[George Taylor]

Thoughts on where to go from M-Audio AV40? Audioengine 2+/5+, Kanto YU4, something else entirely? Budget under $400.

These wouldn't be my main listening option, my Senn 558 and whatever I upgrade those to would be. These would be for a computer desk application, fed from a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 DAC.

I recently bought a pair of the Kanto YU4 and am quite happy with them. I do not have any experience with the others you've mentioned. I do not have a sub connected to them, but feel they have more than enough bass for my liking. I'm generally not going for a surround sound type set up here, just basic gaming and occasional movie watching. And music, of course. More than anything else, music.

 

[Pharmaboy]

What do people think of the brand Klipsch, for these types of monitors?

I heard some lower level ones about 19 years ago, and I liked them then.

Just wanted to see how others thought of them now.

There are a number of Klipsch 2-way passive speakers around (check Audio Advisor, Crutchfield, etc...read user comments). I've never heard any of them.

You should remain aware that, if these are to be used in a desktop environment, you're putting horn tweeters 2-3 feet from your ears. That may or may not be a good idea. The reviews & user comments may/may not hint at this.

Most speakers are not optimized/designed for nearfield use. However, some of those can be very good in desktop applications. Other speakers are designed from the start for nearfield use, and of course have high odds of success for that.

Of all the reading I've done about Klipsch 2-ways, the comments that come to mind are "dynamic" and (sometimes) "accurate" or "bright." The latter may or may not be real. Sometimes a low-distortion, extremely efficient speaker can really "jump at your ears" and to some, that can sound "hard" or "bright." Just recycling old user comments here...never heard any of these.

 

[Pharmaboy]

@Pharmaboy, what have you read/heard regarding the brand I ended up buying during my search, the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s?

I was extremely interested in these...1 of 2-3 models w/non-trad tweeters that interested me. Read the user comments & reviews for these--intriguing. Like most powered studio monitors, they were never really intended for music appreciation, but I gather a number of users got them for that purpose and liked them...

They were just too deep for the desktop. They're also discontinued, though they pop up used now and then.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I bought a keyboard with volume controls on it. (One button to mute; one button to increase volume; one button to decrease volume).

I can use those buttons to control the volume of the speakers.

As @Pharmaboy mentioned, it's not practical to use the controls on the back of the speakers.

Trying to advise, not preach here: but you really won't hear what your speakers + amp or powered monitors can do until you get away from using the computer audio outputs for digital conversion (think that's what you refer to).

But if I'm wrong--if you already have an external DAC & would be using keyboard buttons purely for volume control--that's also a potentially quality-robbing maneuver, since the volume control would surely be in the digital domain, thus robbing you of bits for music.

There's really no substitute for old fashioned RCA pair in/ RCA pair out volume control w/a trad volume potentiometer. That may be found on a device called a preamplifier; a passive preamp; a headphone amp that doubles as a preamp; etc. For the first decade of my desktop music adventure, I used a simple, inexpensive passive controller by NHT ("PVC") which to this day is the best sounding, least noticeable volume controller ever. It was discontinued long ago or I'd recommend it...

This can easily become a longer conversation--if, for example, you don't have a DAC (can't recall, frankly), are unsure about cost or availability of good DACs, etc. If so, pls advise.

 

[Ra97oR]

Something like a Chord Mojo would work directly as a monitor pre amp really.

My setup have a passive monitor volume control so I can run my Mojo at line level and feed both my monitors and headphone amplifier. One with a mute button and an amp with a input switch can be handy.

 

[Pharmaboy]

nice focals!

also nice to see I'm not the only one forced to put the monitors/speakers too close to back wall (in my case, it's a wall w/5' X 4' picture window covered by shades).

 

[Pharmaboy]

Update about the new/used ATC SCM12 Pro monitors:

I installed these big/bold monitors + the Wyred4Sound ST-500 class D amp ~ 1 week ago. It has been extremely interesting listening to these high-quality transducers, the best speakers I've heard in decades. It's mostly good news w/a little bad news thrown in (as usual).

Good news:
The ATCs are a rare combination of extremely accurate, faithful, and revealing--but not especially edgy or bright unless cranked (see "Bad News" below). I thought my powered ZenPro mod Yamaha HS7s were revealing, information-rich low-volume speakers, but the ATCs are in a whole different league. No matter how low a volume I listen, all the music is there, including the bass. Very even, level, balanced sounding speakers.

The bass is among the best I've ever heard from speakers--kind of shocking that it could be this good in a 2-way design, where the woofer handles not just bass, but also the majority of the midrange. Nevertheless, the bass is quietly spectacular. When I play jazz featuring string bass, for example, the upper notes of the string bass are rendered with as much authority and clarity as I've ever heard. I also should note that the advantages of a sealed, acoustic suspension design are also on full display here: bass that's tight w/o being tedious. It billows up, getting bigger/louder in a very analogue, musical way (just like music does IRL). And at the bottom of this speaker's effective range (below ~60Hz, where it starts falling off precipitously, as sealed designs do), the bass decays ultra-naturally.

The midrange is also vast & informative on the ATCs. That's the heart of music, and the ATCs just don't quit in level, detailed midrange information. I have no problem seeing why these are used by music professionals in recording/mixing studios...

Even listening at low volume as I work (typically classical music), I am frequently diverted by the clarity & musical value of what I'm hearing. These are truly great speakers.

Bad news:
As I'm finding pretty much all speakers do, things don't sound so good when I crank them. The upper midrange/lower treble hardens and transients get sharp. They really didn't sound this way in a more open space before putting them here in home office w/just ~1 ft. behind them. Oh, well. I plan to get a Schitt Loki (4 band hardware equalizer) to reduce the level of that range a bit (perhaps only when I crank them...? easy to do w/the Loki using the bypass switch).

I also still have to wire in a high-grade external crossover to direct frequencies above ~70-75 Hz to the ATC and below that, to the sub. That may have an effect on what I hear when I crank it (because it's much higher quality design & components than the simple high-pass crossover built into the sub). Either because of the Loki or the external crossover, it would be really nice if I could crank these babies once in awhile.

Audio is really fun...what else can I say?

 

[theveterans]

As I'm finding pretty much all speakers do, things don't sound so good when I crank them. The upper midrange/lower treble hardens and transients get sharp. They really didn't sound this way in a more open space before putting them here in home office w/just ~1 ft. behind them. Oh, well. I plan to get a Schitt Loki (4 band hardware equalizer) to reduce the level of that range a bit (perhaps only when I crank them...? easy to do w/the Loki using the bypass switch).

I disagree with the cranking up the speakers sounding worse. I regularly crank up my bone stock Yamaha HS7 to over 90 dBa peaks and even exceeding 100 dBa peak loudness when watching action movies and the upper mids never sharpen nor harden. BTW, at 82+ dBa average, you can hear all of the details of your music just as good as the Sennheiser HD800 IME so IMO the HS7 (stock amp) resolution is excellent.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I disagree with the cranking up the speakers sounding worse. I regularly crank up my bone stock Yamaha HS7 to over 90 dBa peaks and even exceeding 100 dBa peak loudness when watching action movies and the upper mids never sharpen nor harden. BTW, at 82+ dBa average, you can hear all of the details of your music just as good as the Sennheiser HD800 IME so IMO the HS7 (stock amp) resolution is excellent.

Maybe I wasn't clear. In my home office, which has no sound attenuation or reinforcement materials on walls/ceiling, and not enough room behind the speakers--none of the 4 pairs of powered or passive speakers/monitors Ive had here over the past decade have sounded very good when cranked. The problem always is some degree of hardening of the upper midrange/lower treble.

Specific to the Yahama HS7s: they sounded somewhat different, and better, when I was burning them in (in the garage), with plenty of space in all directions. I could turn them up w/less of this problem, though there was a little (I found the Yamahas to be somewhat "mid-rangy," so that was the area that didn't scale up quite as well as everything else at higher volume).

But to find a relatively similar issue developing with the ATCs (a far more expensive speaker) when cranked in my office, when I didn't hear it in another, larger space in the house--it suggests that the primary culprit is my room

Having said that, the ATCs + amp sound relatively unlike the Yamahas in a number of ways. They are certainly different designs: the ATCs are acoustic suspension/sealed, significantly larger, more strongly built, and the drivers spec'd to a higher standard (though the Yamahas are also rather well built). They're both good, but the ATCs are just better.

Then again, the Yamahas are better than the 2 previous pairs of powered monitors--significantly better.

It's all relative.

 

[Ra97oR]

nice focals!

also nice to see I'm not the only one forced to put the monitors/speakers too close to back wall (in my case, it's a wall w/5' X 4' picture window covered by shades).

I have at least half a foot of space behind the speakers to the acoustic foam. Tried moving them further away, but didn't make much difference other than making my room smaller.

The rear ported Genelec really didn't like being close to the wall, especially untreated wall but the front ported Focal didn't care as much.

 

[nuraman00]

Trying to advise, not preach here: but you really won't hear what your speakers + amp or powered monitors can do until you get away from using the computer audio outputs for digital conversion (think that's what you refer to).

But if I'm wrong--if you already have an external DAC & would be using keyboard buttons purely for volume control--that's also a potentially quality-robbing maneuver, since the volume control would surely be in the digital domain, thus robbing you of bits for music.

There's really no substitute for old fashioned RCA pair in/ RCA pair out volume control w/a trad volume potentiometer. That may be found on a device called a preamplifier; a passive preamp; a headphone amp that doubles as a preamp; etc. For the first decade of my desktop music adventure, I used a simple, inexpensive passive controller by NHT ("PVC") which to this day is the best sounding, least noticeable volume controller ever. It was discontinued long ago or I'd recommend it...

This can easily become a longer conversation--if, for example, you don't have a DAC (can't recall, frankly), are unsure about cost or availability of good DACs, etc. If so, pls advise.

No, I don't already have a DAC. It's on my wishlist.

How does adjusting the volume digitally from a keyboard hinder the quality?

When I get a DAC, I want one with both 3.5mm out so I can use the 3.5mm to RCA adapter to connect it to my speakers, and optical out so I can also use it with my personal CD player when I want to use that. There's not many DACs that have both. I did see one though last year.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Assuming your keyboard is varying volume while the signal is still in the digital domain--the attenuation might be done via truncation (elimination) of digital "bits" of resolution: in this case, maximum/unattenuated volume is not "lossy" (no bits are truncated), but the more attenuation that is applied, the more bits are truncated.

That's a generality. What matters are the specific components in your system & how they do things.

Regardless, the standard wisdom is:
-- use an external DAC of the best quality you can afford/manage
-- send unattenuated digital signal to that device via USB or other means
-- put an analog volume attenuator of some kind on the output of the DAC.

Re the various outputs of a DAC that you mention, the only "fly in the ointment" is that the DACs I've seen mute all but the selected output. For example, a DAC w/coax out + toslink out + RCA L+R out will mute the coax & toslink if the RCA outputs are carrying signal.

 

[Pharmaboy]

UPDATE: to the post about my new ATCs. "There have been developments" as they say in police procedurals.

As background, I have to explain couple details of my overly complex signal chain:

• For the entire time I've had a desktop system, I've had subwoofers in the system.
• With both subs I've had, the signal from my DAC went to a headphone amp/preamp; then a 2M interconnect took the preamp output to the RCA inputs of the sub.
• Each sub had a high pass output pair (L+R RCA) filtered to remove signal below 80Hz (slope of 12 dBA/octave).
• Another 2M interconnect took the signal from the sub to powered speakers (NHTs; then Yamaha's); or more recently, the Wyred4Sound class D amp that powers the ATC SCM12 Pro's.

I've had upper midrange/lower treble anomalies in all 4 speaker systems I've used in this home office. I chalked my speaker issues up to room boundary stuff--ie, back wall being too close to back of speakers. For example, the Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s, for example, had upper midrange shoutiness & congestion as well as overly plump bass due to rear port facing nearby wall & window.

Then I got the ATCs, which are renowned in pro audio for their accuracy & listenability. They sounded really fine here as long as I didn't push the volume much (they're the best low-volume speakers I've ever heard, even somewhat better than the excellent Yamaha's). But when I cranked them up, upper midrange brightness & congestion kicked in. Hard to listen at medium-loud, as I like to do sometimes.

Meanwhile, for 2+ years I've had an external 2-way crossover made by Marchand sitting on the sidelines. This crossover splits the incoming/main signal into a low pass RCA pair (signal below selected crossover frequency); and high pass RCA pair (signal above that frequency). Crossover frequency is selectable & variable from the front panel; crossover slopes are a rigorous 24 dB/octave.

I've known for some time the only way to be totally sure the inexpensive little crossover cards in these subs aren't messing w/the sound, is to put this Marchand crossover in the signal chain. Which I just did. It took over an hour...wires everywhere.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!

This is one of the most successful audio upgrades I've ever done. Now I can crank the ATCs 'til my ears bleed...GREAT sound at any volume. The entire midrange sounds calmer, smoother, even more detailed. The lower mids/upper bass sound flatter, clearer, more detailed. These monitors are extremely good...they make beautiful music. For the first time, I'm hearing them as intended. All because of a crossover switch...

Now I can't help but wonder what those Yamaha's "really sound like" (?!?) Will try that out this week, just for S & G's.

 

[damex]

hi, is there something ultra compact available on market that is worth to get? (that i could easily take with me during relocation and won't need to sell off) i am looking at something very small to keep on table next to laptop which would use little to no space.

 

[xoxiax]

hi, is there something ultra compact available on market that is worth to get? (that i could easily take with me during relocation and won't need to sell off) i am looking at something very small to keep on table next to laptop which would use little to no space.

I've had or tried the audioengine 2, iloud multimedia, eve sc203 and genelec 6010 (now 8010). All are great mini speakers (with different prices, i know), but here Genelec reigns, i still use it daily on my desktop and we have lived together in 4 different countries... Aufdioengine, not being bad, would be the weakest of the bunch to my ears, no doubt. The other three present a bass response with surprising authority for their size, and all of them have a full bodied, well articulated, non bloated sound (for their size, i insist). The Genelec's sound excels at precision, imaging and soundstage, that's why they were my final choice. Despite being inspired by the Genelec's pro line i find these ones less dry, more "multitask" than it's bigger brothers). To my ears they sound simply better than the iloud and more "musical" than the Eve's, which are also great.

Hope it helps.