[Kagelou]

So the smoking hot super model is cheaper than the mildly looking nice and sweet girl?

 
Quote:

 
So here's what's going to make the ultimate difference:
 
- If you get the W4s, you get this mildly looking girl, who's very nice and sweet. But will you drool when you pass by hot girls you wish you could've had?
- If you get the CK10s, you'll get this smoking hot super model, but she can sometimes be high-maintenance and biatchy, sometimes.
 
Try both. Buy both. Sell both. Get something else. Upgrade. etc. Until your wallet's dry. 

 
 
 
 

 

 

[buffalowings]

Quote:

So the smoking hot super model is cheaper than the mildly looking nice and sweet girl?

 


 

well...she's a one night affair..if you know what i mean 

 

 

[Yggdrassilious]

That's cuz she's Asian. LOL jk jk. 
 
Quote:

So the smoking hot super model is cheaper than the mildly looking nice and sweet girl?

 


 

 

That's why you buy both..

Quote:

Heh, and what do they say? Date the hottie but marry the sensible one. 

EDIT: And I want the IEM which is Guinness to my filet mignon!

 


 

 

[Narwayo]

I have the same dilemma. I am there to buy CK-10, but I am unsure about this analytical interpretation of lack of bass. I am not a basshead, but this way to tell "lack of bass" means for me that they sound like a sound system with broken woofers. This would be ignoble to my ears.
 
Now my reference headphones are Beyerdynamic dt880/600 ohm, which a lot of people consider lackin in bass. For me their bass is perfect. the 990/770 bass is imperfect for my ears.
Whit tracks with a lot of bass they have a lot of bass. With tracks without bass they don't add anything. 
 
I am searching for the equivalent of dt880 in iem world. If the ck-10's bass would sound "anemic" like dt880 I would buy a pair of ck-10 now.

 

[Narwayo]

@Radi0head:
 
 how can you compare ck-10 to q-jays? and if you've ever heard, with the custom 3? I just know that the first ones could have the same sound signature, the custom 3 are instead specular to the first two. 
 
 thank you

 

[AngryBaconGod]

I have the same dilemma. I am there to buy CK-10, but I am unsure about this analytical interpretation of lack of bass. I am not a basshead, but this way to tell "lack of bass" means for me that they sound like a sound system with broken woofers. This would be ignoble to my ears.

I'm still as lost as when I started this thread. Except now I have a clarified sense of lost. You have pretty well nailed my difficulty.

Anyway, congrats for working "ignoble" into your post.

 

[Nachkebia]

love the bass on ck10, tight and controlled. in fact i love hiphop with ck10 :rolleyes:

 

[Alucrid]

Wow. Reading through this thread just solidified the want for CK-10s.

 

[AngryBaconGod]

So the smoking hot super model is cheaper than the mildly looking nice and sweet girl?

 


 

Presuming you marry the nice and sweet girl? Yes. By a long shot.

 

[Narwayo]

I haven't taken any decision right now. I know that its so subjective the experience of everyone of us, but in the case of CK-10 vs W4,....,....,.... the opinions are so different that it's difficult to make you an idea.
 
It's not like discuss about more or less bass energy, more or less harshness. It's like tell the one excludes the other one. Not like talking about the different shades of gray, but for one is gray and for another is black. My opinion after reading forums and reviews is that the ck-10 are clearly and objectively a non universal enjoyable iem. Not that the others aren't, but these more than others. their sound sig is so personal that any opinion is consequently personal. 
 
The impressions are so different in aspects, like "bright trebles vs harsh trebles" or "analytical vs balanced" or "anemic bass vs detailed and extended bass" that any opinion, taken alone, can make you change idea just when you are going to press the key to place the order. 
 
I am considering Q-jays and FA DBA-02 too. They cost about 80 pound less here in UK, should be a step under CK-10's but should have the same sound sig. So if you are not satisfied, you have at least saved 80 pound. 
 
But my consequent dilemma is that if I like this sound sig, I will regret not have bought one of the best of this sound signature. 
 
 

 

[RADI0HEAD]

@Radi0head:
 
 how can you compare ck-10 to q-jays? and if you've ever heard, with the custom 3? I just know that the first ones could have the same sound signature, the custom 3 are instead specular to the first two. 
 
 thank you

The q-JAYS are incredibly comfortable and tiny. Out of the iems in my signature they are the quickest to put in my ears and get a good fit/seal. If you are coming from say a sub $100 iem it should be quickly apparent that they are quite detailed. When I first tried the CK10 I was very disappointed. I could not get a good fit/seal so everything sounded harsh and bass was anemic. Once I was able to find a tip that gave me a good deep seal the difference was astonishing. The bass became apparent and the harshness became a non-issue. That tip for me is the Ety style triple flange. This tip is 1.5 millimeters smaller than the CK10 nozzle but it could be stretched to fit. It does an amazing job at taming the brightness to a point where it is non-existant. I think the people who say the CK is too thin or bright just simply didn't get a good deep seal because I don't hear any of that. The bass(kick drums) of the q-JAYS tickles my eardrum slightly more than the CK10 do. The treble response of the q-JAYS sounds a little harsher to me. Cymbal crashes sound cleaner on the CK10. The biggest fault I personally find with the q-JAYS, and it's not too big is how they represent vocals, singers sound a little too far back. I sometimes wish the vocals could be brought closer to the front of the stage. As far as build quality goes the CKs seem much more durable. The cabling of the q-JAYS is a little too noisy whereas the CK10 is stealth-like quiet. They are very good iems but to my ears the CK10 do more things right. These are my quick thoughts with my gear and my tip choices(which make a big difference to me). Your mileage and sound signature may vary.

Never heard the custom 3.

 

[Haonan]

I haven't seen graphs for either. Sadly manufacturers numbers are never more than marketing gibberish.

If it helps, I did saved CK10/CK100's FR graphs from Sonove's japanese blog on my computer previously so I have uploaded them for you, because sometime around Christmas last year through a japanese friend's kind gesture I came across a chance to purchase a new pair of CK100 for just 25,000 yen (approx. 310 USD), when brand new boxed ones in Japan (lowest retail according to Amazon Japan's prices) are still retailing typically for close to 33000 yen (approx. 410 USD) excluding of overseas shipping fees from Japan to Singapore. IMO it was a no-brainer question to me as I had a chance to audition the CK100 sometime back in Taiwan during one of my vacation trips there back in 2009 and was very infatuated by the magical and lush sound coming from this pair of IEMs, but ultimately I still had to do my own homework and contemplated really deeply on whether I should purchase the CK100, since back at that time I just bought the DBA-02 from Fischer Audio, and was pretty satisfied with its sound. (which has a rather similar and analytical sound presentation same as what the CK10 offers) Below the CK10/CK100's FR graphs are the Westone 4's graphs also taken from Sonove's blog, since he did wrote a blog entry about it earlier in March shortly after its domestic release in Japan. (for W4, red & blue lines are the L/R channels of Westone 4, grey line belongs to Etymotic ER-4P as Sonove is a fan of Etymotic Research IEMs, so he will always reference using them as a guideline against newer IEMs) AFAIK, Sonove's FR graphs can be reliably used as a form of reference guideline as it's has been brought up for talk discussion on many japanese BBS such as 2chan before, and from what I understand he does use proper microphones to record each individual IEMs for each respective frequency response test.

I can't really advise or comment on whether the Westone 4 or ATH-CK10 would be a better choice for your case, because as someone else had already mentioned on this thread, most of us hear things rather differently and we have our own subjective tastes when it comes to sound preferences, how one hears an IEM may not be exactly the same experience as what someone elses hears when it comes to the same model of phones. What I can only provide is my personal experience and sound perspective, on what I feel personally regarding the CK10 and also coming from someone who had owned the DBA-02 before (just sold them off not too long ago actually).

I can probably elaborate abit on both the CK10 and DBA-02. Both of them do share quite similar sound signature traits, but I won't say if they are similar enough to be considered twins separated at birth though. In my own words, CK10 probably has more subtle and able to reveal more micro-details than DBA-02, having more of that neutral response across the frequency range (in respect, I would say the CK10 is much more similar in genes when compare to phones like CK9/ER-4S/ER-4P if you would like a direct comparison from me) while the DBA-02 is a much more balanced phone that allows you to enjoy your music more, with more quantity of the lower-end response in regards to bass (the quantity amount is still no-where near dynamic-based IEMs like IE8/FX700 though) but definitely sufficient in my books, that makes it a much more pleasant IEM to enjoy if your music do showcase them such as R&B rap and hip hop genres, compared to the CK10 which has quite lean bass (but still tight and controlled in my books) or probably to some people, a rather lackluster quantity of the bass impact in order to be able to enjoy those genres that requires a considerable amount of bass in order to be enjoyable/listenable.

In terms of mids, both CK10 and DBA-02 have rather neutral and flat mids, terms of frequency response. They have this aggressive, Grado-ish, in your face upfront treble probably akin to phones like RE0, so if you hate this kind of forward mids sound signature, with an energetic crisp highs with treble spike then both phones are probably not your kind of IEM. In terms of upper-mids and highs, the CK10 was able to demonstrate a much more airy, clean and articulate in terms of the sound texture compared to DBA-02, but that's only according to my own pair of ears, as your mileage may vary. Both phones have quite an impressive transparency, instrumental separation and precision speed, probably only second next to phones like Etymotic Research's ER-4S/ER-4P, which still gets mentioned in some of the well-known reviews benchmarked by the regular contributors on this forum these days.

Does that make either one a better choice over the other? Not really in my books, both IEMs are actually very enjoyable choices according to my own ears, but the reason I went for Fischer Audio DBA-02 instead of the CK10, was because I was already using the CK9, and was surprised at how similar the CK9 and CK10 were in terms of sound signature upon listening, except for the difference in that CK10 has a much better ability in showcasing better imaging, instrumental separation and those refined highs in terms of treble, some of these features which the CK9 was quite lacking of when compared to its newer dual-driver BA successor. Also for the fact the DBA-02 was much cheaper to acquire in my country when I was looking at new phones to upgrade over my CK9 back last year, so the modest street price really helps when I was making my choice over the CK10. (even though I'm a self-professed Audio-technica fan myself)

Anyway regarding CK10's build quality, I would just like to touch on abit more regarding this matter. From my previous findings on Head-fi according to AwakenedBeing's review of both the CK10/CK100, both him and Happybuns did elaborate on some issues regarding CK10's poorer strain relief in comparison to CK100, also in the case of Happybun's scenario it seems that his own pair of CK10 did suffered from some exposed rubber sleeving on the strain reliefs near the housing shell, which seems to concide with some of the cabling build issues that I had read and came across on Kakaku.com, a popular japanese community BBS discussion forum. Not trying to say that this will definitely happen to your pair of CK10 should you go ahead and purchase it, but just something to ponder upon since from the time I had did my research on both the CK10/CK100, I had never came across any forum discussion or blog entries by japanese users regarding broken strain reliefs or cabling build issues on their CK100, but there was indeed more of such issues happening to the CK10, if you actually do a proper search around Head-fi though I suspect it's mainly due to the lack of a proper strain relief on the CK10, and as current owner of the CK100 I have to say it does have a better strain relief design compared to CK10, so probably just something to ponder about in case you are considering buying the ATH-CK10.

Can't really comment anything on the Westone 4, as the only Westone IEM I had personal experience with is the UM3X and as far as I know, sound signature is considered to be quite different from the Westone 3/4. (just like how in my personal perspective, I would say that CK10 and CK100 both in terms of sound signature are actual polar opposites of each other)

Cheers.

 

[Haonan]

I haven't taken any decision right now. I know that its so subjective the experience of everyone of us, but in the case of CK-10 vs W4,....,....,.... the opinions are so different that it's difficult to make you an idea.
 
It's not like discuss about more or less bass energy, more or less harshness. It's like tell the one excludes the other one. Not like talking about the different shades of gray, but for one is gray and for another is black. My opinion after reading forums and reviews is that the ck-10 are clearly and objectively a non universal enjoyable iem. Not that the others aren't, but these more than others. their sound sig is so personal that any opinion is consequently personal. 
 
The impressions are so different in aspects, like "bright trebles vs harsh trebles" or "analytical vs balanced" or "anemic bass vs detailed and extended bass" that any opinion, taken alone, can make you change idea just when you are going to press the key to place the order. 
 
I am considering Q-jays and FA DBA-02 too. They cost about 80 pound less here in UK, should be a step under CK-10's but should have the same sound sig. So if you are not satisfied, you have at least saved 80 pound. 
 
But my consequent dilemma is that if I like this sound sig, I will regret not have bought one of the best of this sound signature. 
 
 

Might wanna give Headfonia's review a read, as Mike did pitted the Fischer Audio DBA-02 against Jays Q-jays in his round-up comparison of dual-driver IEMs. In terms of technical aspect strength comparison and personal preference, although I have not yet heard the UE700 but in order of preference of the IEMs mentioned in his review, I did preferred the DBA-02 over the Q-jays personally myself.

 

[RADI0HEAD]

Great post Haonan.

You should post more often.

 

[AngryBaconGod]

Wow Haonan, that is an incredible post!

My deepest thanks for the graphs and your detailed analysis of how your ears perceive the CK10.

Both have been extremely helpful to me!



Those graphs tell me two things:

1. The W4 does indeed have some mid bass bloat. There's actually a resemblance between that graph and this graph:

(I own the IE8 (mid bass hump dialed down with EQ), so the W4 seems a bit too similar now).

2. The CK10 is just about the exact FR I am looking for



Again, awesome post!