[552609]

Uh, no. Android does not make it heavier. Sheesh. Two points - carrying two similar devices is somewhat redundant when the OS is Android in both and that the DAP has a touchscreen instead of functioning through buttons. I'm just listening to music and don't need a fancy screen or Android OS to do so nor do I want to carry around two similarly sized devices. I've got a cellphone in one pocket and a set of keys with a freakishly large key FOB like all auto manufacturers are making nowadays in the other so where am I supposed to carry another cellphone sized device? Dragonfly Red is not a solution as I have to plug that into a PC and which pocket does THAT fit in? The Cobalt might be an option but again I'd be using the phone for control and, again, touchscreen.

I guess I just don't see a need for a touchscreen out in the wild. Players are in your pocket so you just reach in, feel for and touch the appropriate button. With a touchscreen you have to remove it from your pocket, activate the screen, navigate to where you want to go etc. If that's what they are pushing nowadays, they my phone can do that albeit not with an ultra high end DAC. So maybe the Cobalt is the right solution but, again, touchscreen!

I get the suggestion of a smart watch but I'd need to pair that with a phone so that's not really a solution.

I guess I'm just not a fan of everything going touchscreen.

The Shanling M1 just came out - it's not android and it's very small. Your avoidance of android makes no sense, but that and the M0 are good options for portability.

 

[NymPHONOmaniac]

Wow, i was surprise to see this thread!
Me too i'm a ''non android'' DAP guys, well, for personal quest...since I'm testing a Hiby RS6 for review purpose right now.
But, it's refreshing i'm not alone about this.
For streaming and stuffs, I use phone + dongle, while for disconnecting from ''wifi reality'' i use non wifi DAP.
Like Questyle QP2R and oldie but goldie Ibasso DX90. I have 2x DX90 and still highly suggest it used market can be 150$, and its a freakin bargain imo

 

[Quadfather]

Wow, i was surprise to see this thread!
Me too i'm a ''non android'' DAP guys, well, for personal quest...since I'm testing a Hiby RS6 for review purpose right now.
But, it's refreshing i'm not alone about this.
For streaming and stuffs, I use phone + dongle, while for disconnecting from ''wifi reality'' i use non wifi DAP.
Like Questyle QP2R and oldie but goldie Ibasso DX90. I have 2x DX90 and still highly suggest it used market can be 150$, and its a freakin bargain imo

I am 100% with owned, local files. No streaming whatsoever. No Android. I have a Sony NW-WM1Z and Lotoo Paw Gold Touch. I have a Sony NW-A55 for audiobooks.

 

[kevinkar]

The Shanling M1 just came out - it's not android and it's very small. Your avoidance of android makes no sense, but that and the M0 are good options for portability.

Thanks for the suggestion. But, what do you mean "avoidance of android makes no sense"? I just explained why it makes sense. I have an existing Android device in one pocket, why do I want ANOTHER similarly sized one in my other pocket? Am I supposed to load that up with all the other Android apps from the phone too? OR is it really just for music? If so, all the Android overhead makes no sense.

It makes total sense to have a cellphone with all the bells and whistles in one pocket and a smaller high definition audio-only device in another pocket yet not duplicate everything else the other device does with the exception of being a cellphone which the DAP does not do! Explain why that doesn't make sense?

If cellphones did not exist yet everyone carried around an Android personal digital assistant (remember those?), it certainly does make a lot of sense to drop the low-fi one and get one that does all the Android stuff AND plays back HD music. ONE device. I'm with you on that. But duplicating something just to have HD music also is a waste of money and resources thus the question.

If you want to carry around multiple devices, that's up to you. But right now I have a giant cellphone in one pocket and the much smaller Fiio X5 in my shirt pocket and, when HD is not required, a much much smaller Creative Zen Nano which works totally fine and takes up no room whatsoever for running and working out when low or normal fidelity is all that's needed.

 

[kevinkar]

Redundant post. Deleted.

 

[552609]

Thanks for the suggestion. But, what do you mean "avoidance of android makes no sense"? I just explained why it makes sense. I have an existing Android device in one pocket, why do I want ANOTHER similarly sized one in my other pocket? Am I supposed to load that up with all the other Android apps from the phone too? OR is it really just for music? If so, all the Android overhead makes no sense.

It makes total sense to have a cellphone with all the bells and whistles in one pocket and a smaller high definition audio-only device in another pocket yet not duplicate everything else the other device does with the exception of being a cellphone which the DAP does not do! Explain why that doesn't make sense?

If cellphones did not exist yet everyone carried around an Android personal digital assistant (remember those?), it certainly does make a lot of sense to drop the low-fi one and get one that does all the Android stuff AND plays back HD music. ONE device. I'm with you on that. But duplicating something just to have HD music also is a waste of money and resources thus the question.

If you want to carry around multiple devices, that's up to you. But right now I have a giant cellphone in one pocket and the much smaller Fiio X5 in my shirt pocket and, when HD is not required, a much much smaller Creative Zen Nano which works totally fine and takes up no room whatsoever for running and working out when low or normal fidelity is all that's needed.

You just said you carry a high-def audio device around in your pocket. Who cares what the platform is? The only thing that matters is the sound quality. I carry both, one is for MUSIC, the other is a phone - doesn't matter what OS it runs off of. And yes, the Android DAPs are the best I've heard because of their sound quality, not the OS. yet, the OS makes it really easy to download and use Tidal, which is convenient. The OS is irrelevant except for how you interact with it. I'll take an Android DAP like Shanling or HiBy over an A&K or iBasso DAP any day of the week because their terrible UI prevents me from enjoying the device. I recommend you go try a few more DAPs before you make baseless claims.

 

[kevinkar]

You just said you carry a high-def audio device around in your pocket. Who cares what the platform is? The only thing that matters is the sound quality. I carry both, one is for MUSIC, the other is a phone - doesn't matter what OS it runs off of. And yes, the Android DAPs are the best I've heard because of their sound quality, not the OS. yet, the OS makes it really easy to download and use Tidal, which is convenient. The OS is irrelevant except for how you interact with it. I'll take an Android DAP like Shanling or HiBy over an A&K or iBasso DAP any day of the week because their terrible UI prevents me from enjoying the device. I recommend you go try a few more DAPs before you make baseless claims.

Just stop it. You don't agree and that's fine but my claims are not baseless. I don't need or want TWO Android devices when one will do. I do not want an Android music player I generally have to pull out of my pocket, enable the screen and then use that touch screen to operate it when a DAP with a regular non-touch screen and hard buttons safely tucked in my pocket where I can manipulate it by touch alone will suffice. THAT'S why I care what the platform is. Most if not all Android devices need to have the screen on to operate them. I don't want to do that.

It doesn't matter that all that other stuff is fine FOR YOU. My question is NOT "Please tell me what works great for you." NO, it's "What are the best non-Android DAPs? Or are they all gone?" If you don't have a reply to that, you have nothing to add so please stop badgering me with claims of "you don't know what you're talking about" or "baseless this or that". You're not helping and are only arguing to try and prove my question is not worth asking when there have been several members who clearly agree with my preference too.

Just because you don't want one does not make the question irrelevant. Please move on.

 

[Lyneside]

I too would like to know about non android DAPs, android on a DAP makes about as much sense to me as Win11 on a calculator.

 

[Rackhour]

Not an obvious choice…but are you open to used, retrofitted gear?

There is a vibrant cottage industry for retrofitting iPod Classics. Lots of extended batteries, custom cases, and internal SD card readers that take the place of the old hard drives.

They also can use a custom firmware called Rockbox, which helps negate the need for iTunes and allows more codecs to be played on iPods.

Hacky and janky, I agree. But it does indeed have no touch screen.

 

[bamboostreet]

I too would like to know about non android DAPs, android on a DAP makes about as much sense to me as Win11 on a calculator.

Ha ha!
Surfans f20, mechen m30, hifiwalker h2, xduoo x2s

 

[Rackhour]

OP,

On a lark, I went browsing on Linsoul, and came across something called the Aune M1P. At least on paper, it ticks your boxes.

Might be worth considering.

 

[Lyneside]

Ha ha!
Surfans f20, mechen m30, hifiwalker h2, xduoo x2s

Yeah I have a Surfans F20 and it is a great little thing. Paired with bluetooth earbuds it isn't terribly "high fi" like that but for walking the dogs or connecting to the car it fits a niche for me.

 

[bamboostreet]

Yeah I have a Surfans F20 and it is a great little thing. Paired with bluetooth earbuds it isn't terribly "high fi" like that but for walking the dogs or connecting to the car it fits a niche for me.

Yeah, surfans is not bad, but i think hifiwalker is slightly superior in term of sound. Xduoo is the worst, slow and clunky...

 

[Vamp898]

Simple question and one that's more and more difficult to answer. Looks like just about everyone is moving towards or has already moved to Android-based hi-res DAPs and there's no way I'm carrying TWO Android devices around. A 6" phone is bad enough but to have a second large Android device is just not going to happen. At least with a Fiio X5 2nd Gen, it's reasonably small enough to carry in my shirt or jacket pocket and control without looking at it but another cellphone-sized device where I generally needd to look at the screen and touch it is not in my present or future.

Unless hi-res DAP manufacturers decide to add cell phone capability to their devices, I'm "stuck" with my X5 for hi-res sources. I know I can play them on my phone (Galaxy S9) and, honestly, there's not THAT much difference between the S9 and the X5 in terms of what my 56-year-old ears hear (I know, heresy... So what?) so if I have to carry an Android device with some hi-res flac files, the S9 is fine. I have rudimentary control over it with the ear bud buttons or the hard buttons on the phone but to do anything complex, I have to take it out of my pocket and look at it and touch the screen. Inconvenient. Just like all the Android-based DAPs nowadays.

But for those favorites I've spent the money for hi-res versions of, I want to play those on the best portable device I can and that's currently my X5. I can have that in my pocket and not have to take it out to look at it to perform any functions. Just touch the right button and move on. But when it fails..... what then? Everyone is moving to Android which I already have in a cell phone.

So are there any really good non-Android DAPs out there and, if so, which ones are "best"? I'm guessing there are not that many worth mentioning since all the high end stuff is now Android-based (I'm generally perusing the Portable Source Gear forum) but nothing seems that great in Android form. At least not for me.

Just wondering what, if anything, was really out there that is not Android and if it's any good. Or am I generally out of luck?

DAPs are getting bigger because they are getting better, thats unrelated to android. They use larger and larger DAC and Amp Chips, bigger/better capacitors and so on.

Take the NW-A300 for example. It Android and is tiny, really tiny. Smaller than the FiiO X5 2nd Gen. I think even the ZX500 (also uses Android) is smaller than the X5.

The ZX300 (Custom OS) and the ZX500 (Android) are almost identical in size and weight as you can see here



But the ZX700 is bigger than the ZX500, both use Android



On the other hand, the WM1 for example doesn't use Android and is a giant brick because it has a large board. And the board with the newer generations are even bigger.

How do you want to fit such an board into an small device

Its just impossible. And the chips to run Android are the same chips as you use to run custom OSs, so there is no difference in the SoC size for the OS part.

As said, the NW-A300 is very tiny, smaller than your FiiO and it does use Android



So as you see, having Android doesn't make a DAP bigger and its not the reason why DAPs keep getting bigger.

These 4 DAPs (A300, ZX500, ZX700, WM1AM2) all use Android and are all from the same maker, still they differ drastically in size

In addition to that, Sony DAPs have Touchscreens since ages, the Android ones and the non Android ones.

They also have physical buttons, but they are the same. So you have the exact same Buttons with and without Android and the exact same Touchscreen with and without Android.

Sony uses Android on their DAPs since 2008 since the NW-X1000, and every flagship except the WM1 from 2016 used Android (X1000, Z1000, ZX1, ZX2, WM1 M2). So its not like they are currently moving to Android, they are using Android since 15 years now. Most people had an Android DAP before they had an Android Smartphone.



The FiiO X5 2nd Gen doesn't use Android because its the cheaper device. The X7 (released the same year) uses Android. So its not an current trend, it never changed. Not using Android has become an trend for very cheap entry level devices from China because they didn't had the money for an Android license.

 

[Vamp898]

I too would like to know about non android DAPs, android on a DAP makes about as much sense to me as Win11 on a calculator.

You don't have to Download the Music onto your PC and transfer it via Cable and you can use music streaming services. Those are two good reasons, but if you don't need any of these features, you're right. There is not much use for an Android device. But you still need an OS^^

I am very happy that after buying an Album, i can just open the Music Store App and it instantly starts downloading the Album and im done. Not having to donwnload it via PC, search for an USB Cable, plug the DAP into the PC, move the files into the correct folder, delete them again from the PC and so on makes the whole process much more enjoyable.

And the calculator comparison is a bit off. If they don't run Android, the run a custom Linux OS or Windows or iOS or whatever (depending on the DAP) which is not less complex.

Not to mention that Windows 11 runs on a _lot_ of devices that are not PCs. It runs on Train Station Displays and the Displays of Bus and Trains, it even runs in some cars to display the cockpit, lot of ATMs, industry systems and so on. Its called Windows Embedded.

An operating System is there to run Software on it and an Music Player is Software. Just because the non-Android DAPs hide the OS, doesn't mean its not there. You don't see it and you're unable to use it. So DAP Makers could theoretically just block you from using any of the Apps and you would never know nor notice that it even runs Android.

The restaurant where i order food for example uses Android Tablets for their Order System. But because they don't look like and you can't use the Android, pretty much nobody knows/notices it. The order Systems at McDonalds and Burger King are Android too. Pretty much everything that has an display and does not run windows, runs Adnroid these days. Its an portable, embedded operating system that is easy to customize, so why not?

It was made to do exactly that, so its not like misusing the wrong tool for the job or something like that. Sony runs Android on their DAPs almost since Android exists. The NX-X1000 from 2008 already used Android. And since then, every flagship except the WM1 from 2016 used Android.

So is that what you're asking for? Putting the Music Player App in Autostart and hide the OS so you can't use it?