[M Coupe]

  i would like that, but im in the country a few hundred miles from a normal city

You could always demo from a shop with a good return policy.  If you were just casually interested, I would not suggest this but for somebody shopping hard it is a viable option.  PM me if you cannot find one.  Also, make sure you get the return policy in writing prior to ordering.
 
Good luck.

 

[tomscy2000]

  sure, but if an IEM has large missing chunks of audio from it it will sound worse than all other variables then same except a perception of equal loudness at all frequencies at the ear.
 
a great way to check a graph is with test tones keeping in mind equal loudness curve along with pink noise slope of speakers in a room.
 
then with well known reference material
 
this can show you how close or off the graph is with your own perception.
 
what i am using  has already surpassed the se846, and also very similar cuz i like the 846 its what we got my drummer

 
If you don't find wearing a backpack subwoofer and using resistive adapters (which will inject extra distortion and johnson noise into your signal chain) inconvenient, then I guess more power to you then. I tend to take on a compromise position; my reference is the UERM, which does a decent (not perfect) job of approximating an inverse C-weighting curve.

 

[Wilderbeast]

  Can you please give a bit more specific comparison between the W60 and the Roxanne? Particularly in imaging, separation and sound signature? Thanks!

 
JHA Roxanne / Westone W60 comparison
 
The first thing I realised when comparing these two wonderful earphones was how remarkably similar their sound signatures are. JAG87 said something similar a while back. A few times I reached to my ears to switch from the Roxanne to the W60 I was surprised to find the W60 already in place. The W60 makes a much bigger sound than its size suggests.
 
Both IEMs have a rich, thick tone, with the Roxanne being the brighter of the two. Roxanne also has more ‘air’, which seems strange to say, because compared to the JH13 or UM Miracle it has all the air of a vacuum jar. Volume wise, the W60 is a fraction quieter.
 
The Roxanne certainly sounds more ‘real’ to my ears. I listened to some solo piano music through the W60 that sounded like an excellent recoding of a piano. Though the Roxanne, however, it sounded like a piano. The Roxanne gives violins a lifelike ‘scratchy’ texture that the W60 does not. Likewise, the strum of a guitar - the nail or plectrum on the strings - is heard more clearly with the Roxanne than the W60. So, too, the words of vocals are easier to pick out with the Roxanne.
 
But this realism, this clarity, comes at a cost. The Roxanne, at times, can be a little harsh on the ears. Percussion especially can hit hard. This is not a criticism - it’s quite something to feel a drum inside your ear coming from an earpiece. There is no such harshness with the W60. The W60 offers as smooth a listening experience as I’ve heard. The W60 provides a softer, ’stuffier’, experience, like a foot has been placed on a piano’s damper pedal. It’s pleasant and pleasing, but some realism is lost. Imaging is more precise with the Roxanne, and separation is more, er, separate.
 
I would stress that the above differences are subtle. Both IEMs are warm, detailed and musical. You wouldn’t know you were missing out on detail with the W60 unless you had something like the Roxanne to directly compare it with.
 

A note on bass: The W60 is bassy. More so than I had realised. To reach W60’s level of bass output, the Roxanne’s bass dials must be turned up way past midway, which makes them sound off to me; the overall sound suffers. The W60 manages to be bassy yet balanced, to my ears at least. The deepest sub-bass is satisfyingly strong on the W60. 
 
Physically, they are very different, of course. The W60 is light and compact - perfect for travel. I’m a sucker for iPhone controls - when, like me, you commute each day on the London Underground there is no room to reach into your pocket to change track or volume. The Roxanne is saved, and savoured, when I’m home and have a couple of hours to relax and listen.
 

 

 

 

[JAG87]

   
JHA Roxanne / Westone W60 comparison

 
Thumbs up my friend. Isn't it amazing that W60 produces that sound from that small, plasticky, cheap-feeling enclosure? I'm still baffled when I look at them.
 
It's clear to me that the Roxanne has better response at extremely high frequencies, that's where the "air" and sound stage improvement comes from. But I find that the W60 is also not as peaky between 7 and 10Khz, which can sometimes be fatiguing on the Roxanne depending on the recording. but this perception could also just be exacerbated due to the fact that I have a tiny bit less of a seal with acrylic vs expanding foam on the W60. But like you said, the difference is very subtle, so subtle that if the volume is loud enough and my brain starts focusing on other things, I would have a hard time telling which is which.
 
One thing I don't exactly agree with though is to call W60 bassy. I mean it's not neutral by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't call it bassy. I'd say it's just right, somewhere around +2 or 3 dB north of neutral, which is what most people (who are not neutral-heads) seem to enjoy, at least judging by how popular the SE846's are. And to replicate that on Roxanne I don't need to go way past mid way. I'd say somewhere between 12 and 1pm. Just my 2c, as people reading your review might think that the W60 is a JH16 sound-alike, and that's definitely not the case.

 

[michael viscera]

 
What was your source? Sounds like you're using a source with high output impedance (e.g. OTL tube amps), which will make the Primo 8 very, very dark, very quickly. The Primo 8 needs a low output impedance source.

 
Let me get back to ya with the impedance of my sources, but source (impedance) dependent is another point against the Primo 8 imo.

 

[milford30]

   
Let me get back to ya with the impedance of my sources, but source (impedance) dependent is another point against the Primo 8 imo.

Primo 8 is rated at 38 ohms, se846 at 9 ohms. Primo 8 isn't that low impedance in terms of iems.

 

[Wilderbeast]

 
One thing I don't exactly agree with though is to call W60 bassy. I mean it's not neutral by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't call it bassy. I'd say it's just right, somewhere around +2 or 3 dB north of neutral, which is what most people (who are not neutral-heads) seem to enjoy, at least judging by how popular the SE846's are. And to replicate that on Roxanne I don't need to go way past mid way. I'd say somewhere between 12 and 1pm. Just my 2c, as people reading your review might think that the W60 is a JH16 sound-alike, and that's definitely not the case.

 
You're right to flag that up - my calling it bassy comes across as a criticism, but I really like the bass of the W60. Unlike with some earphones there is no need to strain to hear bass - it's full-bodied and prominent, though not overly so.

 

[JAG87]

   
You're right to flag that up - my calling it bassy comes across as a criticism, but I really like the bass of the W60. Unlike with some earphones there is no need to strain to hear bass - it's full-bodied and prominent, though not overly so.

 
For me, the W60's bass can be described as a guilty pleasure. You wouldn't dare have more or it would start to taint the rest of the spectrum. And while less would probably be technically more correct, you would start to miss it. Dare I say, for not being user adjustable in any way, Westone got it absolutely spot on.
 
 

  you lose 10khz the higher your source is more than a few ohms specifically with the primo 8.
 
here is a source with measurements of this.
 
http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2014/03/nuforce-primo-8-firstborn.html
 

 
Any device with OI less than 3 ohms (which is pretty much any portable device nowadays) will be fine with the Primo 8 and the W60. The same can't be said about the 846.

 

[MMJ2015]

1. [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/b2/100x100px-LS-b28bfc8e_20140127_214108000_iOS2.jpeg[/img]

JAG87
 
how is the w60 compared to the hd650 you had?

 

[Spyro]

  Just my 2c, as people reading your review might think that the W60 is a JH16 sound-alike, and that's definitely not the case.

 
Excactly.  JH16 is definitely bassier.  My guess is W50 would be closer to the JH16.  The difference between W50 and W60 is W60 incorporates 2 bass drivers (equivalent to two 8" speakers) where W50 only has 1 bass driver but it's a larger driver more like a 16" speaker.

 

[JAG87]

 
how is the w60 compared to the hd650 you had?
 

 
Apples and oranges really, even price wise. But I would take the W60 in a heart beat. IMO the W60/Roxanne are only bested by the LCD-X (I'm not really a fan of the LCD-3), and sound quality only because ergonomically, it is disgusting.
 
 

   
Excactly.  JH16 is definitely bassier.  My guess is W50 would be closer to the JH16.  The difference between W50 and W60 is W60 incorporates 2 bass drivers (equivalent to two 8" speakers) where W50 only has 1 bass driver but it's a larger driver more like a 16" speaker.
 

 
Can't comment on that because unfortunately I never heard the W50

 

[M Coupe]

For what it is worth, I find the SE846, HD650 and Audeze to be in the same general family.  While the w60 represents the  Audeze better at the top half, the SE846 does better and then some at the bottom.  I may be a N=1 but I think the W60 is superior to the HD650.  Same would be true for the sE846. imaging is different but not so much that I change my vote.  With the Audeze, that becomes a tougher call.

 

[Wilderbeast]

   
For me, the W60's bass can be described as a guilty pleasure. You wouldn't dare have more or it would start to taint the rest of the spectrum. And while less would probably be technically more correct, you would start to miss it. Dare I say, for not being user adjustable in any way, Westone got it absolutely spot on.
 

 
Well put. I agree entirely!

 

[MMJ2015]

 For what it is worth, I find the SE846, HD650 and Audeze to be in the same general family.  While the w60 represents the  Audeze better at the top half, the SE846 does better and then some at the bottom.  I may be a N=1 but I think the W60 is superior to the HD650.  Same would be true for the sE846. imaging is different but not so much that I change my vote.  With the Audeze, that becomes a tougher call.

the evidence of measurements of all but the w60 seem to support what you are saying (im not sure accurate measuremnts of w60 have been made if so i cannot find them yet)

 

[Spyro]

The W60 has the tight, full, articulate bass we all want but it includes an underlying "fullness" that undeniably makes it very alluring and euphoric.  Big full bass sound without any bloat or thump.