[gimmeheadroom]

Well that excitement was short-lived
The Sundara arrived, hooked it up and didn't like it at all. I was hoping for more clarity and transparency, but was getting less of it compared to my Fidelio X2s.

The way I would describe it, it's basically its sound signature with most notably elevated mids compared to the X2s that result, to my ears, in over-present mids that for me destroy the transparency, as they dominate the sound too much. Not sure if that makes sense. Guess I'm just an old fart too used to the X2s V-shaped sound
For many tracks that I listened, it makes that the balance of instruments and vocals is different, which in principle is fine and something you will get used to over time. However, in some cases/tracks I simply cannot hear the details that I'm used to hearing.

Take as an example a track like 'Little White Lie' by Sammy Hagar. It's a pretty decent recording IMO, but near the end of the song all instruments (drums, guitars, harmonica) go into this big-bang finale that on my X2s still stays balanced, layered and transparent, just to use my own layman wording. I can hear the separate instruments clearly. With the Sundaya, I cannot hear anything anymore other than a huge cacophony of noise because the mids are overpowering everything.

So basically I would be spending time trying to at least EQ the mids down I think, but not sure if that would fix all problems. With tracks that didn't have the overpowering mids issue, the Sundara wasn't revealing anything that I couldn't already hear with the X2s, and as said sometimes they would even be less resolving.

It was a fun experiment, but I'll be going on a listening visit to some shop most likely when I want to continue this quest, instead of ordering blindly. For now, I have concluded that I'm very happy with my current headphones The Sundaya is already heading back to sender.

All gear takes time to get used to. New headphones take longer. Give yourself some time especially since you're aware the Fidelio has a V.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Well that excitement was short-lived
The Sundara arrived, hooked it up and didn't like it at all. I was hoping for more clarity and transparency, but was getting less of it compared to my Fidelio X2s.

The way I would describe it, it's basically its sound signature with most notably elevated mids compared to the X2s that result, to my ears, in over-present mids that for me destroy the transparency, as they dominate the sound too much. Not sure if that makes sense. Guess I'm just an old fart too used to the X2s V-shaped sound
For many tracks that I listened, it makes that the balance of instruments and vocals is different, which in principle is fine and something you will get used to over time. However, in some cases/tracks I simply cannot hear the details that I'm used to hearing.

Take as an example a track like 'Little White Lie' by Sammy Hagar. It's a pretty decent recording IMO, but near the end of the song all instruments (drums, guitars, harmonica) go into this big-bang finale that on my X2s still stays balanced, layered and transparent, just to use my own layman wording. I can hear the separate instruments clearly. With the Sundaya, I cannot hear anything anymore other than a huge cacophony of noise because the mids are overpowering everything.

So basically I would be spending time trying to at least EQ the mids down I think, but not sure if that would fix all problems. With tracks that didn't have the overpowering mids issue, the Sundara wasn't revealing anything that I couldn't already hear with the X2s, and as said sometimes they would even be less resolving.

It was a fun experiment, but I'll be going on a listening visit to some shop most likely when I want to continue this quest, instead of ordering blindly. For now, I have concluded that I'm very happy with my current headphones The Sundaya is already heading back to sender.

Amazing. I am just the opposite to you. I can't listen to anything with a v-shape FR curve. It sounds like the mids are veiled and that to me is a lack of transparency. It just reinforces the idea that audio is subjective and our preferences vary as much as there are flavors of ice cream.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Amazing. I am just the opposite to you. I can't listen to anything with a v-shape FR curve. It sounds like the mids are veiled and that to me is a lack of transparency. It just reinforces the idea that audio is subjective and our preferences vary as much as there are flavors of ice cream.

Agree, I can barely stand my TR-X00 for most kinds of music I listen to unless I use EQ, which I prefer not to do.

I think it's not even a preference for most people but instead it's just what people coming from mass market lowfi are used to. Any audiophile wants to hear the music not some caricature of it. But it takes time to readjust.

 

[silent-circuit]

I'll reiterate the above. Give your ears time to adjust; you're not hearing less, but more. The mids only 'overwhelm' because there were (relatively) none before.

 

[surfgeorge]

Well that excitement was short-lived
The Sundara arrived, hooked it up and didn't like it at all. I was hoping for more clarity and transparency, but was getting less of it compared to my Fidelio X2s.

The way I would describe it, it's basically its sound signature with most notably elevated mids compared to the X2s that result, to my ears, in over-present mids that for me destroy the transparency, as they dominate the sound too much. Not sure if that makes sense. Guess I'm just an old fart too used to the X2s V-shaped sound
For many tracks that I listened, it makes that the balance of instruments and vocals is different, which in principle is fine and something you will get used to over time. However, in some cases/tracks I simply cannot hear the details that I'm used to hearing.

Take as an example a track like 'Little White Lie' by Sammy Hagar. It's a pretty decent recording IMO, but near the end of the song all instruments (drums, guitars, harmonica) go into this big-bang finale that on my X2s still stays balanced, layered and transparent, just to use my own layman wording. I can hear the separate instruments clearly. With the Sundaya, I cannot hear anything anymore other than a huge cacophony of noise because the mids are overpowering everything.

So basically I would be spending time trying to at least EQ the mids down I think, but not sure if that would fix all problems. With tracks that didn't have the overpowering mids issue, the Sundara wasn't revealing anything that I couldn't already hear with the X2s, and as said sometimes they would even be less resolving.

It was a fun experiment, but I'll be going on a listening visit to some shop most likely when I want to continue this quest, instead of ordering blindly. For now, I have concluded that I'm very happy with my current headphones The Sundaya is already heading back to sender.

Sorry to hear that it didn't work out with the Sundaras!
But I agree with the other statements that it really takes time to adjust to a headphone or IEM, to understand its strengths and weaknesses and to come to a solid conclusion.
In my experience I need at least a week of frequent listening. In case of my favorite IEM, the Sony IER-M9, it took more than that, it was rather months than weeks until I fully understood and appreciated its capabilities.

Good luck with the store visit, I hope you find what you are looking for!

 

[redi1972]

Amazing. I am just the opposite to you. I can't listen to anything with a v-shape FR curve. It sounds like the mids are veiled and that to me is a lack of transparency. It just reinforces the idea that audio is subjective and our preferences vary as much as there are flavors of ice cream.

Agreed. To me it felt that I wasn't hearing anything new with the elevated mids compared to the X2s, but they obscured the rest of the spectrum for my ears/brain. The balance was gone for me.

And I do agree with the other comments that I (i.e. my brain) may be able to adjust to the new sound, yet I'm wondering whether there's an individual, hard-wired response in our brains to which a sound source (headphones) must be matched to get the best subjective result. Maybe I'm hearing mids already better than other people due to the response curve of my ears/brain?
To me, as soon as I got the X2s after a few years of using Grado headphones (SR225), it felt immediately like listening to natural sound, i.e. it sounded to me like how I would hear things if played in front of me in the real world. I've followed this feeling/intuition ever since.

Furthermore, if I'd need weeks or months to adjust to the sound of a new headphone, that means that I cannot compare different sets at all to judge whether one is nicer, better, more detailed etc. than the other. When I finally have gotten used to the new set, listening to the old set will sound bad/different again and I won't be able to compare unless I take time again to adjust, but then I already half forgot what the new set sounded like

I do trust my judgement that I wasn't hearing anything new with the Sundara that was hidden before with my current headphones, it just sounded different, and in some cases worse. So I'll first try and follow the path of finding similar-sounding headphones with better details, separation etc. and see where that gets me.

I appreciate all the comments and help!

 

[529128]

Well that excitement was short-lived
The Sundara arrived, hooked it up and didn't like it at all.

So sorry to hear this and that I made a recommendation that didn't work out for you! I also received mine yesterday and immediately fell in love again.

So I'll first try and follow the path of finding similar-sounding headphones with better details, separation etc. and see where that gets me.

Ears and taste are different. Trust your ears and build on that. I am sure you will be able to find something that caters for your tastebuds!

 

[redi1972]

So sorry to hear this and that I made a recommendation that didn't work out for you! I also received mine yesterday and immediately fell in love again.

No worries, it probably would have been the same with the Ananda that I first intended to purchase

Ears and taste are different. Trust your ears and build on that. I am sure you will be able to find something that caters for your tastebuds!

Exactly, you'll need to start somewhere to found out where you really want to go

 

[Chris Kaoss]

No worries, it probably would have been the same with the Ananda that I first intended to purchase


Exactly, you'll need to start somewhere to found out where you really want to go

I want to thank you for bringing Sammy Hagar to the table.
I was diggin his sound the whole last day. ^^
Sounds so great with Mojo and Era-1.
Went on my playlist on Tidal immediately.

 

[redi1972]

I want to thank you for bringing Sammy Hagar to the table.
I was diggin his sound the whole last day. ^^
Sounds so great with Mojo and Era-1.
Went on my playlist on Tidal immediately.

Glad to be able to give people new music ideas or tips. Now Tidal will give you all kinds of related artists to enjoy as well

 

[PopZeus]

It's not quite an upgrade in the most obvious sense, but I think the Meze 99 Classic (w/ new small pads and silver cable) is a legit step up from the X2 without costing a ton more. The sound signature is generally that same audiophile fun profile (more mid-bass, more upper mids, less upper treble on the 99s) though my memory of the X2 is a few years old. The detail and imaging is better on the 99s but the staging on the X2 might be bigger. That said, I think the 99s scale higher as you upgrade amplification and sources, but they can still be run off of phones and game consoles, and do a lot of the lifestyle things that the X2 specialize in.

 

[rlanger]

Don't forget also that Hifiman recommend 150 hours of burn-in time for a new set of Sundaras, and don't be afraid to try EQ as well. In my experience these cans accept EQ extremely well with little or no noticeable added distortion to my ears.

I'm using Oratory 1990's predefined EQ setting for Peace, so I didn't have to adjust anything, and for me, it's transformed my Sundaras from great to absolutely sublime. There are other pre-defined settings you can try based around the Harman target curve too. What works for me may not work for you so try a few different options.

So don't give up on them so quickly, as others have suggested too. They are truly remarkable headphones imo.

 

[redi1972]

Don't forget also that Hifiman recommend 150 hours of burn-in time for a new set of Sundaras, and don't be afraid to try EQ as well. In my experience these cans accept EQ extremely well with little or no noticeable added distortion to my ears.

I'm using Oratory 1990's predefined EQ setting for Peace, so I didn't have to adjust anything, and for me, it's transformed my Sundaras from great to absolutely sublime. There are other pre-defined settings you can try based around the Harman target curve too. What works for me may not work for you so try a few different options.

So don't give up on them so quickly, as others have suggested too. They are truly remarkable headphones imo.

Thanks for your comments. I may consider retrying the Sundara at a later time.
I must admit, though, that a headphone manufacturer recommending burn-in makes me very suspicious, as I don't believe in physical burn-in of headphones for various reasons (mainly because it has never been measured, i.e. it has been disproved by available measurements).

I'm also looking at the Quad Era-1 now after Chris Kaoss's comment , but its availability here in The Netherlands is quite poor.


And interestingly, I purchased a pair of Philips Fidelio X3's yesterday, as I was able to get them new for the amazing price of €23 as I had some vouchers still for the webshop I bought them at .
So the X3s sound very similar to the X2s, yet different because of the slightly less present lows (making the bass a bit tighter) and, ironically, slightly more forward due to elevated mids (at least to my ears). Not as much as the Sundara, but still noticeable to me. Really loving the sound of the X3, though I already have to get used to the less-pronounced V-sound of them. Shows how burned-in my brain is with the X2's sound . Perhaps a nice intermediate step to the Sundara or another set of cans, as I think most audiophile-ish headphones are more forward-sounding than the X2...