[gregorio]

I understand my point of view is a bit harsh when you factor in the business side but mastering engineers should educate their clients some more. I know one big name engineer who provide 2 masters...one properly mastered and one which is brickwalled and lets the client decide! What!!! The client, no surprise here, always prefers the brickwalled version. Why he even gives them a choice...I don't know. It's a long, difficult conversation but the main blame should be on the mastering engineers followed by the producer.

I don't think it's harsh, I'm with you on this. I've been trying to educate my clients since I got my first producing gig in '92. Most of the time they listen politely, then act as if the conversation never happened. Once I was asked who the hell I thought I was, compress the F'ing thing or "F" off, when I told him that was the mastering engineer's job he fired me on the spot! Only once has anyone ever really listened and then actually taken my advice when I was producing for them and that was Bjork. In 20 years I have never had any luck with the suits.

In Europe there are a lot of kids calling themselves mastering engineers who don't even know what a mastering engineer does, let alone have the slightest bit of skill at it. The main problem though is the consumer, they are the only ones who can really influence the suits. If some artists can make high fidelity and low compression fashionable and sell a boat load of recordings, the suits will jump on the band wagon and this loudness war could be over in months. But the kids just want slamming on their iPods, closer to a square wave the better and dynamic range is a pair of dirty words.

Audio post is far more sane, we've got some pretty strict rules on both peak and rms levels on program material and compression is generally used for compression rather than for slamming.

Good chatting and I like your list.

G

 

[LFF]

Quote:

In Europe there are a lot of kids calling themselves mastering engineers who don't even know what a mastering engineer does, let alone have the slightest bit of skill at it. The main problem though is the consumer, they are the only ones who can really influence the suits. If some artists can make high fidelity and low compression fashionable and sell a boat load of recordings, the suits will jump on the band wagon and this loudness war could be over in months. But the kids just want slamming on their iPods, closer to a square wave the better and dynamic range is a pair of dirty words.

Thanks for being with me on this and for liking the list. They are the ones I look for.
 
It's the same here. Lots and lots of kids (and some mediocre adults) calling themselves mastering engineers. They feel all they need is a laptop, some headphones and your local black market plug-ins and BAM!...you're a mastering engineer. At a recent get together I ran into one and he kept bragging about how busy he is and how much more spare change he has now when all he did was "just max out the volume to get them happy" and then turn around and charge them $150 per song. His reasoning was that if they are happy with the mix, then all he had to do was make in "bangin'" and that was it. I really had to restrain myself from punching him in the face. It's these little bastards that are making it so hard for people who actually know what they are doing. They also usually have no real point of reference as all they are accustomed to are synth's and loops and have never been to a concert hall. I'm often surprised how badly EQ'd some piano recordings are. Seems like most mastering engineers think that the piano is only a mid-range instrument.
 
Tell me if this isn't at least partially true:
 

 

 

[purrin]

     Quote:

 I'm often surprised how badly EQ'd some piano recordings are. Seems like most mastering engineers think that the piano is only a mid-range instrument.

LOL. That probably explains why I absolutely loved the GS1000/PS1000 for piano.
 

 

[Freeze]

I wish all labels would put as much effort into mastering the music to optimum sound characteristics as MFSL does with their mastering jobs.

 

[leng jai]

Why are film mixes in general still a pretty good standard? I mean most people would be using TV speakers and the standard of audio equipment at your local cinema isn't all that great.

 

[Freeze]

Actually some theaters do have special higher end speakers. Usually like 1 theater in the whole building will have it in some theaters.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

I wish all labels would put as much effort into mastering the music to optimum sound characteristics as MFSL does with their mastering jobs.

Even MFSL messes up some times. I will not buy an MFSL product until I actually hear it. Sometimes, they are good. Most of the time they a slight cut above the original pressing. Other times, they are just plain bad.
 
Here is a bad one IMHO:

 
It's so bright it can kill mosquitoes a mile away.

 
Quote:

Why are film mixes in general still a pretty good standard? I mean most people would be using TV speakers and the standard of audio equipment at your local cinema isn't all that great.

Because they actually have a standard. They mix and master everything to be played back at a calibrated level so it keeps a large amount of dynamic range and clarity.
 
 


Quote:

Actually some theaters do have special higher end speakers. Usually like 1 theater in the whole building will have it in some theaters.

All theaters have high end systems, some more than others but they are high end systems optimized for movies. If you have a home theater system, you know that just because it's great for movies, doesn't always mean it's great for music.
 

 

[khaos974]

Where did you get this?

Is it your personal remaster?

 

[LFF]

Read through the posts carefully and you'll have your answer.

 

[khaos974]

Did so and came to several possible conclusions, all of which with a very low level of certainty.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Did so and came to several possible conclusions, all of which with a very low level of certainty.

I see. It is not a remaster.

 

[CEE TEE]

Learning about the Loudness Wars was like learning about counter-steering bikes and motorcycles...whoa, dude.  

 
Nothing ever feels or sounds the same afterwards.

 

[CEE TEE]

Got a little help to add to your list:
 

1. Bob Ohlsson (freelance,  Motown in 60s, HoS in 90s)
2. Tommy Dorsey (Masterfonics Nashville)
3. Glenn Meadows (founder of Masterfonics, retired?)
4. Andrew Mendelson (Telarc)
5. Greg Reierson (RareForm)

Quote:

I have been saying this for years! Buy (re)masters done by engineers who know what they are doing and who give a **** about the actual music. Once again, here is a list of people I recommend going from best to worst (relatively speaking as they are all great):
 
Steve Hoffman
Alan Yoshida
Roy DuNann
Barry Diament
Kevin Gray
Joe Tarrantino
George Horn
Paul Stubblebine
George Massenburg
Keith O. Johnson
Bob Ludwig
Bob Katz
Larry Walsh
Doug Sax
 
If their name is associated with what you are buying, chances are it will be a cut above the rest of the compressed crap out there.
 
The only mastering engineer I avoid like the plague is Bob Norberg UNLESS is was produced by Ron Furmanek. That's proof right there, that the producer can have a major impact as well. I would also consider the purchase if Bill Inglot was involved.

 

[koolkat]

Hey,
 
Just a quick question here.
 
How do I "detect" the noise floor or noise level in recordings?
 
What does the noise floor sound like?
 
I'm listening to Trivium (down from the sky) right now and I'm hearing a little bit of white noise/static or something during the chorus.
 
Cymbals or noise floor?

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Hey,
 
Just a quick question here.
 
How do I "detect" the noise floor or noise level in recordings?
 
What does the noise floor sound like?
 
I'm listening to Trivium (down from the sky) right now and I'm hearing a little bit of white noise/static or something during the chorus.
 
Cymbals or noise floor?

I think what you are hearing is distortion.
 
Technically, the "noise floor" is the measure of the signal created from the sum of all the noise sources and unwanted signals within the system.
 
The most common noise is hiss. His is found around the 10,000 cycle region in the audio spectrum and some hiss is good, especially if it is an analog recording.
 
White noise is noise that has equal power across the entire frequency range (but due to how we hear, it sounds bright). Pink noise is noise whose power decreases 3 db per octave (produces the most natural‑sounding generated noise). Brown noise is noise whose power decreases by 6 db per octave (emphasizes low‑frequency components).