[HighwayStar]

Quote:

Originally posted by williamgoody And everyone I know who has a Mac never has had it crash or hang.

What the hell would I do all day ? Besides, those reboots make for a nice break

 

[williamgoody]

LOL

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by Flasken Yep, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a IBM t series or an Ibook. More recommendations/experiences are very welcome

Look into the IBM x series as well, they are very slim but need a lot of external hook ups. You'll definitely need a media slice with it.

 

[SBomm]

williamgoody , I know you don't know me but my previous computer, PowerMac, used to hang and crash almost daily.

 

[Kubernetes]

Quote:

If I had to buy an inexpensive PC laptop I'd go with a butt-ugly IBM

Hey man, some of us like that Darth Vader black!

Seriously, most people I know think the IBM's look rather sexy--at the very least they do not look cheap like those Dells.

Quote:

And everyone I know who has a Mac never has had it crash or hang.

Most any new laptop will come with Windows XP, which doesn't crash or hang either. But I agree that the iBook is a fine choice; if all the brother is interested in is surfing and basic office stuff, there's no reason to shy away from Macs. The only reason I wouldn't do it in his situation is because I have all this software already and wouldn't want to buy anew.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Flasken Well, turns out he HAS agreed to let me drag him in to an apple store. Afterall, the ibook is absolutely perfect for him. Does it come with ms Office??

No, but neither do the cheap Windows laptops. What it does come with is AppleWorks, which is so much better than Microsoft Works it's not funny (it even reads Word/Excel files). It's amazing that MS Office and MS Works come from the same company.

The iBook also comes with iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, etc., which are much better than the MP3/Movie/Photo apps that come with XP, as well as Outlook Express for Mac, which is better than OE for Windows. Basically, it comes with a lot more useful software than most Windows laptops at that price point. (You can also buy Office for it if you want.) You also get FireWire and 802.11b antennae built-in.

As Kubernetes pointed out, the only reason I would go with a PC laptop in your situation is if your brother already owned lots of software that he would have to replace.

The other cool thing is that OS X is much more flexible and (IMO) stable than XP. It has Apache, sendmail, CUPS, and many more UNIX tools built-in, along with full Windows VPN and Windows SMB/sharing support (both as a client and a server).

 

[kelly]

I'm going to go with popular opinion for a change.

If you don't need C# or Delphi and aren't a stubborn idiot, buy the Mac.

If you do need C# or Delphi (or maybe Maya or some other must-have program that's not on Mac) or really are just a stubborn idiot, buy the IBM Thinkpad.

My general opinion of computers is this: Apple is the only company today who builds good computers with quality parts. As an individual, it's not hard to assemble a WIntel PC using good quality parts yourself but all of the pre-built ones from major companies including Compaq, IBM, Gateway and Sony absolutely suck--Dell sucks least, in case you have to advise a stubborn idiot who must buy a desktop that must be PC compatible and can't be convinced to operate a screwdriver.

With laptops, building one yourself isn't an option. And frankly, how often do you need to program or use PC specific programs on a laptop? Need to check your email, surf the web, edit an image or a Word document? iBooks and Powerbooks do that just fine -- and they're smaller and have longer battery life.

So, as you can guess, I own a PC I built myself -- Lian Li case, Asus motherboard, AMD processor, Crucial RAM, Plextor CDRW, etc. and a stong desire to own a Mac PowerBook.

I'm thinking of buying an older, used PowerBook instead of a new iBook because the PowerBooks have larger monitors. As far as I know, the only reason to choose a new iBook over a used PowerBook would be the inclusion of a combo CDRW/DVD drive (the older Macs have DVD only drives). Anyone know otherwise?

 

[williamgoody]

SBomm? What was up with your Mac? Was it a hardware or software problem?

 

[shivohum]

Hrmm, I am definitely going to have to weigh in on the PC side here. I have good experience with Dell and IBM.

Dell in particular has a nice plan called a Complete Care warranty. If you travel a lot, it may be a good investment. From my imperfect recollection, it covers all damage to the laptop except fire, theft, and possibly intentional damage (if they can prove that). But drop your laptop--they'll fix it. Spill coffee on it, ditto. Toshiba has something similar. The Dell Inspiron I owned as of last year also had exceptional battery life: 4.5 hours doing light word processing tasks as of last year.

Thinkpads, though, are better built and are better looking. I would have no hesitation going with one of these, either, since they have excellent service, though they lack a Complete Care option and the T23 I own right now has a battery life of only 2.5 hours at best.

As for the Mac vs. PC debate, there's really little reason to go with a Mac right now, unless you are used to its interface. Windows XP is basically stable.

Some basic popular programs are available on both platforms (word processing, internet, email), but the enormous majority of interesting software is for the PC. Look at games, for instance, if you're interested in those. Many games are never released for the Mac. Look at shareware. A lot of very interesting and highly useful shareware is never released for the Mac. I also really like the right-click that PCs have.

 

[williamgoody]

"Windows XP is basically stable"

Not in my opinion, and not according to a lot of people.
It's more stable than past versions absolutely, but IMHO stability wise, it doesn't compare to a Mac os platform.

I can't tell you how many times I get this message:
"Windows has encountered an unknown problem and has to shut this program down." or something to that effect.

I definitely still have use for my PC as it does have capabilities software wise that a Mac either doesn't or that I can afford right now, but that gap is narrowing.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by shivohum As for the Mac vs. PC debate, there's really little reason to go with a Mac right now, unless you are used to its interface. Windows XP is basically stable.

Have you ever noticed that Mac users never speak about the stability of their operating system? Ever wonder why that is? It's never been an issue for them.

Windows XP is NOT as stable as Windows 2000. Windows 2000 is not as stable as Mac OS X.

Quote:

Some basic popular programs are available on both platforms (word processing, internet, email), but the enormous majority of interesting software is for the PC. Look at games, for instance, if you're interested in those. Many games are never released for the Mac. Look at shareware. A lot of very interesting and highly useful shareware is never released for the Mac. I also really like the right-click that PCs have.

I'd say you could find the same people on either side of this debate.

As for games, one could argue that the most popular games tend to crossover to the Mac. More importantly, in my view, it's stupid to buy a laptop for the purpose of playing game. If you want PC games, you want a desktop/tower with a fast processor and the latest generation 3D video card. Or you want a game console.

But it does make a point: decide what you intend to use the laptop for. For the purposes I imagine laptops most useful for (keeping track of contacts, emailing, surfing the web, playing a cd/dvd, transferring data, editing 2d graphics images, editing html), the Mac is as good or better than the PC. If you're planning to use your laptop mostly to play games then maybe Mac isn't the way to go.

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

Have you ever noticed that Mac users never speak about the stability of their operating system? Ever wonder why that is? It's never been an issue for them.

Wow, I think this is highly misinformed. Go check out the Mac newsgroups or some posts on Mac discussion boards. There are plenty of people speaking about problems.

Maybe you have the very informally gathered colloquial impression that "Mac users" as some amorphous general form seem to complain *less* about their o/s than Windows users, but even if it were true, there are many possible reasons for that:

1) There are more PC users. More users, more configurations, a more diverse array of usages, all this spells more problems.

2) PC users have access to more software. More software means more bugs. How many bugs have been attributed to the O/S that are actually software-based?

3) PC users are probably more vocal about their problems than Mac users. After all, Mac users often take pride in their status as underdogs, connoisseurs. Thus they may have an incentive not to badmouth their "team." For PC users, on the other hand, it is customary to badmouth Microsoft (not that in many cases they don't deserve it).

Quote:

Windows XP is NOT as stable as Windows 2000. Windows 2000 is not as stable as Mac OS X.

XP is pretty stable on an absolute scale. I think SP1 puts it on par with 2000 or betters 2000. But of course all this is speculation on my part, as is the claim that 2000 is not as stable as OS X, unless you have some evidence.

Quote:

As for games, one could argue that the most popular games tend to crossover to the Mac.

And if the popular game is not what you want to play?

Quote:

More importantly, in my view, it's stupid to buy a laptop for the purpose of playing game. If you want PC games, you want a desktop/tower with a fast processor and the latest generation 3D video card. Or you want a game console.

What if you travel and want to play a game? What if your laptop is your sole PC?

And who says we're talking exclusively about FPS or flight-sim games that require fast processors and 3D cards? How about simple RPGs like Planescape:Torment or Neverwinter Nights that don't require such extensive hardware?

Quote:

For the purposes I imagine laptops most useful for (keeping track of contacts, emailing, surfing the web, playing a cd/dvd, transferring data, editing 2d graphics images, editing html), the Mac is as good or better than the PC.

Oh? In what way is a Mac better at any of these tasks? At each of these tasks the PC has access not only to best-of-breed general software, but also to a vast spectrum of specialized software that takes care of exceptional situations.

 

[kelly]

This has become a religious argument and I'll concede it. Please continue to believe that PCs are just as stable and easy to use as Macs only they have more software that people care about. Spread the faith and help destroy these awful rumors that the Windows family of operating systems is a bloated unstable legacy software crashes, freezes and hogs system resources. It's all a myth created by the evil Mac conspirators because they love crap.

 

[grinch]

laptops suck, buy a desktop.

and sendmail sucks!

and the only apple i'd ever buy would have to be this one

 

[acs236]

I've built my last few PCs. I'm no expert, though once I may have considered myself so. I agree with Shivohum that Windows has alot more to contend with in terms of supporing various hardware, and that this fact has to do with some of Windows stability issues. That being said, based on personal experience, I've found Windows XP has been stable. I still yearn for the day when Microsoft is out of the picture, when I don't have to "install" programs to get the to work, or "remove" them to get them completely out of my system. That would be nice.