[kin0kin]

I've heard a lot of speakers throughout the last few weeks but none of them sounded like the 600s. I'd think the Focal Electra 1000 Be sounded pretty close, but the mid range to mid bass is warmer than the 600s and the bass is not as well controlled.

Speakers heard:

- Focal Alto Utopia Be
- Focal Electra 1000 Be
- Lafleur X1
- Spendor ST
- Paradigm Ref Studio 60/100
- PSB Imagine, Synchrony One/Two
- Monitor audio SG20, SG60
- Quad 12L2/22L2 (i kinda like them, cept that midrange is forward, and bass is a tad boomy)
- Quad ESL-2805
- Sonus Faber Grand Piano
- Neat Motive 2

Few speakers I'm about to hear:
- Galo Ref 3.1
- Audio Note
- PMC
- ATC
- Tannoy Prestige Stirling
- B&W 8xx
- Gershman
- Focal Micro Utopia
- Focal Diablo Utopia

 

[vrao81]

I use Onix Ref 1 and I have the Sennheiser HD580 headphones. I feel they are comparable. The Onix has cleaner lower mids and midbass that you are talking about. Look at the Onix Ref 3 and Onix Strata Mini as well.
I also had PSB Stratus Mini and these were similar to the Sennheiser sound, but the Onix is more refined overall, more detailed, and less harsh (PSB uses metal dome tweeters).
I haven't heard many other speakers.

 

[Uncle Erik]

There are some similarities with the ProAc Response 2.5 clones I built. The 2.5 is no longer on the market, but they are available used, a fairly easy DIY project (cost me about $1,200) and I think ProAc has a slightly revised version on the market, but I can't remember the model.

You might also want to consider some singledriver speakers - they will give you the same coherence that headphones do. Check out the Jordan JX92S, Cain & Cain's lineup, Lowthers, and if you want to go truly exotic, look into field coils from Supravox and Fertin.

 

[mulveling]

The Tannoy Prestige might do you, there. I've found the coherence and top-to-bottom integration of the Tannoy dual-concentrics to match (exceed, in the upper lines like Dimension/Prestige) that of the Sennheiser HD600/650, like no other speakers I've heard. That, and they also do a superb job at all the great stuff a top-notch speaker SHOULD do much better than headphones: soundstage, imaging, visceral impact, dynamics, etc. I really REALLY like the results of Tannoy's effective near-point-source via their dual-concentric drivers. You get maximum dynamics AND coherence AND good efficiency. The pepperpot horn & alnico unit is a bit better, but the tulip waveguide units are still superb.

Some of the Prestige stuff is scary good, given a competent setup. Hell, some of the "lower" lines can be right up there too. These speakers tend to like being 7-8 feet apart, and each about 8-10 feet from the listener. Toe-in to 15 degrees off axis. Medium to medium/large-ish sized rooms are best for the 10" models. Keep 'em out of those 12'x12' bedrooms (look into the Autograph mini in that case!)

You should find the Prestige line to be superb, tonally. A touch less bright than the HD600 (and much, much cleaner at the top), a touch less dark than the HD650. Very liquid mids.

These are definitely speakers optimized for the maximum enjoyment of music at home, not for the boom & sizzle in showrooms & demos. Bring a diverse variety of music that you know and like - orchestral, metal, rock, pop, etc...

I loved the Prestige Kensington SE so much, I sold off an L3000, a Qualia 010, a Zana Deux, a Martin Logan Depth i, and some other smaller stuff to buy them. Way worth it

 

[pcf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are some similarities with the ProAc Response 2.5 clones I built. The 2.5 is no longer on the market, but they are available used, a fairly easy DIY project (cost me about $1,200) and I think ProAc has a slightly revised version on the market, but I can't remember the model. You might also want to consider some singledriver speakers - they will give you the same coherence that headphones do. Check out the Jordan JX92S, Cain & Cain's lineup, Lowthers, and if you want to go truly exotic, look into field coils from Supravox and Fertin.

D25 was the revised model of Response 2.5. Their mid range is supposed to be amongst the best money can buy and they have a great soundstage. A lot of people also liked the bass of 2.5 better than their big brother 3.5 and 3.8.
I certainly enjoy the sound of my D25. Some think their bass is difficult to control and probably ProAc thought the same way too and quickly brought out a new model D28. I couldn't detect big improvement from them against my D25. Response 2.5, D25/28 all work very well with tube amps.
I can imagine a Senn 600/650 owner being happy with these speakers.
D25/28 retail for about $6000. 2.5 can be picked up used for $2500 to $3500. I never heard a pair of clone 2.5. If they sound anywhere near the real thing for $1200, they are bargains.

 

[kin0kin]

It's funny. I see the word coherence showing up so frequently when head-fi talks about speaker, but less frequently from the speaker-dudes. I guess we've been spoiled by the single driver, perfectly coherent sound that we've been listening to.

I usually bring wide music genre to audition speakers - double bass, cello, viola, violin, piano, sax, classical, jazz, pop, rock (90s), vocals, and etc.

One issue I have with the Tannoy Prestige is the 60's cabinet design....My decor is contemporary, having a pair of old skool looking speaker in the room is ugh....(yeah yeah I know, sound comes first)

 

[donunus]

try the magnepan 1.6

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's funny. I see the word coherence showing up so frequently when head-fi talks about speaker, but less frequently from the speaker-dudes. I guess we've been spoiled by the single driver, perfectly coherent sound that we've been listening to. I usually bring wide music genre to audition speakers - double bass, cello, viola, violin, piano, sax, classical, jazz, pop, rock (90s), vocals, and etc. One issue I have with the Tannoy Prestige is the 60's cabinet design....My decor is contemporary, having a pair of old skool looking speaker in the room is ugh....(yeah yeah I know, sound comes first)

Absolutely - I was a hard convert away from headphones over to speakers because of three reasons, primarily: the coherence issue, room interactions, and the much higher cost of getting it all right!

Yep, a lot of folks don't dig - or just outright hate - that Prestige look

I happen to live in a very old building (> 100 years), am perfectly happy with an eclectic mix of things, and I love their style.

Within the Prestige series, the two Glenair models (a 10" and a 15") have a completely different look - contemporary and clean. The 10" is perhaps a bit overpriced for its size, but importing from the UK may be a very attractive option if the pound is still weak (haven't checked recently). That goes for the Stirling too. The USA retail prices in dollars seem to be nearly 2x the retail price in British pounds - not a very good rate. Sonically, they should be a small step above the Stirling - I've heard the Glenair 10 and they're excellent. The bigger ones are supposed to be much better for not much more money, but they're BIG.

Outside the Prestige, there are some discontinued and current lines that are VERY good, overlapping with the lower-half of the Prestige line (for sound quality and price) in some cases. Styling is typically much more contemporary. The new Definition line should be excellent...

 

[kin0kin]

Few consistent comments that I've received from dealers after telling them a little about my head-fi background:

1) You have very high expectation/requirements
2) You are spoiled by headphones

3) For perfect coherence, you need to look at fullrange/horn/electrostat.

Unfortunately I'm not a big fan of horn sound, but was told that the Prestige is sort of a horn but doesn't have the honky/nasal mid range. I like the Quad ESL-2805 quite a bit (despite the common issues with electrostat - bass not deep, lack the punch and weight that dynamic drivers deliver) but it's too axial/position specific, like ribbon tweeters, that I have to sit right in the middle to avoid balance issue.

The dealer carrying the Tannoy Prestige only has the Stirling on demo right now, he's getting the Turnberry in soon enough. I only have room to accommodate the Stirling and the smallest Turnberry. The rising commodities in Canada and declining economy in the states means shopping time

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Tannoy Prestige might do you, there. I've found the coherence and top-to-bottom integration of the Tannoy dual-concentrics to match (exceed, in the upper lines like Dimension/Prestige) that of the Sennheiser HD600/650, like no other speakers I've heard. That, and they also do a superb job at all the great stuff a top-notch speaker SHOULD do much better than headphones: soundstage, imaging, visceral impact, dynamics, etc. I really REALLY like the results of Tannoy's effective near-point-source via their dual-concentric drivers. You get maximum dynamics AND coherence AND good efficiency. The pepperpot horn & alnico unit is a bit better, but the tulip waveguide units are still superb. Some of the Prestige stuff is scary good, given a competent setup. Hell, some of the "lower" lines can be right up there too. These speakers tend to like being 7-8 feet apart, and each about 8-10 feet from the listener. Toe-in to 15 degrees off axis. Medium to medium/large-ish sized rooms are best for the 10" models. Keep 'em out of those 12'x12' bedrooms (look into the Autograph mini in that case!) You should find the Prestige line to be superb, tonally. A touch less bright than the HD600 (and much, much cleaner at the top), a touch less dark than the HD650. Very liquid mids. These are definitely speakers optimized for the maximum enjoyment of music at home, not for the boom & sizzle in showrooms & demos. Bring a diverse variety of music that you know and like - orchestral, metal, rock, pop, etc... I loved the Prestige Kensington SE so much, I sold off an L3000, a Qualia 010, a Zana Deux, a Martin Logan Depth i, and some other smaller stuff to buy them. Way worth it

You are absolutely right. JESUS CHRIST! these speakers rock! here's an impression I posted in another forum:

Quote:

I heard the Tannoy Prestige Stirling at Rob's place earlier and I was pretty much blown away. The listening area was not ideal and it was a little too nearfield for me. I tried to move back as much as possible to give the mid range and tweeter a little more delay. I had to sit on the floor to get them to ear level. I'd say about 10 ft away from them is a good distance. Problem - They are pretty short, just as tall as the Quad ESL-2805 and would benefit from a 1-2ft stand depending on your seating height. Rob preferred it to be slightly below ear level but it didn't work for me because the presentation and height became OOW (out of whack). I needed it to be at ear level. Coherence is absolutely not a problem with this speaker. If you could detect any detachment from bass, to mid range, to highs, I applaud you because I could not. Funny thing is that the speakers don't have the honky mids as heard from usual horn speakers. Rob had told me about this before and it's really true. The mids sounded so clean and smooth with no peaks that I could detect - it doesn't sound shouty. Vocals sounded very clean, with no dryness or harshness that bothers me. But I do prefer it to be slightly warmer and lusher, which is why I'm looking to hear the Turnberry. It's not a complaint, I would bring the speaker home but if the Turnberry sounds a little warmer, I'd take the Turnberry home instead...well between these two that is. The lows were great, and didn't seem like anything was lacking. Very smooth transition from the bottom most octave to the mid bass. It does bass guitar without a sweat, same goes with Cello. wow :shock: On some bass guitar tracks...the whole floor was resonating. One thing I noticed was the upper end, around the harmonics frequencies I'd think, sounded a little thin. Trumpet sounded pretty thin at the edge. In the end, I stepped down the highs by -3db and it sounded better. I did not try them again with the trumpets, I wasn't a big fan of brass instrument, but acoustic strings has more weight to it and sounded more realistic. I don't think anybody would need the supertweeter with the Stirlings. I intend to use the speakers in a larger area than Rob's living room, and I'd like to hear them with different placement....at least 10ft away from the speakers. They are at the top of my list now and has the highest chance in being brought back to my home. Those minor nitpicks that I have are very minor, and I can work around the electronics to make them perfect for me. I can't say that playing around with electronics on the other speakers could give me what I want, though. WOW, finally there's one that I'm really impressed and would buy :lol: Besides going to audition more speakers, I'm waiting for Rob to open up a pair of Turnberry so that I can do a direct comparison between them. Btw, I had the best time talking to Rob, absolutely wonderful guy

Do you think the Turnberry would deliver more bass/warmer sounding than the Stirling? I just need to mid range -> mid bass band to be ever slightly warmer than it is, just not as warm as the hd600. Btw, they are pretty bright sounding to me

 

[Uncle Erik]

If you enjoyed the electrostats but want a stronger lower end, take a look at the Kithara speakers with AMTs and an omnidirectional woofer.

I have not heard the Kithara, but have owned the ESS AMT-1. I can tell you that the AMT delivers. The ESS falls down with bass integration, though I tweaked that with modern woofers and a few other upgrades. If the Kithara is as tight as that, it might be what you're looking for.

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are absolutely right. JESUS CHRIST! these speakers rock! here's an impression I posted in another forum: Do you think the Turnberry would deliver more bass/warmer sounding than the Stirling? I just need to mid range -> mid bass band to be ever slightly warmer than it is, just not as warm as the hd600. Btw, they are pretty bright sounding to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are absolutely right. JESUS CHRIST! these speakers rock! here's an impression I posted in another forum: Do you think the Turnberry would deliver more bass/warmer sounding than the Stirling? I just need to mid range -> mid bass band to be ever slightly warmer than it is, just not as warm as the hd600. Btw, they are pretty bright sounding to me

Cool!! Very glad you liked them!

I haven't heard the Turnberry or Stirling model myself, unfortunately. On paper, the Turnberry should have more bass extension and impact than the Stirling. The cabinet size, driver size, and specs are VERY similar to that of my Kensingtons, so I would expect the same bass performance - in which case you will NOT be disappointed there. I wouldn't have expected a significant shift in voicing beyond that, on the other hand I wouldn't classify any of the 10" models I've heard as bright, at all. Definitely - experimentation in room/acoustic setup, toe-in, and even amplifiers can yield gains in many of the areas you noted. I do prefer tube amps on the Prestige models I've heard (all of them larger than the Sirling, I believe). Fortunately the 93db/Watt 8 ohm load (honest specs, easy impedance curve I would assume, based on my Prestige experiences) of the Turnberry/Kensington gives you a LOT of choices. You'd be surprised just how loud, and clean you can play with around 20-35 good watts. I've been partial to vintage tube amps myself lately - Heathkit W4-AM, Heathkit W5-M, and Eico HF-87 - all superb once properly restored. For newer gear, I know that the Rogue tube amps sound really damn good with Tannoys, too. The Manley Stingray/Mahi/Snapper stuff looks very appealing as well, though I've not heard them yet.

I noticed a significant improvement in bass impact (and overall dynamics) moving from the 10", smaller cabinet (65 Liters volume IIRC) Dimension TD10 to the 10", 105 L Kensington. Of course that may also make room acoustics & placement more crucial. The Turnberry is right up there at 100 L. The difference is a shorter/wider profile and the tulip waveguide/horn & standard magnet versus pepperpot/alcomax magnet. The latter does seem to impart a touch of "sweetness" to the mids (compared to all the tulip models I've heard, at least), though I wouldn't go quite so far as to call it a warm/lush coloration. Unfortunately, Tannoy also charges dearly for that. If I didn't get the chance at demo/floor model Kensington SEs, the Turnberry SE is what I'd be looking at myself. I get the distinct impression that the Turnberry is the favorite price/performance model in the Prestige line, in places where Tannoy is actually popular (UK, Japan). Looks like a better speaker & deal than the Glenair 10 honestly (which is an excellent sounding speaker itself). Don't think you can go wrong there

 

[kin0kin]

Just to clarify that I'm not ignoring other suggestions and I'd like to hear all of them out throughout the next few weeks, provided that I can find them around my area. Please keep the suggestion coming, my current favorite/reference point is definitely the Tannoy Prestige line.

@ mulveling

The front end of the speaker was - Cyrus CDP, Sugden amp, and a pretty bright Kimber. The stirling did sound a little peaky to me but it may just be the Stirling. The dealer did tell me that the Turnberry are made to provide more bottom end, and might just work for me. I'm waiting for him to open up the pair (if he's not selling them) and wait a couple of weeks for him to burn them in before a second visit. The way I look at it is, there's 580, 600, and 650 in front of me. If the Stirling was the 580, and there's the 600, I want to know that I am buying the 600, not the 580, or the 650. My nitpicks are very minor on those speakers, and I believe I can work that out with "synergy" and placement.

I'd only be able to accommodate up to the Kensington, both in terms of $$ and room size. He had the Glenaire + supertweets in the house but they were not hooked up. I passed on hearing them because they are oversized for the room, oversized for my wallet, and would take too much time to set them up. Perhaps some other day I'd check them out.

I've been told at least by 3 people that they do wonder with SET but the dealer prefers it with the Sugden. I'd worry about the front end later but I'm pretty sure that the DAC-1 that I love so much with the Senns will not work with the Tannoys.

Can I join the Tannoy fanclub too?

EDIT: I don't know if you guys agree. I just heard the Gershman X-cube 2 and they sounded awfully like the HD650.

 

[FlyingFungus]

I haven't heard too many speakers before but I think my favourite so far have to be Tannoy's Revolution Signature series. Now I really want to hear some of there other speakers.

 

[kin0kin]

Actually I think I found the speaker. It's the Opera Callas Divina. But now I'm trying to see if there's better speakers out there.