[ljnew]

   
Yeah. I can't believe that, underneath the W80's diminutive shell, lies 8 BA drivers. Disregarding the topic of sound for a moment, the W80 is an achievement in good product engineering. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison before (I should have done so), but I think the W80 may be even smaller in size than the W60.

 
 

   
 
Regarding EQ, you can certainly tweak the frequencies, and if you have access to Parametric EQ you can be very precise about the exact frequency and its bandwidth.  But certain things like transparency and resolution or soundstage expansion can't be tweaked with EQ. 

Viper4Android is the solution.

 

[ljnew]

  One of us should take one for the team and break the shell open to check it out...

Take 4 regular sized ba and cut them in half; then shave off the edges.  Viola, 8 drivers

 

[twister6]

  I've got a few theories why the Westone W80 isn't creating that much buzz at the moment ...
 
1) There's a lot more competition around than there was even 2 or 3 years ago.
 
2) Westone had quite a lot of problems with build quality, of cable connectors and face plates, on previous models. Previous experience, and word of mouth, matter. I've been a massive Westone fan boy for 10 years, but I have to admit my interest in new Westone products has waned in the last couple of years (after various issues with Um Pro 50 and W60). I did order some W80s but I returned them, after being underwhelmed. Westnoe IEMs usually sound great, they are small, and they are very comfortable, but they don't scream premium product IMHO.
 
3) The rapid inflation in the cost of TOPL universal IEMs is getting ridiculous (though, in fairess, this doesn't seem to stop other TOP universal IEMs creating some buzz).
 
4) Whether you believe in "more drivers always means better sound quality" or not, releasing a flag ship with 8 drivers just doesn't stand out from the crowd in the era of 10, 12 or 18 BA universal IEMs.
 
5)  This is purely conjecture on my part, but I think Westone may be more focused on cracking the Asian market, than US and European markets. It' seems to me that a very high proportion of Google results for "Westone W80" are coming from Asian websites, which suggests there has been a bigger PR push over their (either that, or Asian market is far better at picking up news of new product launches). I also noticed that the W80 has info, translated into three different Asian languages, prominently displayed on the new packaging. I don't remember this being the case with earlier models, but it suggests that the Asian market was very much on their minds when the packaging was developed.

 
I'll tell you this, maybe we don't have as many discussions in this thread, but when we do - it's always civilized and with a lot of respect to each others opinion

  When I see some other threads with "omg, it's the best thing ever" or "this is the biggest POS", or just nasty jabs thrown in each direction, I just roll my eyes and move on to the next thread.
 
With your point #5, I think you nailed it.  I'm trying to remember now, but one of the audio blogs/websites had a short interview with W80 from RMAF (don't remember if it was audio-head or parttimeaudiophile and if it was just one of the FB video "snapchat" streams).  But I clearly remember Westone mentioning about upcoming W80 release, and it's early availability in Asia and then the rest of the world.  As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure they even said they were completely sold out based on pre-orders from stores in Asian market.  So perhaps their flagship W60/W80 has a higher demand in there.
 
With more drivers theory, point #4, I don't think too many people buy into that anymore.  I enjoy 8-driver W80 as much as I do 14-driver Zeus XRA and 3-driver UERR or 1-driver VEGA.  I just don't look at them as how many drivers each one has, but rather about their sound signature (all these definitely DO NOT overlap), the resolution, their transparency, their soundstage, etc.  I think some people still have their mind stuck on a price of IEM and # of drivers, thinking you are getting a better price/driver value (I spoke to a few people who buy Chinese DIY iems with half a dozen of drivers for a few hundred dollars, awful sound, yet - they think they got a deal of a century).  Just my opinion, but I think many people are more educated now to look into the sound rather than driver count.  But at the same time, a slogan with "industry first #driver model" does generate a lot of publicity and hype.
 
Going up to #3, I think it's a problem, and not just because consumers willing to pay, but manufacturers keep pushing the price envelope.  But if you think about it, lets say you have 6-driver flagship that cost $1k.  If you release another 6-driver version, people will assume it's not a flagship but just a retuned version.  If you release 8-driver model and price it the same, people are going to question what's wrong with your product.  If the new flagship price difference is too high, now you have to justify why.  And so on.  I don't know how this business works or the cost and expected profit margins, but there is definitely a lot of marketing play and keeping up with competition in setting the price.
 
Yeah, there were issues (#2), and every time I read in the forum people saying "we called Westone, and they admitted about having issues and sending us replacement"  - I'm glad to hear that at least they were not in denial.  I deal with a lot of manufacturers due to writing reviews, so I go through different channels, that's why I rely on a forum feedback and reading other people's experiences.  Nothing is worse when manufacturer treats you like an idiot or in denial.  Based on what I have seen with cables and connectors in AM Pro and BT Cable as well as W80, they did stepped it up, but I have no idea what's going to happen after a continuous use.  That's why it's great to have a forum/community where you can read feedback shared by others.  Btw, I'm also curious why did you find W80 to be underwhelming?  I think we talked about it, just don't remember.  Was that because you expected a bigger difference in comparison to W60? Or something closer in sound to ES60?  I noticed that Ref8 cable takes a good 100hrs to burn in.  Out of the box my first impression was different from what I heard after the burn in.
 
And yeah, way too much competition (#1), and in some cases I don't even hear a night'n'day difference.  When I started doing reviews and was playing with budget IEMs, it was a lot more exciting going up the food chain ladder.  But when you hit TOTL level, you start looking for something else to set it apart.  The small size of W80 is one of those, I mean, it's ridiculously small for 8 drivers.  Or ADEL module in 64audio and now Empire Ears.  Plus, Ken is full of innovations with his impressive Campfire line.
 
I was actually thinking what would Westone should have done different about W80 to create more buzz.  Probably having a different shell material, like a metal one, would have been a huge plus.  I think today many people associate premium with either metal shells or exotic CIEM customization.  But then, I think that it would increase the size and the weight of the shell, and I look back at the current W80 as "innovation" because it remained the same lol!!!

 

[twister6]

 

  One of us should take one for the team and break the shell open to check it out...

Take 4 regular sized ba and cut them in half; then shave off the edges.  Viola, 8 drivers

 
I have seen some manufacturers mentioning dual BA driver while pointing to a regular BA "brick".  So, that makes me wonder if Westone is using some custom dual drivers like that.  That's the only feasible explanation?

 

[ljnew]

   
I have seen some manufacturers mentioning dual BA driver while pointing to a regular BA "brick".  So, that makes me wonder if Westone is using some custom dual drivers like that.  That's the only feasible explanation?

One thing i really like about the w80 is there's no hiss or noise at all.  But i'm not sure if that's the allo cable or not.
 
Also, i tried the w80 with the iphone 7 adapter and the bass is distorted, i think that's the adaptor because i have no problem on iphone 6 and lgv10.
 
With Viper4android/atmos and lgv10 i prefer the westone w50 and umpro50 sound sigs though.  
 
They sound completely different with this setup.  I tune both of them to make them brighter, more detailed and increase the soundstage and im way too happy with both of them!  I finally feel like my 25 hour a day 8 days a week search for better sound is over.
 
Well i hope......

 

[pacman46]

One thing i really like about the w80 is there's no hiss or noise at all.  But i'm not sure if that's the allo cable or not.

Also, i tried the w80 with the iphone 7 adapter and the bass is distorted, i think that's the adaptor because i have no problem on iphone 6 and lgv10.

With Viper4android/atmos and lgv10 i prefer the westone w50 and umpro50 sound sigs though.  

They sound completely different with this setup.  I tune both of them to make them brighter, more detailed and increase the soundstage and im way too happy with both of them!  I finally feel like my 25 hour a day 8 days a week search for better sound is over.

Well i hope......

how would you compare the w50 to the um50? I have the um50 to actually my Layla to be honest. I just find them very engaging and the more I listen the more I like them. I think it's the only Earphone that I didn't want to trade or sell after two Weeks lol

 

[ljnew]

how would you compare the w50 to the um50? I have the um50 to actually my Layla to be honest. I just find them very engaging and the more I listen the more I like them. I think it's the only Earphone that I didn't want to trade or sell after two Weeks lol

 
Well first you have to understand that I use Viper4android to tune them to my liking, therefore my experience is going to be different from everyone else.
 
I heard w50 by mistake after listening to w80 and I expected not to like the the w50 because:
 

• I too was underwhelmed by w80 especially after paying my own hard earned $1500.  I really believe the 8 driver thing is more of marketing vs real innovation.  To call the packaging or plastic iems a luxury or luxury feeling is an overstatement at best. I believe that's hogwash or snake oil but I digress.  I was expecting the w50 to be a huge downgrade
• I read mixed reviews on the w50 and heard they were muddy and too bassy, while others said they were awesome and very clear
• I usually don't like iems titled "made to play back prerecorded music"  I generally like flat iem and/or iem made for musicians like ath-e70 or um pro 50
• I heard the um pro 50 was a lot better; I thought this was true because to my ears the um pro 50 was my favorite.

 
However I'm really impressed with the w50!  I really liked them on the first try for level of detail, clarity and treble extension.
 
I'm still testing them but here's what i notice um pro 50 vs w50 :

• w50 has better more detailed treble extension (some might say colored)
• pro 50 mids and vocals are just smooth and ridiculously beautiful
• pro 50 louder although both get more than loud enough
• pro 50 less forgiving
• w50 very forgiving for bad tracks so much so that I feel guilty for listening to mp3 tracks with enjoyment.  (please don’t tell anyone I said that)
• Everyone says bass is better on um pro 50 but im not sure that’s true
• Um pro 50 mids are better
• When I listen to um pro 50 I find myself missing the treble on w50, but I find myself missing the smooth mids and vocals on the pro 50.

 
Not a clear winner to me… yet, they are both really good iems to my ears.

 

[twister6]

@ljnew : can you please let us know exactly what is your audio setting under V4A, especially the EQ?
 
I think we already had a discussion about W80 and your V4A setup, and afterwards I had a few people asking me why we hear it differently

  If I'm not mistaken, you are using a specific EQ setting and some dynamic and soundstage DSP settings under Viper4Android?  It would help people to correlate.  The problem is that when you describe the sound people assume you don't use any EQ or any other effects, and not everybody has your smartphone and many didn't install V4A ROM.
 
See, W50 is bassy and can make sound muddy (bass spilling into lower mids), but with a simple EQ adjustment you can make them sound nearly like W60.  But when you are describing their sound, you have to describe it as is, with all the effects disabled.  Otherwise people will get confused when someone hears it one way and others hear it a different way

  Nothing is wrong with using effects, whatever helps to make the sound more enjoyable.   But I just want to point out it would be helpful if when you are describing the sound or doing the comparison, to include your exact EQ setting or any other DSP sound effect settings.

 

[TCD1975]

  Btw, I'm also curious why did you find W80 to be underwhelming?  I think we talked about it, just don't remember.  Was that because you expected a bigger difference in comparison to W60? Or something closer in sound to ES60?  I noticed that Ref8 cable takes a good 100hrs to burn in.  Out of the box my first impression was different from what I heard after the burn in.

 
"Underwhelming" sounds a bit harsh on my part. It might sound like I'm saying they're not good, which isn't my intention. I just don't consider them £1,200 worth of good (and I've been arguing with myself if any IEM will be at that price).
 
I don't think the W80 justify a 50% price increase over the W60, or nearly three times the price of the UM Pro 50, which I personally think beats both the W60 and W80 in the bass department.
 
The "value" or "worth" of the W80 is completely subjective, and I respect other people's opinion if they think that the W80 justify the price. We each have are own ways of measuring whether something is good value or not. And to get eight drivers in to such a small, and ergonomic, earphone is a commendable achievement. But the W80 didn't sit within my comfort zone regarding the cost to performance ratio. 
 
Some of that was down to not feeling they were a big enough upgrade to the W60 (or UM Pro 50). But a MASSIVE part of my decision was the loose MMCX connectors. I may be completely wrong about this - only time will tell - but I suspect that we'll be reading reports of sound loss, or broken connectors, in about 5 or 6 months time.
 
Yes, Westone have good customer service and will replace them (in the event that they do have issues, which I admit is only conjecture on my part, so far). But I don't like the hassle of sending IEMs back to manufacturers, expensive international delivery, being without them for a period of time, and the chance that I'll have to pay a small fortune in import taxes when they are returned (in the UK we are charged 20%, plus handling fees, for warranty replacement items, returning to this country - so for the W80 that is potentially as much as £250, or roughly $320).
 
I fully admit that I didn't give the W80 much time, but my instinct was "I'm going to regret it if I don't return these and get a refund" and I haven't felt a single pang of regret since doing so.
 
I'll keep an eye out for future Westone products, as I like to stick with a brand if I feel they've delivered the goods in the past and I've REALLY enjoyed some of Westone's previous product over the past decade, but my eye has started to wander towards some of the competition.

 

[ljnew]

  @ljnew : can you please let us know exactly what is your audio setting under V4A, especially the EQ?
 
I think we already had a discussion about W80 and your V4A setup, and afterwards I had a few people asking me why we hear it differently

  If I'm not mistaken, you are using a specific EQ setting and some dynamic and soundstage DSP settings under Viper4Android?  It would help people to correlate.  The problem is that when you describe the sound people assume you don't use any EQ or any other effects, and not everybody has your smartphone and many didn't install V4A ROM.
 
See, W50 is bassy and can make sound muddy (bass spilling into lower mids), but with a simple EQ adjustment you can make them sound nearly like W60.  But when you are describing their sound, you have to describe it as is, with all the effects disabled.  Otherwise people will get confused when someone hears it one way and others hear it a different way

  Nothing is wrong with using effects, whatever helps to make the sound more enjoyable.   But I just want to point out it would be helpful if when you are describing the sound or doing the comparison, to include your exact EQ setting or any other DSP sound effect settings.

I understand, that's why I made the disclaimer about viper4android(V4a) in the first line.  However, I always listen without eq as well so I can hear what everyone else is hearing.  
Also, a good iem imho should never sound harsh even with eq.  Harshness doesn't necessarily add more detail it can just add pain.  So with the w50 and umpro 50 i can eq them and still hear the same amount of detail without harshness.  That's what makes them so great.
 
Yes, I can agree that the w50 might sound muddy to some without viper4android.  V4a is alot different than a regular eq, so if someone is using an eq that doesn't require root or system level access they will get different results.  
 
To me adding more drivers doesn't mean a whole lot for sound improvement but it almost always gives more chances for error and increases the price substantially.  To me the sweet spot for iem seems to be 3 to 5 drivers per ear.  Outside of that people are paying a premium for tuning that prob could be accomplished with something like v4a.  
 
Pics for v4a might not make a lot of sense because there are so many adjustments, there's no way we could look at the settings and get an understanding unless we install and listen to V4A because it's not just parametric eq.  However, I can still post pics later.
 
That being said, I believe that's why v4a goes so well with um pro 50 as it's made for musicians and im guessing musicians and producers would do alot more mixing and customizing sound.
 
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223

 

[twister6]

 

  @ljnew : can you please let us know exactly what is your audio setting under V4A, especially the EQ?
 
I think we already had a discussion about W80 and your V4A setup, and afterwards I had a few people asking me why we hear it differently

  If I'm not mistaken, you are using a specific EQ setting and some dynamic and soundstage DSP settings under Viper4Android?  It would help people to correlate.  The problem is that when you describe the sound people assume you don't use any EQ or any other effects, and not everybody has your smartphone and many didn't install V4A ROM.
 
See, W50 is bassy and can make sound muddy (bass spilling into lower mids), but with a simple EQ adjustment you can make them sound nearly like W60.  But when you are describing their sound, you have to describe it as is, with all the effects disabled.  Otherwise people will get confused when someone hears it one way and others hear it a different way

  Nothing is wrong with using effects, whatever helps to make the sound more enjoyable.   But I just want to point out it would be helpful if when you are describing the sound or doing the comparison, to include your exact EQ setting or any other DSP sound effect settings.

I understand, that's why I made the disclaimer about viper4android(V4a) in the first line.  However, I always listen without eq as well so I can hear what everyone else is hearing.  
Also, a good iem imho should never sound harsh even with eq.  Harshness doesn't necessarily add more detail it can just add pain.  So with the w50 and umpro 50 i can eq them and still hear the same amount of detail without harshness.  That's what makes them so great.
 
Yes, I can agree that the w50 might sound muddy to some without viper4android.  V4a is alot different than a regular eq, so if someone is using an eq that doesn't require root or system level access they will get different results.  
 
To me adding more drivers doesn't mean a whole lot for sound improvement but it almost always gives more chances for error and increases the price substantially.  To me the sweet spot for iem seems to be 3 to 5 drivers per ear.  Outside of that people are paying a premium for tuning that prob could be accomplished with something like v4a.  
 
Pics for v4a might not make a lot of sense because there are so many adjustments, there's no way we could look at the settings and get an understanding unless we install and listen to V4A because it's not just parametric eq.  However, I can still post pics later.
 
That being said, I believe that's why v4a goes so well with um pro 50 as it's made for musicians and im guessing musicians and producers would do alot more mixing and customizing sound.
 
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223

 
Oh, I gotcha!  Ever since my Note 4, I never found a need to root my phone cause I was able to optimize it and disable all the junk without rooting 

  But I did hear a lot of great comments about V4A.  You know, this almost reminds me of Cowon DAPs.  I recently reviewed Plenue M2 and felt their JetEffects were like "cheating" where by itself it sounds good, but man, once you dial in some of those DSP effects - it scales up the sound even of an average sounding IEMs to a whole new level.  And JetEffects doesn't sound artificial, but very natural.  And while I was taking review notes, I realized that I still had effects on, had to go back to disable it, and start all over again...
 
The whole Westone line is great for musicians, but more for listening or performing artists.  For mixing and critical monitoring, I would only use ES60, and even ES60 is not that flat.  When you produce/mix music, you want something flat and neutral.  Because if your headphones color the sound or boost parts of FR, you are going to adjust your EQ to compensate for that according to how you hear it which going to be misleading.  Personally, when I mix/pre-master the music, I use UERR.

 

[pacman46]

Well first you have to understand that I use Viper4android to tune them to my liking, therefore my experience is going to be different from everyone else.

I heard w50 by mistake after listening to w80 and I expected not to like the the w50 because:

1. I too was underwhelmed by w80 especially after paying my own hard earned $1500.  I really believe the 8 driver thing is more of marketing vs real innovation.  To call the packaging or plastic iems a luxury or luxury feeling is an overstatement at best. I believe that's hogwash or snake oil but I digress.  I was expecting the w50 to be a huge downgrade
2. I read mixed reviews on the w50 and heard they were muddy and too bassy, while others said they were awesome and very clear
3. I usually don't like iems titled "made to play back prerecorded music"  I generally like flat iem and/or iem made for musicians like ath-e70 or um pro 50
4. I heard the um pro 50 was a lot better; I thought this was true because to my ears the um pro 50 was my favorite.

However I'm really impressed with the w50!  I really liked them on the first try for level of detail, clarity and treble extension.

I'm still testing them but here's what i notice um pro 50 vs w50 :

1. w50 has better more detailed treble extension (some might say colored)
2. pro 50 mids and vocals are just smooth and ridiculously beautiful
3. pro 50 louder although both get more than loud enough
4. pro 50 less forgiving
5. w50 very forgiving for bad tracks so much so that I feel guilty for listening to mp3 tracks with enjoyment.  (please don’t tell anyone I said that)
6. Everyone says bass is better on um pro 50 but im not sure that’s true
7. Um pro 50 mids are better
8. When I listen to um pro 50 I find myself missing the treble on w50, but I find myself missing the smooth mids and vocals on the pro 50.

Not a clear winner to me… yet, they are both really good iems to my ears.

that is awesome thank you so much buddy..I have to try them.

 

[Koolpep]

Hi Guys!
 
3 things:
 
1) I tried the W80 recently for 15 minutes - so way to short to have any real opinion about them. First impressions: I liked them a lot. 2 years back I would have been in the OMG! Mind blown camp - but we are spoiled these days.... I was circling around the UmPro50 for a year now and still never bought them - I tried them twice from a friend and the treble like @ljnew mentioned before was just something I couldn't get my head entirely around - though a bit of EQ fixes that easily - still..... Anyhow the W80 don't have that issue they sound really good. Can't wait to spend some more time with them.
 
2) $1499 - but haptic impression is underwhelming - the size is amazing indeed and comfort is absolutely the best in universal IEMs so far. But somehow - it's a lot of money and the plastic build just feels too cheap....
 
3) A friend has the following issue with the ALO cable: it works fine in his Sony ZX2, Samsung S6 and elsewhere EXCEPT on his Samsung S7 Edge - it's dead silent. No sound playing at all. Has anyone the same experience? The cable works fine on other sources, the phone plays fine with other headphones and the stock cable of the W80 just not with the ALO cable...??
 
 
Cheers!

 

[kaushama]

I am planning to move from W60 to W80.

Fullcompass has them for reduced price. Are they reliable sellers?

 

[twister6]

I am planning to move from W60 to W80.

Fullcompass has them for reduced price. Are they reliable sellers?

 
I would contact Westone to inquire if Fullcompass is an official seller.  Reliable seller is important, but if you are not buying it from official reseller - Westone might not honor the warranty.