[jodokast]

No comments on Macs.......*smirks*

Order of my O/S

Win 98SE --> Win 2k --> WinXP Pro

Also run a couple linux distro on my backup machine. Right now I"m just running XP Pro. No dual boot.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ctn You are kidding right?

It appears that some Apple freaks actually believe this! Let them think what they like, i know my machine can run circles around their Macs, i mean what software do they have anyway? I think they just got Quake and Doom last year, lol

 

[Russ Arcuri]

Quote:

Originally posted by gloco It appears that some Apple freaks actually believe this! Let them think what they like, i know my machine can run circles around their Macs, i mean what software do they have anyway? I think they just got Quake and Doom last year, lol

Take it from someone who has used and knows both systems exhaustively -- Mac hardware, from a technical perspective, is superior in many ways (performance per Mhz, absolute performance for many tasks, industrial design, durability, first-to-market with capabilities, etc) and has been for a long time. I've been building, maintaining, troubleshooting, and supporting both platforms since 1988.

PC bigots like to cling to certain myths -- "Macs don't have software" (an ignorant statement if I ever saw one), "Macs are toys" (judging a book by the cover), "Macs cost too much." That last one is the funniest of all. Show me a PC built to the same exacting specifications for durability, performance, and features as a comparable Mac, and I'll show you a PC that somebody spent many hours custom building and in the end cost as much or more than the Mac.

No one computer can be all things to all people, and it's a logical fallacy to assume that because something is not available on a given platform that somehow the platform is inferior. Gaming is a great example -- PC bigots like to pretend that because some games are not released for the Mac or are relased later than the Windows version, that the Mac is therefore inferior. In fact, it's market forces that determine whether a game will be released for Macs. If the game maker can make a significant amount of money releasing a game for a Mac, they will release it. If they don't think the market is there, they don't.

Then again, games aren't the only apps. It just depends on what you want to do. The very best non-linear video editing programs are released for the Mac first and Windows second, if they're released for Windows at all. Photoshop existed on the Mac platform for years before Adobe saw fit to make a Windows version. I still have a copy of Photoshop 1.0 somewhere around here... my roommate in college used to send me graphic files over a home-made Mac <--> PC serial cable strung around our dorm room at 115,000 baud so I could manipulate them on my Mac Plus (with a 9" monochrome screen) and then send them back to him. There was nothing available for Windows that could even simulate these capabilities.

I had an, uh, "acquaintance" at my house a few months ago who chuckled to himself when he saw my 6 year old Mac clone sitting in my dining room (it's the kids' computer). "Why don't you get a real computer -- one that can run linux?" he asked, jokingly. So I booted it up into linux for him while he watched -- I had it set up to dual-boot at the time. This 6 year old Mac running linux will run circles around any linux-running PC 4 years old or older, running the same programs. He couldn't believe there was a linux distro for the Mac, and I had to browse the web to find a few other Mac linux distros just to prove to him that there was more than one -- including his favorite, Mandrake.

In any case, Mac bigots like to cling to their own sets of myths. Macs are not "immune" from viruses -- there are a stable of Mac viruses out there capable of making a user's life miserable. I was one of the first dozen people to have his Mac infected by the MBDF virus back in 1992. Nasty -- I ended up having to rebuild the HD from a backup. Another myth Mac bigots cling to is that Windows never catches up. Just because Windows users couldn't use Photoshop in 1990 or 1991, doesn't mean they couldn't do it a few years later. Both platforms are growing and evolving, and Win2K and XP offer a far better computing experience to Wintel users than previous versions did.

These arguments are old and I doubt the Wintel or Mac bigots will really care what I think. But, as I've been told (in private) by another Head-Fier, I can be an argumentative S.O.B., and it's hard for me to let ignorant statements pass.

 

[eric343]

GO Russ!

Very well said. I use both, and my Mac is so much better designed (hardware-wise) than most PC equivalents (read: laptops around $2500) it's not even funny. Even my dad's IBM ThinkPad needs an external media slice to reach the built-in capabilities of the TiBook, and even then it dosen't have the ultracool screen. And the logo dosen't light up

Russ Acuri for Moderator in 2002!

 

[gloco]

Russ,

This is what it comes down to, for me:

I walk into a store, i see ROWS AND ROWS of software for PC.

I see a small tiny fraction for MAC. Now, what am i, as a consumer, supposed to think?

Only people who are diehard about Apple buy Mac's. The general consumer buys: PC which equals to what? 99.9% of the general population. Most Mac's are bought by companies and some users who use a Mac at work.

My brother worked at JandR (which probably has the largest selection of Mac titles in Manhattan) for over a year and told me countless run-ins he had with Mac customers, i won't repeat what he said, but it made me laugh my ass off. Personally, i have no use for a Mac and i've never used one, so i honestly dont have anything personal against Apple or the Mac (i'm neutral! I swear!). As a general consumer, i like ROWS AND ROWS of software to choose from. It's not a myth, its the truth. Do you understand why i mean?

One more point, it does take years, sometimes, for a PC title, to arrive on the Mac platform. That tells me something about avoiding a Mac, of course people who work in editing love their Macs and that's cool, it has its uses. I've worked in companies that ONLY used PC's, and one of them was AMEX...and that's a lot of PC's! Opinions: they are what they are

 

[Audio-Me]

When it comes to work, I go for Mac, when it comes to home use, PC. Not a bigot of either worlds.

gloco - have you ever used a Mac? I'm not talking about 5 minute quick web browsing at the local Cafe using colorful iMacs. I mean a high performance workstation.

 

[chych]

Apple has 5% market share, not thins 0.1% you dream of, gloco.

Anyways, this thread has gone to hell, someone should close it.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me When it comes to work, I go for Mac, when it comes to home use, PC. Not a bigot of either worlds. gloco - have you ever used a Mac? I'm not talking about 5 minute quick web browsing at the local Cafe using colorful iMacs. I mean a high performance workstation.

Read my post above.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by chych Apple has 5% market share, not thins 0.1% you dream of, gloco. Anyways, this thread has gone to hell, someone should close it.

Wow, thats a lot

LOL, guys RELAX. I don't have any ill will towards Apple, Mac, etc.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me I feel that G4 based Macs are much better than Athlon or P4 based PCs. However, it's the operating system that I have beef with. Windows is just much more convenient to use, especially software selection. It also helps that I hate the use of the apple key (replaces Ctrl, argh!), but love the windows key.

"More convenient" -- what, it's in a more accessible position on your desk?

As for software, apart from some games and very specific markets for specialized software, it's pretty much a hollow argument. You can get software for pretty much any purpose on both platforms. The quality of available software is probably a better argument (for both sides).

As for the Apple key, that's basically a "what I'm used to" issue. However, from an ergonomic standpoint, I prefer control -- I don't like having to bend my thumb into awkward positions to hit the command key.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by ctn You are kidding right?

Quote:

Originally posted by gloco It appears that some Apple freaks actually believe this! Let them think what they like, i know my machine can run circles around their Macs, i mean what software do they have anyway? I think they just got Quake and Doom last year, lol [/B]

God forbid I write an objective response in this thread, but here goes

I've worked in IT supporting both platforms, and the fact is that both platforms have their share of ignorant (in the dictionary sense of the word: uninformed) users.


ctn: just because you don't like (and probably don't know much about) Macs, doesn't mean people who do like them are someone stupid or ignorant or "newbies." Like it or not, Macs have powerful hardware, a powerful and elegant operating system, and can do anything a Wintel PC can do. They are just as valid a computing choice as any Windows system (and vice versa).

Gloco: I'm curious to know what you're doing on your Windows PC that will "run circles" around an equivalent Mac... As for games, Mac users had Doom the year it was released, thank you. Quake 3 was designed on, and released first for, Macs. There is a much bigger gaming market for Wintel PCs, true. But most of the major games are released for the Mac, and nowadays it's usually not that long after the Windows version. The one good thing that can be said about the Mac is that if a game is released for the Mac, it's a good game

When you have 90% of the market, you can release a 3D, DirectX, EAX-enhanced version of TicTacToe and you'll sell enough copies to make a hefty profit

But because the Mac market is smaller, only the good games get released. That said, if you're a hard-core gamer, you're better off custom-building a gaming rig with Windows 95 or 98!

Quote:

This is what it comes down to, for me: I walk into a store, i see ROWS AND ROWS of software for PC.

The vast majority of Windows software is sold in retail establishments. The vast majority of Mac software (something like 90%) is sold via the web or download. Maybe Windows users are just behind the times in the digital age?

j/k But seriously, how much software you see at your local Best Buy is in no way indicative of how much software is available.

The other thing to be said is that if I go to Best Buy, and look in a partular section of the software aisles, I generally see 20 applications that do the exact same thing. Most of those are complete crap that some company threw together hoping some poor schmuck will be suckered into buying it because of flashy packaging. Educated Windows users won't go near it. That's supposed to be a GOOD thing?

On the Mac side, bad software doesn't float. If you buy something, chances are it's going to be pretty good. There may be only 10 home accounting software packages on the Mac side, vs. 50 on the Windows side, but if only 8 or 10 of them on either platform are decent, where's the advantage?

I say this not as some "Mac fanatic" but as someone who used to analyze software for a living as a Programmer/Analyst in a multi-platform university department with almost 1000 computing devices. I had to evaluate software as part of my job.

As I mentioned above, because of market shares in the business world, there is lots of custom-built and specialty market software (point-of-sale, custom accounting, etc.) that is only available for Windows (and only certain versions of Windows, at that). But unless you are in one of those specialty markets or are a hard-core gamer, software availability is really not a valid argument for platform choice.


Quote:

Only people who are diehard about Apple buy Mac's. The general consumer buys: PC which equals to what? 99.9% of the general population. Most Mac's are bought by companies and some users who use a Mac at work.

Apple's "current sales" market share is around 4.5%, not .1% Their "installed base" market share is actually quite a bit higher. As for who buys Macs, you're way off -- most Macs are bought by "general consumers." And, in fact, one big reason more "general consumers" don't buy Macs is because Windows users who know nothing about Macs or the Mac market tell their friends the same outdated and incorrect things that are being thrown around above.

Why so many computer users insist on telling their friends/relatives/etc. to buy a certain brand/OS of computer because it's what they use, instead of what their friends/relatives/etc. do/need is beyond me. I personally choose to use a G4 with Mac OS X as my primary machine. However, I also have a PC and another Mac running OS 9 here in my home office. When someone asks me what kind of computer they should get, I don't just say "get a Mac." I ask them what they need the computer for, what they'll be doing, how much they want to spend, what they might want to do in the future, what the people they know use (since they'll eventually have a problem and will need to turn to someone for help), etc., etc., etc. I try to give them an unbiased, logical answer. I can do this because I have extensive experience with both platforms (and others). Unfortunately, most people don't/can't/won't give this kind of advice. They simply say "Macs suck" or "Windows sucks."

 

[gloco]

MacDef,

Who cares? Guys, i'll repeat myself for the third time, I don't have anything against MAC's or Apple. Na Da....Nothing...UNDERSTAND?


----------------->

<--------------------

Look! Sarcasm!

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by gloco Who cares? Guys, i'll repeat myself for the third time, I don't have anything against MAC's or Apple. Na Da....Nothing...UNDERSTAND?

ROFL! Come on, Gloco, give us a break

You make uninformed and inflammatory comments about a topic, and then when people reply (and reply reasonably rather than with flames), you get all annoyed!

If you really "don't care" and if you really don't want people to reply to such posts, don't make them. If you make them, expect people to respond. Simple as that.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF ROFL! Come on, Gloco, give us a break You make uninformed and inflammatory comments about a topic, and then when people reply (and reply reasonably rather than with flames), you get all annoyed! If you really "don't care" and if you really don't want people to reply to such posts, don't make them. If you make them, expect people to respond. Simple as that.

ROTFLMAO, uh...i was horsing around the WHOLE time, in case you didn't notice (that's why i made a point of showing i was being SARCASTIC), i love how some folks get themselves all riled up, its pretty amusing. You silly Mac lovers LOL

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by gloco ROTFLMAO, uh...i was horsing around the WHOLE time, in case you didn't notice (that's why i made a point of showing i was being SARCASTIC), i love how some folks get themselves all riled up, its pretty amusing. You silly Mac lovers LOL

You're too much, Gloco

Note my smileys and laughs. My response to you above was quite rational and objective -- far from "riled up." But if it makes you feel better thinking that you "got a Mac user riled up" (even though I'm a multi-OS person), hey, go crazy.