What Is Your Preferred Reference Setup?
Oct 1, 2022 at 9:44 AM Post #16 of 41
So your question was nonsense then.

Thank god!

I wasn’t giving myself advice. I was explaining some of the issues of a “reference setup” and I assume the OP found at least some of it useful because he/she “Liked” it.

And again, my post did not assume the OP was a pro!

G
It is truly unbelievable how you keep getting everything mixed up. Like, the sentence is right there, plain and simple, black on white, but your cognition changes it around so you can have a 'clever' retort. Unbelievable. Good luck, brother. No time for this.
 
Oct 1, 2022 at 12:11 PM Post #17 of 41
OP here- I am a hobbyist but also have (as a hobbyist) mixed songs in Cubase, Protools, etc.

So I'm definitely interested in hearing about both hobbyist head-fi HP comaparison gear, and pro audio options.

For headphone hobbyist or professional reviewing use, would be great to learn what people use as a baseline. My thinking was that it should be something that many people are familiar with in general and something with flat or flat-esque response. Maybe something that is naturally (without EQ) close to a Harman Curve of some sort as that also is a heavily used as a target/baseline.

For pro audio (or at least my own recording setup), I've used my Sony MDR-7506's through an MOTU M4. It's not high-dollar or calibrated, but I like that with that setup I hear what's going on in the mids which is where I tend to find most adjustments needed on the EQ side. For volume/leveling of individual tracks it's decent but I usually switch to my monitors for that (using Equator D5's which are admittedly on their last legs).
 
Oct 1, 2022 at 3:13 PM Post #18 of 41
As a headphone hobbiest, you can use whatever makes you happy. It's your ears and your tastes. You can listen to your music however you want.

As a reviewer, it gets a little more complicated. A lot of reviewers serve a subjective audience. They may cite measurements and specs, but they are all off of published manufacturer's data sheets, not from personal testing. Their reviews consist of flowery descriptions like "lots of air" or "crystal clear highs" rather than specific references to distortion levels or response curves. You can also spot this kind of reviewer because they talk about specific music they're listening to on the equipment and inferring that the equipment might be good or bad for different kinds of music (total hogwash).

More serious reviewers do measurements and controlled listening test and base their reviews on that, rather than subjective impressions. The problem is that each one of these kinds of reviewers might have their own target calibration and apply correction curves, which can make it hard to compare the results of one reviewer's tests to those of another reviewer. In these cases, you have to compare apples to apples by comparing different models using the same reviewer's measurements. For headphones, the best and most universal target curve is Harman, but there are two of those with different bass responses. So you kind of have to read how the reviewer evaluates equipment and try to make judgements yourself how they would compare apples to apples.

For yourself, mixing music to be listened to by consumers, you need a monitoring setup as close to that of a professional studio as possible. That means a speaker system in a treated room with a flat response, not headphones. Generally, studios have two sets of monitoring speakers- big room sized installations that they do their primary work on, and smaller bookshelf systems they check at the end of a mix to see how it sounds on a limited system the consumer might be using.

Hope this helps.
 
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Oct 2, 2022 at 7:09 AM Post #19 of 41
So I'm definitely interested in hearing about both hobbyist head-fi HP comaparison gear, and pro audio options.
As bigshot said, from the hobbyist side, it’s whatever makes you happy. It’s a fair bit less simple when it comes to “pro audio options” and unfortunately, the two sides of this coin (hobbyist and pro use) are not completely independent.

While personal perception is always a large part of the story, it plays an even larger part with HPs because relatively small differences, say the HP’s fit, HRTF considerations, etc., can have a disproportionately large impact on perception. Going back to the previous paragraph, we tend to acclimatise and develop a personal “baseline” to what we’re most used to. For example, HPs with a bit higher bass response will very possibly “make you happy” as a hobbyist listener but then switching to studio type HPs (like your Sony’s for example) will sound particularly bass light in comparison and if you use your hobbyist HPs frequently enough for them to be your “baseline”, it’s very likely you will add a little too much bass when mixing using your Sony’s, even if you’re aware of the issue.

As a general rule, it’s not recommended to mix using HPs, there are just so many personal/individual perceptual issues involved, it’s very likely you’ll end up with a mix that is fairly seriously flawed on a wider range of playback scenarios. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible to create a good mix using cans but few manage to.

With that said, there’s nothing at all wrong with your Sony’s. They’re pretty common in pro audio use because they cover quite a wide range of use scenarios, for example they’re very decent for live sound, tracking monitoring, broadcast use and other purposes. Not sure they’re particularly good as reference cans or for mixing though. Personally, I use Senn HD 600’s as reference cans because they’re quite common (or at least quite representative) with consumers of higher quality HPs, while being relatively neutral and revealing. Quite a few other studio pros use them for the same reasons. I also use a set of Apple IEMs for reference checking but should mention that I work primarily with surround these days so don’t use cans professionally as much as I once did.

Although it’s not easy to arrange, it’s certainly beneficial to spend some time with some high-end electrostatics if you can. I spent several days working with Stax Lambdas many years ago and believe that still has some influence on my decision making when referencing on cans today. It might also be a good idea to use an EQ correction curve to bring whatever cans you use in line with the Harmon curve and then check your mixes both with this correction engaged and disengaged. Something else that might be a good idea to try is some of the HP correction plugins. These vary considerably from relatively simple crossfeed plugins to EQ correction with specific speaker/room emulation. Personally, they don’t do it for me but the Sonarworks (and some other) plugins are gaining traction with some pros.

With all the above, there’s arguably no such thing as a “baseline” or “reference” system when it comes to cans. Just cans which you personally like more or enable you personally to work better. That’s why some objective measurements are essential IMO.

CAVEAT: Much of the above is personal opinion informed by my personal HRTF (and other perceptual effects) and therefore for you, could be anything from “spot on” to the exact opposite!

Regarding your MOTU ADC/DAC: This is a non-issue. Audibly it won’t make any difference at all using this fairly budget option vs a TOTL pro ADC/DAC. Some of the analogue functionality might make an audible difference though, under certain circumstances. The mic-preamps for example will likely not be particularly good at high gain settings and of course the HP output will likely not be appropriate (power or impedance) for some HPs.

G
 
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Oct 25, 2022 at 2:50 AM Post #21 of 41
Anechoic chamber = very dry and off sounding lol.... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Most seriously, avoid a RT 60 below 0.25 ms (entire bandwidth, averaged).
And promote polarized acoustics (either absorbing to diffusing, or the exact reverse = both methods coexist ; in my house it is absorbing to diffusing). :beerchug:
 
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Oct 25, 2022 at 7:26 AM Post #22 of 41
Hi,

  • Headphone
    • Closed Back = Final Sonorous VI
    • Open Back = Final D8000 Pro
    • IEM (if applicable) = FiiO FH9 and Aure Audio Ringo
  • Amp = MacIntosh Mc501 (x2)
  • DAC = Audioaero Capitol Reference SE
  • Source
    • Gear (i.e. Bluesound Node, Mac, PC, iPhone) = Audioaero Capitol Reference SE, DAP Aune m1s, iBasso Dx90 (heavy modified)
    • Media (i.e. CD, Qobuz, FLAC, Vinyl, etc.) = CD, Wav, vinyls.
:beerchug:
Sounds like an excellent setup.
 
Oct 25, 2022 at 7:50 AM Post #23 of 41
Anechoic chamber = very dry and off sounding lol.... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
That’s the point. Obviously if you want to measure/reference a component or system, then you want to measure that component/system, not the room it’s in.
Most seriously, avoid a RT 60 below 0.25 ms (entire bandwidth, averaged).
Even more seriously, avoid a RT60 below 0.4 ms for stereo reproduction. 0.25 ms is OK for multichannel setups.
And promote polarized acoustics (either absorbing to diffusing, or the exact reverse = both methods coexist ; in my house it is absorbing to diffusing).
What is “polarised acoustics” and why would anyone promote it? The acoustic treatment that should be promoted is the acoustic treatment which “treats” the specific problems of a particular room. For consumer listening environments that will almost always ideally entail some combination of absorption and diffusion.

G
 
Oct 25, 2022 at 8:09 AM Post #24 of 41
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Oct 25, 2022 at 8:14 AM Post #25 of 41
polarized acoustics = professionnal studios.
No it doesn’t. I’ve worked in commercial studios all over the world for about 30 years and have never heard that term. What is “polarised” about the acoustics in professional/commercial studios?

G
 
Oct 25, 2022 at 8:19 AM Post #26 of 41
No it doesn’t. I’ve worked in commercial studios all over the world for about 30 years and have never heard that term. What is “polarised” about the acoustics in professional/commercial studios?

G
Small studio so...
See above :beerchug:

LEDE concept is an absolut classic.

This is the case at home, in my dedicated room. :upside_down:
 
Oct 25, 2022 at 10:42 AM Post #27 of 41
My configuration at home :

live-end-dead-end-ask.audio_-1024x628.png
 
Oct 27, 2022 at 12:52 PM Post #28 of 41
Oct 27, 2022 at 3:19 PM Post #29 of 41
I think the polarization is, "whatever you say, I'll say the opposite". With all the hot air being emitted, we are creating a virtual sauna. I'm tired of it. I'd like some fresh air.
 
Oct 28, 2022 at 11:06 AM Post #30 of 41
I think the polarization is, "whatever you say, I'll say the opposite".
The take-away is that there’s no such thing as “polarised acoustics” as far as room acoustic design principles are concerned.

Additionally, LEDE is a very old, superseded design principle that is not suited to small/home rooms and is particularly unsuitable for surround sound systems, there are better and/or more practical solutions.

A decent primer on the subject can be found here.

G
 

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