks are trying to have it both ways - its a 'license' but also its a 'dongle' and a 'hard piece of media'. so if I scratch my media, my LICENSE is still valid right? WRONG! they want us to re-buy it. so which is it, hmmm?

they are all wrong. their heads will tumble and that will be that. eventually
wink.gif


lets touch base in 10 yrs or so (lol) and see if the business model of today still exists for musicians. I predict it will be gone and some other model will be in place (finally).

as for my company making money on each installed instance, even THAT is not true; there are bulk licenses and even free-for-personal-use licenses.
 
Dec 13, 2008 at 8:33 PM Post #95 of 164
We agree that the music industry's take on what they should be paid for is untenable in many ways, true. Commercial entities like radio stations will continue to pay per-use fees, doubtless.

The bulk license and free-for-personal use license argument is semantic. Your company still dictates how it will be paid for its product, and consumers comply. Whether they comply by purchasing an individual license, or a participant of a bulk license, or even as the recipient of a free-for-personal use license is moot. Your company sets the rules, and consumers of your product follow them. If thy don't, they are stealing your software.

As to where the music industry will be in ten years, I thoroughly hope that it will be drastically different. I even expect it to be drastically different. I do not, however, feel that the state of the current system is justification for me to take what is not mine. On that point, we will apparently disagree.


For the record, I p2p download everything I watch, and a good deal of what I listen to. Isn't the popcorn hour great
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Dec 13, 2008 at 10:10 PM Post #96 of 164
how timely - another write-up on slashdot about this subject (pretty much):

Slashdot | 20-Year Copyright Extensions Coming To Europe

and sure enough, there was a post that you'd have thought I posted !
wink.gif


"What other industry do you get paid for for writing something, then sitting on your backside for the next 70 years watching the money come in? I wish I had such an employer willing to throw money at me for 70 years for writing code I wrote in my 20's."

its a COMMON sentiment. for that reason alone, its worth hearing and considering.
 
Dec 14, 2008 at 12:04 AM Post #97 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
this is a complex issue. those who want to reduce it to 'you are a thief' simply do not have the sophistication of abstract thought...


Please refrain from using the word "sophistication" in a sentence with incorrect capitalization
wink_face.gif
.

If you want abstract thinking, feel free to open a discussion on the intricacies of Finnegans Wake; I'll be the first to join. That's abstract thought; justifying theft is a thought process more at home in third grade.
 
Dec 14, 2008 at 5:35 AM Post #98 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please refrain from using the word "sophistication" in a sentence with incorrect capitalization
wink_face.gif
.

If you want abstract thinking, feel free to open a discussion on the intricacies of Finnegans Wake; I'll be the first to join. That's abstract thought; justifying theft is a thought process more at home in third grade.



*Nobody* is justifying theft here, thank you very much; we have already laid solid grounds on that one. I for one like to support my favourite artistes Sinatra and Enya (just to name a few), whether or not they're alive or dead.

Yet the fact that licensing companies and lobbyists EXPECT children and younger adolescents (let's say anything <16) to pay moolah & fines when they have only so much spending power, is simply ridiculous.

AND not to mention that as I've re-iterated at least TWICE, that some songs are very much inaccessible, or NON-EXISTENT as CD, DVD, vinyl, cassette tapes - whatever solid media that is. Like trying to find the OST for anime like Karas and Laputa : The Castle In The Sky - I'll like to see somebody try that. And NOT resorting to a ubiquitous market like eBay. I can tell you safely that they simply have little (or no) store coverage anymore.

And telling others to just enjoy alternative lossless music is *not* the point - some music have memorable or emotional value.

Why do I even bother trying to talk to thick-headed numbskulls. Tsk.
I'm out.
 
Dec 14, 2008 at 2:31 PM Post #101 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please refrain from using the word "sophistication" in a sentence with incorrect capitalization
wink_face.gif
.



I know you're joking a bit but I did want to reply to the 'no caps' thing. I get called on that a lot.

one thing: its sort of a unix culture thing for software people like me. even if it sounds strange, believe me, it is true and a lot of software guys 'gave up' doing caps since its really not needed. I mostly get my points across even though I rarely type caps.

second: I have carpal tunnel. bad ;( it *hurts* to hit the shift key. I'm not kidding. so I drop the shifts when I can.

just had to state that since I'm somewhat new here and I might as well get that lowercase-stuff out of the way
wink.gif



Quote:

If you want abstract thinking, feel free to open a discussion on the intricacies of Finnegans Wake; I'll be the first to join. That's abstract thought; justifying theft is a thought process more at home in third grade.


oh, so now you are *not* joking and are seriously slamming me?

maybe I misjudged your intent. if so then I won't reply to you anymore. I don't need people calling me names when I'm stating a perfectly valid case. you may not *agree* with my reasoning but to call me a 3rd grader? I think that's the first sign of giving up in an argument - its called 'ad baculum'. look it up (smart ass).
 
Dec 15, 2008 at 3:05 PM Post #102 of 164
Okay,

For the sake of argument, I'll bite. The two variables that may give one a moral grounds to steal music are age (young kids who otherwise cannot afford to buy) and the state of the economy (bad economic conditions justify theft). What about other things that people may want?

Those who belive this, please provide a matrix, with age on one axis and economic condition (e.g., unemployment figures) on the other with various goodies that one can reasonably steal at the crossing point. I am particularly interested in what mix of economic conditions and age would justify the theft of an Aston Martin Vantage.
 
Dec 18, 2008 at 1:13 AM Post #103 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by K.I. Unlimited /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yet the fact that licensing companies and lobbyists EXPECT children and younger adolescents (let's say anything <16) to pay moolah & fines when they have only so much spending power, is simply ridiculous.


I had very little money while I was in high school. My parents were loaded, but they were also penny pinchers. I rarely had more than $5 to my name. I think that, at its peak, my senior year music collection was around 20 to 30 albums. Somehow, I was pretty damned happy.

But today's kids (and let's be clear, 95% of the people stealing music online are kids) feel they are entitled to as much music as they need. Quantity, quantity, quantity! "OMG, Becky, u only hve 1800 sngs on yr iPod, yr such a lser."
 
Dec 18, 2008 at 1:19 AM Post #104 of 164
Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
oh, so now you are *not* joking and are seriously slamming me?

maybe I misjudged your intent. if so then I won't reply to you anymore. I don't need people calling me names when I'm stating a perfectly valid case. you may not *agree* with my reasoning but to call me a 3rd grader? I think that's the first sign of giving up in an argument - its called 'ad baculum'. look it up (smart ass).



I'm not saying you're a third grader; you seem bright enough. I'm saying that justifying theft is a morally (not intellectually) immature thought process. Anything can be justified intellectually; I could easily make an argument for killing people I disagree with. That same argument can't be made with any advanced set of morals.
 
Dec 18, 2008 at 4:40 AM Post #105 of 164
If going back to the original question.
I like buying things in store over the internet as I like customer service, I respond to a hands on approach better. If someone is explaining something to me in person I understand it far better than reading it in an email.
I like interaction, and physical side of holding and testing an objet I'm going to buy.
I see the increased price in shops as a service fee for this benefit. One I have no problem paying for generally.
I do think it's unethical to use a shop assistant's time, with the intention of buying somewhere else. Unless you are honest and tell them you're not interested in buying from them, then it's okay. If you just want to see the object, then when the shop assistant asks if he can help you say, 'I'm just looking'. That way you're not imposing on their time, and buy extension paycheck.
However niece items not commonly available I'll buy on the internet to save the hassle of searching for a store.

As far as illegal music downloads go. I used to download my music illegally, as I couldn't afford c.d's an wanted music. I blindly did this without thinking about the ethics.
Then one day I thought about it, and realized it was wrong (based on my own ethics). I think there's a major contradiction is claiming you're a fan of an artist, etc, while simultaneously stealing their music.
I don't care whether the recording industry is silly, etc. I based my decision on the artist.
I also made a change though, because I wanted the physical C.D's. I may be a dying breed, but I far prefer having a physical copy of something I can hold and cherish, than just a list on a computer screen. I like my C.D. rack that's against the wall displaying my collection.
I can then also burn it to the computer for the digital copy. If I'm paying for music, I don't mind paying a little bit more than say iTunes, to actually have a physical copy.
Even when movies, and music downloaded through the internet are as good quality (or for the sake of the conversation, even better) than the physical media, I'll still buy the object physically because I like actually owning something I can touch and cherish.
Maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned (I'm 19 BTW)
And to the people who say it's ludicrous an artist gets payments 70 years after recording a song, I think of it as like a patent. The person who initially took out the patent, still gets payments years afterwards as people use his idea.
The music industry is changing, and I'm increasingly becoming in the minority as far as my ideals go. It think the future will maybe be (although I'm no expert), the artist gets little for the CD/ recording, but makes most of their money through touring and doing concerts. All the internet and virtual media in the world won't impose of concerts and other live events.
 

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