What are the best non-Android DAPs? Or are they all gone?
Jul 27, 2023 at 9:12 PM Post #46 of 69
I think you're convoluting my question into something I did not ask. The issue is simple - I have a powerful Android device in my pocket already called a smartphone. To use it I have to take it out of my pocket, activate the screen and manipulate the screen to do what I want to do. To have a SECOND equally large device in another pocket that duplicates everything the phone does with the exception of the cellphone part is ridiculously cumbersome and takes up another full pocket. Add to that I need to take it out of my pocket, activate the screen and do what I need to do which is basically just listen to music, playlists or whatever and reach in, touch the right button WHILE STILL IN MY POCKET and move on.

I'll grant you that some current DAPs have buttons you can access without needing to take the DAP out of your pocket and activate the touchscreen.

So I have to duplicate a device that does what another device already does with the exception of HD music. Or I have to duplicate a device that does what another device already does with the exception of cellphone service. Why do I need to commit to carrying TWO almost identical devices with the same capabilities to have a phone and DAP? I don't go to the store in my car only to tow a truck behind it in the off chance I might go to Home Depot. I don't wear one watch that tells the time only AND wear, on my other wrist, a chronograph so I can time things with the stopwatch. I just wear the chronograph.

If the underlying OS is Android, that's fine. But all I need is a screen to sometimes see what I'm playing, some transport buttons, volume buttons and a menu of some sort. Not full-on Android with all the other stuff that's already on my phone. Don't need or want two almost identical devices.
 
Jul 27, 2023 at 9:32 PM Post #47 of 69
I think you're convoluting my question into something I did not ask. The issue is simple - I have a powerful Android device in my pocket already called a smartphone. To use it I have to take it out of my pocket, activate the screen and manipulate the screen to do what I want to do. To have a SECOND equally large device in another pocket that duplicates everything the phone does with the exception of the cellphone part is ridiculously cumbersome and takes up another full pocket. Add to that I need to take it out of my pocket, activate the screen and do what I need to do which is basically just listen to music, playlists or whatever and reach in, touch the right button WHILE STILL IN MY POCKET and move on.

I'll grant you that some current DAPs have buttons you can access without needing to take the DAP out of your pocket and activate the touchscreen.

So I have to duplicate a device that does what another device already does with the exception of HD music. Or I have to duplicate a device that does what another device already does with the exception of cellphone service. Why do I need to commit to carrying TWO almost identical devices with the same capabilities to have a phone and DAP? I don't go to the store in my car only to tow a truck behind it in the off chance I might go to Home Depot. I don't wear one watch that tells the time only AND wear, on my other wrist, a chronograph so I can time things with the stopwatch. I just wear the chronograph.

If the underlying OS is Android, that's fine. But all I need is a screen to sometimes see what I'm playing, some transport buttons, volume buttons and a menu of some sort. Not full-on Android with all the other stuff that's already on my phone. Don't need or want two almost identical devices.
Have you ever tried any of Questyle's offerings? The QPM was probably one of the best Linux Based DAPs I've tried. You can still find them heavily discounted. If not the QP2R or QP1R. Lotoo also has some Non Android based DAPs that are worth checking out.
 
Jul 27, 2023 at 10:20 PM Post #48 of 69
I take it you're still searching? (I happened to be following this thread automatically)

Shanling M1S might also be of interest to you. Has physical buttons and a touchscreen.
 
Jul 28, 2023 at 8:13 PM Post #49 of 69
Have you ever tried any of Questyle's offerings? The QPM was probably one of the best Linux Based DAPs I've tried. You can still find them heavily discounted. If not the QP2R or QP1R. Lotoo also has some Non Android based DAPs that are worth checking out.

I take it you're still searching? (I happened to be following this thread automatically)

Shanling M1S might also be of interest to you. Has physical buttons and a touchscreen.
Thanks for the input to both of you. No, I have not tried Questyle yet nor the Lotoo and I'm still searching. The current roadblock is that the Fiio X5 Gen II still works great and I have no problems with sound quality (i.e. I honestly don't think anything else out there will actually sound leaps and bounds better) but I can see the day when the battery stops charging to a reasonable level and I'll have to replace it. I've seen some info on the web showing how difficult it can be to replace the battery and I likely won't try that even though I've been successful with GPS units and tablets in the past. So my question was really kind of more planning for the future.

Sadly, I'm old enough where most all products out there have better sound than I can distinguish the difference so the latest and greatest is not as important as it once was nor is the desire to get any specific DAC chip as incremental improvements are arguably difficult to really hear and appreciate. I don't want to buy anything expensive just to see how it sounds and send it back since I'm not a fan of flippers adding to the refurbished market. But ease of use and just a simple interface is important to me thus the desire to stay away from bloat and additional stuff I don't need. Just want to listen to the music without fuss.

I'll check out the Questyle and Lotoo units. Thanks for suggesting them.
 
Jul 28, 2023 at 9:05 PM Post #50 of 69
Thanks for the input to both of you. No, I have not tried Questyle yet nor the Lotoo and I'm still searching. The current roadblock is that the Fiio X5 Gen II still works great and I have no problems with sound quality (i.e. I honestly don't think anything else out there will actually sound leaps and bounds better) but I can see the day when the battery stops charging to a reasonable level and I'll have to replace it. I've seen some info on the web showing how difficult it can be to replace the battery and I likely won't try that even though I've been successful with GPS units and tablets in the past. So my question was really kind of more planning for the future.

Sadly, I'm old enough where most all products out there have better sound than I can distinguish the difference so the latest and greatest is not as important as it once was nor is the desire to get any specific DAC chip as incremental improvements are arguably difficult to really hear and appreciate. I don't want to buy anything expensive just to see how it sounds and send it back since I'm not a fan of flippers adding to the refurbished market. But ease of use and just a simple interface is important to me thus the desire to stay away from bloat and additional stuff I don't need. Just want to listen to the music without fuss.

I'll check out the Questyle and Lotoo units. Thanks for suggesting them.
Totally understandable. I wish you all the best on your quest! I can't speak to the Fiio X5 Gen II as I've never heard it. But I do remember being impressed with the Questyle DAPs. Hopefully, when that day comes you're able to replace the Fiio at a reasonable price. Have an excellent weekend @kevinkar!
 
Jul 28, 2023 at 11:34 PM Post #51 of 69
Thanks for the input to both of you. No, I have not tried Questyle yet nor the Lotoo and I'm still searching. The current roadblock is that the Fiio X5 Gen II still works great and I have no problems with sound quality (i.e. I honestly don't think anything else out there will actually sound leaps and bounds better) but I can see the day when the battery stops charging to a reasonable level and I'll have to replace it. I've seen some info on the web showing how difficult it can be to replace the battery and I likely won't try that even though I've been successful with GPS units and tablets in the past. So my question was really kind of more planning for the future.

Sadly, I'm old enough where most all products out there have better sound than I can distinguish the difference so the latest and greatest is not as important as it once was nor is the desire to get any specific DAC chip as incremental improvements are arguably difficult to really hear and appreciate. I don't want to buy anything expensive just to see how it sounds and send it back since I'm not a fan of flippers adding to the refurbished market. But ease of use and just a simple interface is important to me thus the desire to stay away from bloat and additional stuff I don't need. Just want to listen to the music without fuss.

I'll check out the Questyle and Lotoo units. Thanks for suggesting them.
What are your thoughts about a retrofitted iPod Classic? It is very hack-y but I think still viable.

I had mine retrofitted with a larger-capacity battery and an internal SD card reader. I didn’t opt for this - but you can use a custom firmware called Rockbox to change the UI and play more types of files than the stock firmware, and bypass iTunes.

I mention this because there is a very vibrant cottage industry of aftermarket parts for iPods, as well as modding shops.
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 12:05 PM Post #52 of 69
What are your thoughts about a retrofitted iPod Classic? It is very hack-y but I think still viable.

I had mine retrofitted with a larger-capacity battery and an internal SD card reader. I didn’t opt for this - but you can use a custom firmware called Rockbox to change the UI and play more types of files than the stock firmware, and bypass iTunes.

I mention this because there is a very vibrant cottage industry of aftermarket parts for iPods, as well as modding shops.
iPods run iOS
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 12:19 PM Post #53 of 69
I think you're convoluting my question into something I did not ask.
You did not ask an simple question, you wrote an essay about your dissatisfaction with the current situation so it is to be expected, that there will be no simple answer.

Your post read very unhappy, so an simple "There is no solution to your problem, bad luck" felt inappropriate to me. It seemed that you were not just seeking for an simple answer, you were angry about the current situation and i wanted to help you understand in hope, this would have taken away parts of that anger.

Often understanding why things are the way they are helps people to accept it the way it is.
The issue is simple - I have a powerful Android device in my pocket already called a smartphone.
You already have an powerfull device called an smartphone. What OS it runs is unimportant. Your situation wouldn't be different if you would own an iPhone with iOS, or would it?
To use it I have to take it out of my pocket, activate the screen and manipulate the screen to do what I want to do.
Absolutely true, that is how smartphones work.
To have a SECOND equally large device in another pocket that duplicates everything the phone does with the exception of the cellphone part
You are mixing things up. Your smarthone duplicates a lot of things other devices do.

Your smartphone is duplicating the DAP, the DAP is not duplicating the smartphone. DAPs existed before smartphones existed. I was not joking when i said, most people who used DAPs had Android on their DAP before they had Android on their Smartphone.

Your smartphone doesn't just duplicate an DAP, it also duplicates an camera, an navigation system, an gaming console, an computer and so on.

So should camera makers, computer makers, gaming console makers, navigiation system makers and DAP makers remove all features that are already there in an smartphone? Its not their fault that smartphone makers duplicate and copy these features.

There exist PCs who run Android and even support SIM Cards. You can do phone calls with your PC (i do that for example). So my PC is an almost 100% duplication of my smartphone. Should i now install MS-DOS on my PC because why have features there, that i already have on my smarpthone?

Beside that, an DAP also doesn't have a camera and doesn't support all apps from the app store, so even unrelated to the smartphone part, they are not duplicating a smartphone. But that is beside the point.
is ridiculously cumbersome and takes up another full pocket.
They would no matter what operating system they run. That is what i wanted to explain to you. If they would run an non Android OS, they would still take up another full pocket. That is the fate of an DAP. They do this since they exist! DAPs in the past even sometimes where bigger than mobile phones!
Add to that I need to take it out of my pocket, activate the screen and do what I need to do which is basically just listen to music, playlists or whatever and reach in, touch the right button WHILE STILL IN MY POCKET and move on.
So you're complaining about Touchscreens? The ZX100, ZX300 and WM1 all didn't run Android and still they all had Touchscreens. DAPs had Touchscreens long before Android even existed.
I'll grant you that some current DAPs have buttons you can access without needing to take the DAP out of your pocket and activate the touchscreen.
I don't know one DAP that doesn't have buttons. I checked like 20 DAPs from all the makers i know and all of them have all important physical buttons so you don't have to use the touchscreen. Even all current FiiO DAPs do have that.
So I have to duplicate a device that does what another device already does with the exception of HD music. Or I have to duplicate a device that does what another device already does with the exception of cellphone service. Why do I need to commit to carrying TWO almost identical devices with the same capabilities to have a phone and DAP?
You have to ask that the Smartphone makers. They are duplicating all the features of other devices. Its not the fault of Sony that other companies duplicated features in their DAPs.
I don't go to the store in my car only to tow a truck behind it in the off chance I might go to Home Depot. I don't wear one watch that tells the time only AND wear, on my other wrist, a chronograph so I can time things with the stopwatch. I just wear the chronograph.
That is true. But people use Notebooks, Cameras, Gaming Consoles and Cars, even though they are all duplicating a smartphone. Most modern cars run Android, you can read your emails with gmail on them and use Google Maps. A lot of modern cameras use Android and so on.

The Nintendo Switch even uses an Smartphone SoC(!) and runs FreeBSD. If Nintendo would allow it, it could run Android with all Apps, the Switch is basically a large smartphone with physical controls.

Would you be satisfied if Sony would disable all Android features? Why does it annoy you so much that you have these features, you don't have to use any of them. You don't even need an Google Account. You can just click Skip on the Setup phase and the Smartphone uses no Android Features whatsoever.

Why is the potential in being capable to use them if you would want to such an issue?

But better question, why do you even use an DAP at all? Smartphones duplicated DAPs, why don't you just use your smartphone to play music?

Sonys current portable gaming console, the Xperia Stream, is actually only an hardware addon for their Xperia Smartphones.

Just like that an Dongle can turn your Smartphone into an High End Audio Player. Or an portable (blueooth) amp. Your smartphone can do everything a DAP can do with an Hardware Addon.

If you use an BTR7, you don't even have to use an cable. The BTR7 supports LDAC and is as large as an lighter. So you just have to plug your earphone or headphones into an ligher sized device and place that wherever you want (you never have to touch it). Problem solved.

Or the other way around. Some people, and this is not a joke, put their SIM Card into an pocket wifi and use their DAP for everything. Why have an smartphone in the first place?

I thought about that myself. Modern DAPs are so powerful, why have a smarpthone anyway? Why not replace the smartphone with the DAP?
If the underlying OS is Android, that's fine. But all I need is a screen to sometimes see what I'm playing, some transport buttons, volume buttons and a menu of some sort. Not full-on Android with all the other stuff that's already on my phone. Don't need or want two almost identical devices.
But no DAP maker will worsen their device due to your principles. There are a lot of advantages in having Android on a DAP so your lamenting will be unheard by the DAP makers.

There is no solution to your problem, we can help you understand the issue better in hope that you can accept it or give you alternatives, but non of use will take a soldering iron and make an Androidless DAP for you so your "question" is not pointing anywhere. Talk to the CEO of FiiO, not to us.

You do not have to touch any of the Android parts of any Andriod DAP. If you get an current walkman, you can just skip the Android setup on startup, start the walkman app and you will never see anything of Android.

The OS and the Walkman app have their own update service from Sony, other DAPs have the update service of their DAP maker, and you're done. As long you never reboot it, you will never notice it runs Android. So there is really not that much to complain about it if you don't want to use it.

The potential of having the features if you would want to use them is not reason enough for DAP makers to remove them.

Would you complain about an car having more than 60hp because you don't need it due to speed limits?
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 12:58 PM Post #54 of 69
Jul 29, 2023 at 1:13 PM Post #55 of 69
The iPod Toich runs iOS, like the iPhone.

The iPods with scroll wheels do not run iOS.
Oh you mean the iPod Classic? Those ran Pixo OS, an very old cellphone OS back from the Java age *ugh*.

But the Sound Quality of the iPod Classic is not good. But to be honest, the Sound Quality of no iPod ever was good. They were consumer devices from the time where smartphones have not yet replaced MP3 Players. They are completely unrelated to Hi-Res Audio DAPs

As you can see here

https://www.macintoshhowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/ipod.pdf

they are one of the worst music devices that ever existed. Every modern smarthone with an headphone jack easily outperforms every iPod with ease
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 3:43 PM Post #56 of 69
Here are the best sounding non-Android DAP I've heard:

1. Cayin N8.
2. Cowon Plenue 2.
3. Sony WM1A.
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 6:47 PM Post #57 of 69
What are your thoughts about a retrofitted iPod Classic? It is very hack-y but I think still viable.

I had mine retrofitted with a larger-capacity battery and an internal SD card reader. I didn’t opt for this - but you can use a custom firmware called Rockbox to change the UI and play more types of files than the stock firmware, and bypass iTunes.

I mention this because there is a very vibrant cottage industry of aftermarket parts for iPods, as well as modding shops.
I currently still have running two iPod Classics with original batteries though not yet on Rockbox. If they die and I can replace the batteries, I definitely will attempt the SD card retrofit over the old slow spinning hard drives as well as Rockbox. For the time being, they are on a portable speaker that charges them and I don't walk around with just the iPods so I don't really know their battery run-times. They are used exclusively at work so, if they get stolen, that's not a big deal.

I do have an old iRiver H340 that has a newer battery (one that's "easily" replaceable) and on Rockbox and it still sounds as good as it used to. It plays WAV so I can transfer HD audio to that as needed and the H340 stands up well to those files.

So, provided the right files, a still-running iPod is not a bad deal though I'd prefer a more modern DAP for the high quality stuff I've collected over the years.
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 7:02 PM Post #58 of 69
...... a lot of contrary opinions and responses that really don't have anything to do with the original question......
You are going way overboard here and making my simple question into a huge problem. I would ask you to re-read my original post and seriously ask yourself if that post is from someone who is angry, very upset or has written "an essay". Four small paragraphs are not "an essay" by any stretch.

You are the one who is saying my question is not simple. But it IS very simple and I'll quote it here so you can again relive all the anger and wordiness you seem to detect:

"So are there any really good non-Android DAPs out there and, if so, which ones are "best"?"

Since others have suggested solutions, brands and models, it seems to me there ARE simple answers to this very simple question. You are the one making it into more than it is. You are the one with the issues as you seem intent on negating my opinions and question based on your comfort level with all the DAPs out there and you feel the need to make your points even though they really don't have anything to do to help answer the question as others have.

So I suggest you stop trying to convince me my question has no merit and, if you have no suggested non-Android DAP that is very good, I would appreciate your discontinuing your longer-than-my-original-post responses and let those with some helpful suggestions reply instead. Thanks.
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 7:07 PM Post #59 of 69
Here are the best sounding non-Android DAP I've heard:

1. Cayin N8.
2. Cowon Plenue 2.
3. Sony WM1A.
I originally bought a Cayin N5 when they came out and was very happy with it but it broke only a couple weeks in and I had to return it. Cayin originally tried to tell me it was working fine but it was a mechanical failure with their click wheel and buttons which was obvious if you simply tried to use it. After a few goings back and forth they finally realized it was not user error but a failed solder joint somewhere and, though they offered to replace it, I opted for a refund instead. So they were nice enough to oblige. Otherwise, I'd probably still have that and still be asking my original question here!

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check them out.
 
Jul 29, 2023 at 7:23 PM Post #60 of 69
So, provided the right files, a still-running iPod is not a bad deal though I'd prefer a more modern DAP for the high quality stuff I've collected over the years.
This is not a snarky question: do you have the ears and hearing needed to be able to tell whether there’s distortion in your sources?

I realized a while back that I don’t. I’ve plugged my headphones into iPods of various makes, phones of various makes and other devices, and there was only one instance when the sound was crappy. It was from a no-name Android powered phone that sold for figurative pennies, and it was little wonder that the cellular modem died within a year. Beyond that, everything sounded good enough with no obvious distortion in my ears.

I share this simply to potentially give a simple solution. If your hearing is indeed sensitive enough, sincerely more power to you. Mine isn’t, so I’m happy to settle for an iPod that holds my entire library and maintains a charge for months. Besides, I use mine outside my home more than at home, so sound takes a hit anyway.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top