[jcx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatsudaMan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, exactly. However, they will tell you that they buy the 30 dollar one for "build quality"...lol. Some will even say that there is a difference between the stock and Blue Jeans cable but no difference between Blue Jeans and an expensive one....very convenient argument for those who can't afford or can't hear the difference between interconnects.

classic cheap rhetorical trick for making points in arguments with people who aren't aware of the whole "black bag rhetoric" game – keep it up and earn the “Troll” label


"No difference between cables" doesn't include poorly constructed cable not meeting some minimum objectively measurable technical performance level and the exclusion of objectively demonstrably inferior cables doesn't weaken the true “cable skeptic” position

What I am highly skeptical of is non-blind subjective evaluations saying there are "night and day" audible differences between cables of sufficient build quality to achieve equivalent technically measurable characteristics, which in addition to lumped RLC should include several "transfer impedance" measures of shielding effectiveness

It is also possible for some tweak cables to have basic technical parameters that could cause audible differences in some audio applications – I would call them “passive equalizers” and again I would exclude them from the basic cable skeptic position that properly applied technically competent cables do not appear to cause audible differences

 

[gregorio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif A) I have never seen one that is broken. B) If the wire gauge needs to be equal to or greater than a particular size then cables do make a difference. C) The cables pictured above cost about $1.50 so who cares if they break. You would have to break about 20 of them to equal the price of a BJC. D) You know damn well you bought them for looks if you don't believe and last time I checked buying them for looks and not for audio quality is a much more dumb reason for buying anything costing more than $1.50 and also knowing this you should shut up about people getting ripped off when you are buying them for superficial reasons.

A. Perhaps when you have more experience with cables you will encounter a broken one. I've had a number of dodgy cables; poor joints, broken coating exposing the wire, etc.

B. Now you're just being an idiot, do you know nothing about cables? Use an iBud cable for 32 amp mains power and watch your house burn down! There are all sorts of different cables for different jobs. What I'm talking about is a correctly specified cable (including the gauge) for the job. I take this as self evident, obviously you don't.

C. I have to move my cables round a fair bit so I need them to have a reasonably robust construction. As you would know if you'd read my original post, my unbalanced interconnects cost me about $8.00, not much to pay for not having to worry about damage, connectors falling out or general poor workmanship.

D. You've got absolutely no idea what you are talking about!! Even if I did buy them for looks, at least that would be a real and tangible difference. Certainly nowhere near as dumb as buying them for imagined, non-existant differences in audio quality!

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Like I said before, there are lots of reasons for some people not hearing a difference but that doesnt mean everyone cant hear these differences.

There is only one reason people can't hear differences and that is because there are no differences to be heard. The measureable differences are orders of magnitude below the threshold of human hearing. So it's not a great leap of faith or logic to say that everyone can't hear differences.

Some people will hear and believe in cable differences, I agree with you. Some people also believe Elvis is still alive, some people believe in horoscopes and others believe that the Spice Girls were great singers!! I'm sure there are far more people who believe in horoscopes than believe in expensive ICs, doesn't make it anymore true though.

Your immature and deluded responses on cable threads never cease to amuse me. Your weak unsubstantiated arguments, assumption and your ability to insult others from a position of ignorance are also impressive.

Try to be a grown up; cut out the insults and write intelligent responses and who knows, maybe someone might take you seriously.

G

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif A) I have never seen one that is broken.

You must not have seen many stock cables being used frequently. I've broken several by accidentally stepping on them while plugged in, and some have died on me just by plugging/unplugging them over time (after a point the signal just cuts out and becomes crummy).

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif B) If the wire gauge needs to be equal to or greater than a particular size then cables do make a difference.

Sure, cables make a difference at the most trivial level. However, this doesn't falsify the actual argument of the "skeptic," which is that beyond a reasonable build quality and conformity to electrical standards, excessively expensive cables do not make a difference. When people say "cables make a difference" they mean the argument that I outlined - they just take for granted that people will know what they're talking about instead of taking each word literally and without context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif C) The cables pictured above cost about $1.50 so who cares if they break. You would have to break about 20 of them to equal the price of a BJC.

Yes, but then every time they'd break you'd have to go get a new cable, either by driving to the store or buying a 20-pack and stashing them in your closet. Best case scenario would be that I'd have to unplug/untangle the cable from behind my desk, grab the new one out of the closet, and plug it back in. At that point, I'd rather spend the 3 bucks and get a rugged monoprice cable, or 7 dollars for Hosa 1/4" cables, which are for all intents and purposes indestructable, solely for convenience's sake. A couple of bucks here and there is definitely worth it to avoid the headache of constantly having to replace cables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif D) You know damn well you bought them for looks if you don't believe and last time I checked buying them for looks and not for audio quality is a much more dumb reason for buying anything costing more than $1.50 and also knowing this you should shut up about people getting ripped off when you are buying them for superficial reasons.

Even if someone did buy cables solely for looks, that doesn't make the purchase meaningless. I built a DIY cable because I wanted one in red - in my setup, I now have a red minijack cable, a pair of blue monster RCA's, and a pair of black Hosa's. If I ever need to identify or locate a cable, I can trace its path much easier than if I had a bunch of black cables where tracing its path is next to impossible just by eyeballing it. Color coding cables is a major boon for me, and I expect that it could help a lot of other people as well.


Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif So much Bull.

Clearly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Like I said before, there are lots of reasons for some people not hearing a difference but that doesnt mean everyone cant hear these differences.

It also doesn't mean that anyone can in fact hear those differences, or even that the differences exist at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your so worried about them breaking then I will send you a handfull from a box full of those suckers, just like anyone else who buys electronics has.

Will you also come and replace them for me when they break? Even if I pay myself minimum wage for my time, it's still worth it for me to spend 7 dollars on Hosa cables than to spend time replacing the cables that break when I could spare myself the effort and annoyance of having the shielding snap on a cable or having the signal cut out.

 

[fhuang]

COME ON GUYS, first it's off topic and second let them say how great or they need their blue jeans cable or whatever. it just make no sense, a 30 dollar cable is a must and a 300 dollar cable is dumb?

 

[fhuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif A) I have never seen one that is broken. B) If the wire gauge needs to be equal to or greater than a particular size then cables do make a difference. C) The cables pictured above cost about $1.50 so who cares if they break. You would have to break about 20 of them to equal the price of a BJC. D) You know damn well you bought them for looks if you don't believe and last time I checked buying them for looks and not for audio quality is a much more dumb reason for buying anything costing more than $1.50 and also knowing this you should shut up about people getting ripped off when you are buying them for superficial reasons. So much Bull. Like I said before, there are lots of reasons for some people not hearing a difference but that doesnt mean everyone cant hear these differences. If your so worried about them breaking then I will send you a handfull from a box full of those suckers, just like anyone else who buys electronics has.

a)what do you mean you've not seen one broken? have you seen Patrick with his video? he was using it for exercise. of course it's going to break, somehow.

b)do they? :

c)of course people cares about breaking those a dollar cable. you know people are saving money for a hd800

d)i've known some people getting a cayman(automatic, not manual) just for the look. not for speed.

 

[glitch39]

I'm a semi-believer. Can't live with those $1 IC's - connectors are too loose, cables break easily, etc. Coax, however, has inherent noise rejection properties and the solid core is 18AWG is able to carry the signal w/ very very minimal loss.

Comcast supplies for free those japan-made solid core 18AWG coax cables with really good end terminators. when trying to save $$, I would grab a pair of their 18" cables and buy from RS those coax to phono RCA adapters for $1.50 each. voila! quality IC for less than $10 a pair.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a semi-believer. Can't live with those $1 IC's - connectors are too loose, cables break easily, etc. Coax, however, has inherent noise rejection properties and the solid core is 18AWG is able to carry the signal is very minimal loss. Comcast supplies for free those japan-made solid core 18AWG coax cables with really good end terminators. when trying to save $$, I would grab a pair of their 18" cables and buy from RS those coax to phono RCA adapters for $1.50 each. voila! quality IC for less than $10 a pair.

That looks like a good idea, kinda like a home made BJC. Smart

 

[Quadrangulum]

I use Blue Jeans for my new headphone set up and I have zero complaints. On my speaker set up, I used the cheapest speaker cables I could find at Home Depot and I even used stock cables like the ones in krmathis's picture as my ICs; I detected no difference between this and the same configuration (same amp, source, speakers) at the store that utilized Nordost wiring throughout. I'm also very sensitive to sound so I don't think my inability to detected differences is because I have poor hearing. I purchased the BJC for durability and since I read that some cheap XLR cables have tight fitting connectors.

I think I'd like to try some expensive cables sometime down the line just to get some more experience under the belt but I decided to take a pass on it for now since it seems silly to allot a big part of my audio budget at the expense of an amplifier, source, or headphones.

 

[glitch39]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadrangulum /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'd like to try some expensive cables sometime down the line just to get some more experience under the belt but I decided to take a pass on it for now since it seems silly to a lot a big part of my audio budget at the expense of an amplifier, source, or headphones.

that's smart.....

Your system is only as good as your weakest point. so cables (IC, power, etc) are usually the last to be upgraded when you are ready extract the last xx% of the audio potential.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadrangulum /img/forum/go_quote.gif and I even used stock cables like the ones in krmathis's picture as my ICs; I detected no difference between this and the same configuration (same amp, source, speakers) at the store that utilized Nordost wiring throughout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadrangulum /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'd like to try some expensive cables sometime down the line just to get some more experience under the belt

If you could not detect a difference between Nordost and stock why do you think other expensive cables will be different ?

 

[terriblepaulz]

Radio Shack, mom's basement, pack-rat friends.

Man, I want to be a believer - I like good-looking objects, and I am a sucker for good design (e.g. my love of mid-century modern furniture). But I can only push it so far before Mr. Left Brain takes over. The obvious cure is more disposable income. Back to work!

 

[endless402]

nordost is prob the easiest cable to tell the difference

it's fast and lean vs your standard copper cable. hope your amp can keep up. not a cable that i'd partner with a tube.

 

[Quadrangulum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you could not detect a difference between Nordost and stock why do you think other expensive cables will be different ?

Just curiosity and because there really isn't anything else that I want to do with my audio set up in terms of equipment. I'm willing to lend the other side the benefit of the doubt as I know my experiences were quite rushed and based on memory. Of course I'd only do this with a good return policy.

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless402 /img/forum/go_quote.gif nordost is prob the easiest cable to tell the difference it's fast and lean vs your standard copper cable. hope your amp can keep up. not a cable that i'd partner with a tube.

Apparently tubes don't push electrons fast enough for nordost. I'm still not sure if this is serious or not.

 

[endless402]

from my experience, nordost works best with solid state (but not always since sometimes tube amps are too bold...). it wouldnt make sense to use it with a tube amp anyways since the point of a tube amp is to have a warmer sound and the nordost is the opposite.

i like the fact that it's fast and has good detail resolution, but didnt like the leaner sound which is why i didnt keep it and went with a different silver cable.

now i'm back to a wamer copper cable since i changed my speakers recently. i'm always looking for IC's since it's fun to experiment with them and they dont lose their resale value