Trapper32
500+ Head-Fier
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^^ I agree completely fuzzydice...
Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif IJWTS that I'm not elderly |
Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find Fuzydice's post quite interesting, but it doesn't take into account one important point: what would make an "elderly member" purchasing a USD 300, 500 or even 1000 amp, provided he already owns or knows well many of the top end offers? I don't think many of the seasoned members with the experience and knowledge to be more objective than a newbie, are going to spend any money to buy those new "giant killers" coming from the East. Probably not even many of the affordable new products from western manufacturers. |
Originally Posted by fuzydice /img/forum/go_quote.gif The elderly members of this forum have good intentions in fighting this fight against a possible shill, no doubt about it. No one likes to see a community they're intimately involved with deteriorate. However, the cause they're fighting for here--to help people make informed decisions apart from sensationalized & falsely based opinions--isn't being helped by threads like this, at least not in the case of LD/Penchum. Penchum's reviews and posts come across as professional, non-condescending and extremely helpful to new members of the forum and hobby alike, while the posts by the elder members in this thread come across as elitist and antagonistic. The elderly members are not generally the ones buying LD products; it's the newer members, and right now the chasm between the new users and the elderly is actively being widened by the behavior in this thread; If you want to keep this forum united under the banners you guys are rallying behind, then this may not be the most helpful means of achieving it. So how do you achieve unification & the propagation of useful opinions that will aid in the purchase of new amps without calling people out for being shills? Well, what I want to see more of is active involvement from these same elderly members in the assessment of these "cheap chinese products" other than blanket statements alluding to "it's chinese, it's crap." Comments to that effect are not helpful to new buyers; we need someone experienced to sit down with the product and point out its flaws, indicate exactly why a $250 LD MKIII is not on the same level as a DV, RSA, Woo, etc, product, and such and so forth. There is a small amount of this going on, but it can't compete with the amount of baseless praise. And baseless praise only begets more baseless praise, thus threads like this asking where it all began. The experience and knowledge of the older members here is absolutely paramount to this forums survival as a place where meaningful discussions take place regularly. But it needs to be used in a way that's meaningful to the users who only want to spend $300 on an amp. You can't place the blame entirely on new users who see four threads singing the praises of LD products and few (if any) threads where the same product is really put to the test by the more experienced users who've heard a good cross section of amplifiers who say otherwise. As an aside, another less negative aspect of phenomenons such as the LD crisis is that their products are bringing a lot of new people to tube amplification, new users who'll certainly at least consider more expensive amplifiers from the more expensive and respected amp companies (similar to weed as a gateway to cocaine, etc, or the SR60 as a gateway to the HD650, W5000, L3000, R10 in regards to trying others' more expensive products out). Eventually, a lot of these new LD owners will be feeding discussions on much more expensive amps they've come to collect. In summation: Get out there and compare that LD product to your expensive amps, be critical of it, but be honest and sincere at the same time. Your reviews, comparisons, thoughts on the amps in question will either cause the Penchum praise-parties to fall away or confirm their usefulness; your thoughts carry more weight than someone who just joined the site or only reviews LD (and a Zero) products and gives them nothing but praise. The result should be that your stated goals in furthering this community are achieved, and new users are better informed and more likely to get as deeply and passionately involved as you have, perpetuating more spirited and well-founded opinions being spread. |
Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the issue is 3000 unnecessary posts. Said posts have been brought to everyone's attention and therefore I think the more experienced members have done what they can. |
Originally Posted by fuzydice /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's no question that Penchum talks a lot about LD products. He is, without a doubt, playing a key role in this phenomenon. But the reason why that role is so critical in generating such a tidal wave of interest in LD products is the more fundamentally important question to investigate. I think the more experienced users could have headed off such a phenomenon by never letting a single persons winds create such a large wave in the first place. I could be way off base; it's just a discussion. And I'd rather read about people thinking about solutions to the undeniable problem than insulting each other. (and my deepest apologies for using the term 'elderly.') |
Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif You want more established members to go out and buy a Little Dot amps so we can help this community? As Mike said, that's what meets are for. I would love to hear one of the newer improved models. I would love them to be wonderful. If any show up at the next Tampa meet, I'll make sure to take some time with them. |
Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif As another "elderly" member, I think fuzzydice missed the point. Those of us who are concerned with Penchum's posting history have never once said anything against any member getting, enjoying, and talking about Little Dot amps. Not one of us criticized his reviews. Not one of us has interrupted a Little Dot thread, in which the amps are being discussed, nor would we discourage discussion. The op asked a question, and we answered. I think our concerns are valid. [remainder omitted] |
Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Little Dot isn't being singled out by a long shot, but those of us who care about the community will call out anyone, even if we like them and/or their products, if we feel the practices or posting history are detrimental to the community. How is that a newbie vs. oldie issue? |