[esldude]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/wilson-sophia-ces-demo-apple-ipod-source-18443/
 
The iPod some years ago was good enough Wilson demo'd them with a hidden iPod to some acclaim.  I have heard a few Wilson speakers.  They might be somewhat overpriced, but all have been awfully darn good.  My guess is current iPhones sound better than the iPod used by Wilson. 

 

[elfary]

  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/wilson-sophia-ces-demo-apple-ipod-source-18443/
 
The iPod some years ago was good enough Wilson demo'd them with a hidden iPod to some acclaim.  I have heard a few Wilson speakers.  They might be somewhat overpriced, but all have been awfully darn good.  My guess is current iPhones sound better than the iPod used by Wilson. 

 
iPod Touch 5 or iPhone 5s are freakin good sounding. Main room for improvement would be output power but with 1 volt it's enough for almost any iem.
 
Quality wise the electrical signal coming off the headphone jack is as good as it gets: very clean, clear and open.

 

[RRod]

I've been using a 6th gen. Ipod classic + ER-4P as my mobile setup for a while now. Sounds great and does everything I need, including movies.

 

[krismusic]

iPod Touch 5 or iPhone 5s are freakin good sounding. Main room for improvement would be output power but with 1 volt it's enough for almost any iem.

Quality wise the electrical signal coming off the headphone jack is as good as it gets: very clean, clear and open.

For once this forum has saved me money! By convincing me that the 5S is a very good source straight out of the headphone jack. Portability is brilliant, not having to carry external kit and wiring. Win!

 

[elfary]

This week i was doing direct comparisons between my iPhone 5s and iPod Classic+iBasso t3 and 5s drove my westone um3x as good as the amped iPod. Not bad for a phone!


Running seems like a great idea until you actually start running

 

[SilentFrequency]

iPhone 6 Plus with my momentums are fantastic sound quality, highly recommended and great for a portable music source

 

[bigshot]

I've had Apple products going back to the 8500 AV over fifteen years ago, and every one of them is perfectly transparent.

 

[Jon Sonne]

These facts by bigshot is actually something most head-fi'ers should be aware of, but unfortunately, too many on this forum waste their time and money on exotic mp3 players, expensive DACs ect (EDIT: this includes myself

).

The iPods have DACs that compare to good standalone home CD players. Every one of them has stone flat frequency response, no distortion to speak of, and a noise floor WAY below audibility. If you're hearing differences, you're eiher comparing the iPod to something that has inferior sound, or you're hearing placebo.

 
I have tested this myself. I own several iPods, from different generation. If you ABX them against one another or against a CD player, you will most likely not be able to tell them apart!  
 
Another good fact:
 
Quote:

You aren't hearing soundstage. You're hearing better frequency response or lower distortion and you are subjectively describing that to yourself as "space". The cues that create the illusion of depth are slight reverberation or echoes caught by the mikes during recording, or phase filtering done during mixing. Those aural cues are in the recording, not the headphones. Better headphones just reproduce the sound more faithfully, and those subtle aural cues can be heard better. That isn't soundstage, it's clarity.

The difference between good headphones and apple earbuds is clarity (low distortion, flat response) not soundstage.

 
What people usually term "soundstage" for headphones is often just clarity. Though, some headphones have angled transducers (sennheiser HD800 come to mind), which might affect the way the sound is perceived.    
 
The headphone "soundstage" can be dramatically improved if equalization is used to obtain an audible flat response. If you try this yourself, you will realize that "soundstage" in headphones is actually just clarity; eg. low distortion and audible flat response. 

 

[elfary]

These facts by bigshot is actually something most head-fi'ers should be aware of, but unfortunately, too many on this forum waste their time and money on exotic mp3 players, expensive DACs ect (EDIT: this includes myself

).

The iPods have DACs that compare to good standalone home CD players. Every one of them has stone flat frequency response, no distortion to speak of, and a noise floor WAY below audibility. If you're hearing differences, you're eiher comparing the iPod to something that has inferior sound, or you're hearing placebo.

 
I have tested this myself. I own several iPods, from different generation. If you ABX them against one another or against a CD player, you will most likely not be able to tell them apart!  
 
Another good fact:
 
Quote:

You aren't hearing soundstage. You're hearing better frequency response or lower distortion and you are subjectively describing that to yourself as "space". The cues that create the illusion of depth are slight reverberation or echoes caught by the mikes during recording, or phase filtering done during mixing. Those aural cues are in the recording, not the headphones. Better headphones just reproduce the sound more faithfully, and those subtle aural cues can be heard better. That isn't soundstage, it's clarity.

The difference between good headphones and apple earbuds is clarity (low distortion, flat response) not soundstage.

 
What people usually term "soundstage" for headphones is often just clarity. Though, some headphones have angled transducers (sennheiser HD800 come to mind), which might affect the way the sound is perceived.    
 
The headphone "soundstage" can be dramatically improved if equalization is used to obtain an audible flat response. If you try this yourself, you will realize that "soundstage" in headphones is actually just clarity; eg. low distortion and audible flat response. 

+1


Running seems like a great idea until you actually start running

 

[sonitus mirus]

   
What people usually term "soundstage" for headphones is often just clarity. Though, some headphones have angled transducers (sennheiser HD800 come to mind), which might affect the way the sound is perceived.    
 
The headphone "soundstage" can be dramatically improved if equalization is used to obtain an audible flat response. If you try this yourself, you will realize that "soundstage" in headphones is actually just clarity; eg. low distortion and audible flat response. 

 
While I agree, it seems that "soundstage" is a quality of extreme significance when reviewing headphones.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/686489/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-review-and-comparison-with-hd600-and-k701/15#post_9901235
 
Maybe I don't understand what "soundstage" means to the people reviewing headphones?
 
These are examples of space and positioning that I consider to be related to "soundstage":
 
http://scienceuncovered.tumblr.com/post/58690998370/5-awesome-examples-of-3d-sound-for-stereo

 

[Jon Sonne]

   
While I agree, it seems that "soundstage" is a quality of extreme significance when reviewing headphones.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/686489/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-review-and-comparison-with-hd600-and-k701/15#post_9901235
 
Maybe I don't understand what "soundstage" means to the people reviewing headphones?
 

 
 
I think what people want to describe when they say "soundstage" is often just how clearly you can hear reverberation and instrument separation. 
 
In the link you provided we stumble upon a classical example of open design headphones having "better" or "bigger" "soundstage" than closed design headphones by default. It has always been easier to design a great sounding open design headphone than a closed one. So, what people often hear when they compare open versus closed design is that the open headphones perform better -> bigger "soundstage", which is actually just better clarity. What people really obsess about when they speak of "good soundstage" in a closed can is just a very well sounding can, considering it is a closed design. Albeit, most people don't realize this, and thus still call it "soundstage" and not "clarity" or another term that is more fitting. 

 

[derbigpr]

Don't know about others, but I always said that iPhones were worth the money for their sound quality and headphone driving ability alone. I think they sound excellent, damn good in fact, especially when paired with high quality low impedance cans, like higher end Denons for example.
 
In fact, when my old 4S is connected into one input on the Musical Fidelity M1HPAP headphone amp, and a Musical Fidelity M1DAC is connected into other input, volume matched and playing the exact same song, I can barely tell the difference between them using Beyerdynamic T1's as I switch between the inputs on the amp, that's how close they are. We're talking about an almost 1000 dollar DAC an a phone.

 

[RRod]

   
 
I think what people want to describe when they say "soundstage" is often just how clearly you can hear reverberation and instrument separation. 
 
In the link you provided we stumble upon a classical example of open design headphones having "better" or "bigger" "soundstage" than closed design headphones by default. It has always been easier to design a great sounding open design headphone than a closed one. So, what people often hear when they compare open versus closed design is that the open headphones perform better -> bigger "soundstage", which is actually just better clarity. What people really obsess about when they speak of "good soundstage" in a closed can is just a very well sounding can, considering it is a closed design. Albeit, most people don't realize this, and thus still call it "soundstage" and not "clarity" or another term that is more fitting. 

 
People focus on the "sound" part and ignore the "stage" part. If I sat someone down on a couch and had them listen to two speakers, then replaced those speakers with two other speakers in the exact same position, I don't think they would say the staging changed, but the sound most definitely could. For some reason when you move the speakers onto the ears, the concepts get mushed together. Certainly things like angled drivers can modify the perceived positioning of the L/R signals, but the variation among headphones just isn't that huge compared to other factors. Whatever staging differences might exist between my HD598s, 700s, and 800s, it's insignificant compared to what even a simple crossfeed plugin does.

 

[SilverEars]

   
People focus on the "sound" part and ignore the "stage" part. If I sat someone down on a couch and had them listen to two speakers, then replaced those speakers with two other speakers in the exact same position, I don't think they would say the staging changed, but the sound most definitely could. For some reason when you move the speakers onto the ears, the concepts get mushed together. Certainly things like angled drivers can modify the perceived positioning of the L/R signals, but the variation among headphones just isn't that huge compared to other factors. Whatever staging differences might exist between my HD598s, 700s, and 800s, it's insignificant compared to what even a simple crossfeed plugin does.

Any recommendations of good cross-feeds to try on Foobar that creates a good environment affect for headphones?

 

[sonitus mirus]

  Any recommendations of good cross-feeds to try on Foobar that creates a good environment affect for headphones?

 
There aren't too many available when searching around for them.  From what I have read, many of the older versions that were created are no longer in development and these can crash with the latest version of Foobar.
 
Some that may be worth trying:
 
http://www.naivesoftware.com/software.html
 
http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=90761
 
This one looks interesting and is fairly new (Meier Crossfeed): http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_meiercf
 
Jan Meier has posted about this crossfeed over here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/671596/samples-of-various-crossfeed-versions#post_9598735
 
 
I have a little HeadRoom Micro Amp in my office at work that has a crossfeed toggle enabled for as long as I've owned the amp.  It offers a subtle change in sound, but it seems to be about perfect to me.  I almost exclusively listen to music via Google Play (Chrome browser version) now, and crossfeed is not an available option at this time via software.