[TheR0v3r]

Totally agree with this:

the lack for conformity in approach or perhaps more importantly lack of consensus as to exactly what's trying to be achieved, does mean that there are wide disparities in performance and functionality between different cables.

Maybe this comes from a lack of knowledge and expertise in the digital domain? Maybe some just don’t know what needs to be achieved?

Some manufacturers just seem to branch out from power cables and are applying their know how of building cables to, from their POV, nothing more than another kind of cable.

This is interesting and something I’d be happy to discuss:

my experience of making all types of digital cables, a USB cable is capable of has huge potential to influence the sound quality of digitally sourced system

Where do you see the potential? Not questioning, just curious.

 

[lator]

Where do you see the potential? Not questioning, just curious.

A real ear opener for me was comparing different Intona cables in my system. All models share identical materials, connectors and geometry, only difference being consistent 90 ohm throughout the cable. Considering this they all sound remarkably different.

 

[TheR0v3r]

A real ear opener for me was comparing different Intona cables in my system. All models share identical materials, connectors and geometry, only difference being consistent 90 ohm throughout the cable. Considering this they all sound remarkably different.

Equal length?

 

[lator]

Equal length?

All tested @ 1 meter length.

 

[TheR0v3r]

All tested @ 1 meter length.

Interesting.

One possibility is that “impedance continuity” is of larger importance in digital transmission of audio than in digital transmission in general.

One very well designed, constructed and measuring cable is the Supra Excalibur. Would it be possible for you to do a comparison between that cable and the different Intona’s?

 

[lator]

One very well designed, constructed and measuring cable is the Supra Excalibur. Would it be possible for you to do a comparison between that cable and the different Intona’s?

Sorry but only Ultimate left.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Sorry but only Ultimate left.

Then a comparison between the Supra Excalibur and Intona Ultimate will have to do

 

[lator]

Then a comparison between the Supra Excalibur and Intona Ultimate will have to do

Sure sent you pm.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Sure sent you pm.

Thanks, looking forward to your comparison

 

[iFi audio]

When it comes to integrity of the audio signal here I see some brands doing interesting things with a focus on handling noise.

That's a nice observation and we think that noise is harmful for audio playback quality, so figting it wherever possible is the way of getting better sound.

This is probably the one area were I have some kind of expertise, and not just experience,

Can you tell us more?

 

[TheR0v3r]

That's a nice observation and we think that noise is harmful for audio playback quality, so figting it wherever possible is the way of getting better sound.



Can you tell us more?

My “expertise” is just understanding digital as being more than 0 and 1 zipping through space. It maybe conceptually right but it’s not very helpful in understanding the areas you should be, and equally important, not be focusing on to improve your digital audio system.

Basically this is all about understanding the different layers involved in systems interconnection, from the physical layer all the way up to the application layer.

 

[iFi audio]

My “expertise” is just understanding digital as being more than 0 and 1 zipping through space. It maybe conceptually right but it’s not very helpful in understanding the areas you should be, and equally important, not be focusing on to improve your digital audio system.

Basically this is all about understanding the different layers involved in systems interconnection, from the physical layer all the way up to the application layer.

Agreed and thank you for this post. It makes a lot of sense to us. Enjoy your weekend!

 

[lator]

Thanks, looking forward to your comparison

Supra Excalibur vs. Intona Ultimate

At TheR0v3r's request here is a comparison between my reference USB cable Intona Ultimate and Supra Excalibur he kindly loaned me for this review.

This is quite an unusual pairing for a comparison test for sure considering the price difference of the cables in question. However while comparing them side to side build quality doesn't really reflect this.

I have tested dozens of USB cables before settling with Intona Ultimate and I gotta admit Excalibur has really impressive connectors. They are robust and machined with extremely low tolerances for solid connection. I would go as far as second best quality USB connectors I have encountered so far, kudos to Supra.

Good impressions continue as the cable itself is quite flexible and easy to manouver behind your equiment rack. Compared with multiple too thick for their own good and extremely stiff competitor cables I have encountered in the past, the Excalibur earns an excellent 9/10 for build quality and cable ergonomics.

So we are off to a good start here, but of course majority will be more interested about the sound comparisons. How much more sound can you get for spending 30 times the money?

The answer is quite a bit, but the Excalibur is definitely not a slouch. It certainly has a recognizable sound of it's own that colors more or less all recordings, but that is always the case no matter what cable you end up using. However with Excalibur the flavor is quite prominent and narrows the gap of varying quality records more than would be ideal.

Still the Excalibur "house sound" is quite inviting. First impressions show excellent imaging and sound stage width, good timing and perhaps most surprisingly unprecedented purity considering the price range. Decay of notes is also very realistic giving the sound fresh airiness and natural flow. The overall sound is a bit hollow slightly favoring upper mids, but I have heard much worse in below 300€/m category.

The biggest gripe that for me is impossible to shake is Excalibur's lack of bass extension. 1-1½ octaves it feels like subjectively making the bass dynamics heavily lacking and overall bass presentation quite mid bass centric. However this might not be so critical for everyone depending on what genres of music you enjoy. Chamber music and old school jazz fans might be quite satisfied but those listening to electro and other material containing low bass notes are left wanting more.

Other things of note are a lack of soundstage depth and layering. Sounds appear mostly along predictable left-right-center axle but as mentioned earlier the sound stage width is a positive. Ultimate offers more lifeblood narrowing the gap of the crucial illusion listening to live music vs. a recording. How it manages this is probably a combination of accurate timbre, improved microdynamics, 3-dimensional layering, more realistic sustain of notes and higher detail retrieval over the whole frequency range.

Even if my comparison might sound critical, overall I enjoyed the sound of the Excalibur. It is one of those cables that does enough to keep the focus on the music and avoids critical faults. In my system it probably sacrifices about 30 % of the overall sound, meaning it is easily among the best USB cables I have tested sub 300€ range earning a solid 7/10 rating for sound quality.

For current Excalibur owners the only cable that comes to mind I would recommend upgrading for is the Intona Premium that reaches about 85 % sound of the Ultimate making it also a bargain in it's own price range.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Thank you @lator for this review. I’m very impressed by your ability to capture the details and nuances in such a clear and concise manner

Now some comments:

Still the Excalibur "house sound" is quite inviting. First impressions show excellent imaging and sound stage width, good timing and perhaps most surprisingly unprecedented purity considering the price range. Decay of notes is also very realistic giving the sound fresh airiness and natural flow. The overall sound is a bit hollow slightly favoring upper mids

For a long time I’ve been switching between an Oyaide and the Supra depending on components in the system, mainly DACs. Your description of the Supra “house sound” is spot on and matches the way I’ve used it.

The biggest gripe that for me is impossible to shake is Excalibur's lack of bass extension. 1-1½ octaves it feels like subjectively making the bass dynamics heavily lacking and overall bass presentation quite mid bass centric.

Yepp. This is why I tend to gravitate towards the Oyaide even though the Supra has other strengths (as previously noted).

Other things of note are a lack of soundstage depth and layering. Sounds appear mostly along predictable left-right-center axle but as mentioned earlier the sound stage width is a positive.

Agreed.

For current Excalibur owners the only cable that comes to mind I would recommend upgrading for is the Intona Premium that reaches about 85 % sound of the Ultimate making it also a bargain in it's own price range.

You have certainly piqued my interest in the Intona Premium.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Today I connected the Supra Excalibur to my system. After listening to some tracks I just want to add some additional comments to @lator’s excellent comparison.

Still the Excalibur "house sound" is quite inviting. First impressions show excellent imaging and sound stage width, good timing and perhaps most surprisingly unprecedented purity considering the price range. Decay of notes is also very realistic giving the sound fresh airiness and natural flow. The overall sound is a bit hollow slightly favoring upper mids, but I have heard much worse in below 300€/m category.

This ”hollowness” is something I repeatedly hear when using silver plated cables. It’s very audible when for example listening to female vocals, there’s a harshness to the sound that is unnatural. In my system, and to my ears, copper (OCC/OFC) cables seem to work best. That is also in comparison to pure silver USB cables.

The biggest gripe that for me is impossible to shake is Excalibur's lack of bass extension. 1-1½ octaves it feels like subjectively making the bass dynamics heavily lacking and overall bass presentation quite mid bass centric. However this might not be so critical for everyone depending on what genres of music you enjoy. Chamber music and old school jazz fans might be quite satisfied but those listening to electro and other material containing low bass notes are left wanting more.

It may be a slight tilt towards the upper mids that also gives the impression of lacking bass extension. On Trentemöller’s ”Evil Dub” the low bass is there but the tonality of the cable shifts the focus to the mid bass and kind of fools our/my hearing.

Maybe these characteristics is what made it a favorite when used in my speaker setup?