[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif You will never get said measurements anyway, so either way it makes no difference.

High end cable makers don't publish specs? I wonder why that is.

Quote:

So Beefy, by all means tell us what the acceptable specs are.

The BJC spec sheets are a good place to start. A guaranteed level of performance, not voodoo and psychoacoustics.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif High end cable makers don't publish specs? I wonder why that is. <~~you wouldn't know what the specs mean anyway Beefy, especially how they affect the way you hear music from your rig. The BJC spec sheets are a good place to start. A guaranteed level of performance, not voodoo and psychoacoustics.

How does this cable sound as compared to the one below.

Quote:

LC-1 Audio Cable Specs: Physical Characteristics: Center Conductor - Solid Bare Copper, 25 AWG Dielectric - Nitrogen-Injected Low-Density Polyethylene Shield - Braid/Braid, 98% coverage, bare copper Outer diameter - .305 inch Certifications: UL Listing: Yes NEC Rating: CM (Communications rated; suitable for residential and commercial in-wall installation) Electrical Characteristics: Capacitance, conductor to shield: 12.2 pF/ft Resistance, center conductor: 34 ohms/1000 feet Resistance, shield: 1.7 ohms/1000 feet

Quote:

INSULATION:Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene (FEP) CONDUCTORS:8 x silver-plated 99.99999% oxygen free solid copper SHIELD:95% Overall Coverage Braided Silver/OFC CAPACITANCE:36pF/ft DC RESISTANCE:6.4 Ohms per 1000ft/304m as terminated

And while your at it Beefy, maybe you can stop patting yourself on the back long enough to tell what the measurements are that we should be looking for??? Are is it that you don't know what said measurements are and your augment is meaningless?

Go ahead Beefy, tell us what specs give us the Guarantee of Performance
you speak of.

You earned a Beanie this time. This is the third time I have asked you for the measurements you speak of and so far I get none. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just need to listen for yourself since not everyone gets the same results with cables? Or are you too obtuse to understand that?

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif You earned a Beanie this time. This is the third time I have asked you for the measurements you speak of and so far I get none. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just need to listen for yourself since not everyone gets the same results with cables? Or are you too obtuse to understand that?

I just can't be bothered. You win.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just can't be bothered. You win.

Not much left argue is there Beefy. Stay in touch, let us know how those measurements work out for you.

 

[Beefy]

Look, I could spend an hour typing up everything you want to know, citing references, doing calculations...... but it wouldn't make a single spec if difference to you, would it?

So I am going to not waste my time, and just let it go - I don't care enough. You can have your win, and everyone can decide for themselves.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Look, I could spend an hour typing up everything you want to know, citing references, doing calculations...... but it wouldn't make a single spec if difference to you, would it? So I am going to not waste my time, and just let it go - I don't care enough. You can have your win, and everyone can decide for themselves.

It will make a difference to me if it makes sense Beefy. Shooting you down is not my goal here. My goal was to highlight the irony of people bitching about cables and then coming here saying they don't use cheap cables. Your buddy poork f0rk or whatever his name is turned that idea into a contest about cable costs and diluting the conversation until it became ridiculous. I still am not sure what spork it trying to get at. Then I feel like you chimed in because schp0rk and myself were going at it. Sometimes people cant read between the lines so here it is as plain as I can make it:

My goal was to highlight the irony of people bitching about cables and then coming here saying they don't use cheap cables

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif My goal was to highlight the irony of people bitching about cables and then coming here saying they don't use cheap cables

If that's true then your argument up until now does not make logical sense.

If most people posting here are actually partial-believers rather than non-believers (a comment you yourself made) then where is the irony? (or hypocrisy as you stated earlier). There is none. A total non-believer on the other hand would have no reason to ever spend money on a cable if they had something lying around already.

I'd argue that anyone who actually thought it was worth spending money on a cable for any reason would meet your definition of a partial-believer, and hence there is no situation where you goal statement could ever be true. Now that's irony.

 

[The Monkey]

^win.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif If that's true then your argument up until now does not make logical sense. If most people posting here are actually partial-believers rather than non-believers (a comment you yourself made) then where is the irony? (or hypocrisy as you stated earlier). There is none. A total non-believer on the other hand would have no reason to ever spend money on a cable if they had something lying around already. I'd argue that anyone who actually thought it was worth spending money on a cable for any reason would meet your definition of a partial-believer, and hence there is no situation where you goal statement could ever be true. Now that's irony.

A) It was Beefy's assertion that there were more than two categories.

B) What have you bought for your headphone rig that came with IC's, It was me who said if you buy anything but the cheapest cable you can find then that would make you a hypocrite.

Gets your facts straight, your not fooling anyone with your twisted logic.

Come back when you come up with something that doesn't completely circumnavigate logic. EG: Just because I mentioned more than one category, which I disagree with if you read the thread, then that doesn't mean it was me who introduced the idea.

 

[The Monkey]

^fail.

 

[riceboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif If that's true then your argument up until now does not make logical sense. If most people posting here are actually partial-believers rather than non-believers (a comment you yourself made) then where is the irony? (or hypocrisy as you stated earlier). There is none. A total non-believer on the other hand would have no reason to ever spend money on a cable if they had something lying around already. I'd argue that anyone who actually thought it was worth spending money on a cable for any reason would meet your definition of a partial-believer, and hence there is no situation where you goal statement could ever be true. Now that's irony.

I agree with The Monkey that this is a win

I like the ignore feature. It cut out close to 5,000 unproductive posts

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif A) It was Beefy's assertion that there were more than two categories. B) What have you bought for your headphone rig that came with IC's, It was me who said if you buy anything but the cheapest cable you can find then that would make you a hypocrite. Gets your facts straight, your not fooling anyone with your twisted logic. Come back when you come up with something that doesn't completely circumnavigate logic. EG: Just because I mentioned more than one category, which I disagree with if you read the thread, then that doesn't mean it was me who introduced the idea.

I just read back through Beefy's posts and yours. You definitely brought up the the idea of there being more than two categories first, but I don't know, maybe you got that vibe out of Beefy's posts somehow? Okay, so if we just go with your stated stance giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume non-believers and partial-believers to be the same thing then your argument still isn't logical. I mean for anyone who sees any value in having an IC properly assembled or cable rated for the actual current in use then where is this hypocrisy? If someone believes in using a cable made to some basic level of quality then do they have to believe in every other wonder some claim cables are capable of? Of course not. Does denying any of the magical claims made of cables mean you see no benefit to any kind of well made cable. It'd be a ridiculous suggestion.

Call my logic twisted or circumvented all you like, but I'm not the one trying to push a logical fallacy here. You are denying the antecedent to be precise (you may want to look it up).

Nice pic too. It made me believe your argument just that little bit more.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am sure you are comfortable proclaiming where the point of diminishing returns is for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I said no such thing. That is what YOU are trying to do, by claiming that non-believers should all be using freebie cables. <~~If I am wrong about this then there must be 3 catagories, right?

Quote:

Cables should be well shielded. They should hit a minimum level of conductivity. They should come in under a maximum level of capacitance. They should have an appropriate level of build quality. Anything less isn't cutting the mustard. Anything more is a waste of money. I use BJC LC-1 and it fits these criteria very nicely.<~~~Here Beefy is telling you that cables must meet certain criteria, if this is true than how can there be two catagories?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5772513-post73.html

Quote:

Say it with me slowly a few times...... Law of diminishing returns. Law of diminishing returns. Law of diminishing returns. There is NO problem with being a cable 'non-believer' and still demanding a rational, scientific, minimum level of quality for physically measurable parameters.<~~~Here he says it again, you see this right?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5772579-post75.html

Quote:

I said no such thing. That is what YOU are trying to do, by claiming that non-believers should all be using freebie cables.<~~~Here Beefy is bitching because I am using non-beleiver logic against him and he says that I am in the wrong. Do they all sound alike or do we need a catagory in the middle above a "freebie" at about 30 dollars which is where he draws the line when saying "Anything more is a waste of money."

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5772594-post77.html

You mid telling me how cables can all sound the same but must meet certain criteria at the same time?

So far we have:

1) Doesnt cut the mustard (Freebie)
2) Sweetspot, cuts the mustard according to Beefy, Anything more is a waste (BJC)
3) This is where cables like I have belong (Over 30 dollars) Like $325 Dollars for a set of IC's

You got it fingered out now?

 

[Huckster]

Jesus how old are some of you folks. These cable arguments are like playing Handball w/ the drapes.
Diminishing returns is economics, it varies because people's values vary, yes.
olblueyez- i dont understand why you have to so passionately defend and antagonize people w/ your cable beliefs. Are we talking about some Wire or the creation of Earth.

To Op- sorry your thread was destroyed :/

 

[dex85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif To Op- sorry your thread was destroyed :/

no problem, i got the answers i was looking for

regarding the last pages, what can you do. people arguing the same thing over and over without moving anywhere.