[Deviltooth]

  Yea, Westone is undeniably a leader in the IEM market.
 
W3 was a breakthrough IEM as first 3 way crossover and the first BIG BASSY balanced armature IEM that also had really good clarity.
 
6 months later UM3X raised the bar again for musicians's stage monitors.  To this date...UM3X (now UMPro 30) still might be THE BEST dedicated universal stage monitor on the market.
 
Then a short 2 years ago Westone was the first company to come out with a quad-driver for true audiophiles.
All their products are great and well thought out (unlike a UE900 that is already discontinued) and maintain steady sales year after year. 
 
Their patented "star" tips was another breakthrough design in offering more clarity to their IEM's with a great fit.
 
When you get it right the first time you don't have to keep re-inventing the wheel.

So now that they've spearheaded a few innovations they should stop?
 
RE Macgirl: What's going on here?  You're quite the Westone apologist.  When I click on your ID the threads you're active on are mostly Westone related and you're busy defending and promoting them.  Do you have a connection with the company?

 

[Spyro]

I suspect sometime in 2014 they will come out with an ultra-high end universal to compete with SE846 but that's about it.
 
But it takes time.  W3 supposedly took 3 years to design/release.  I suspect there are surely products and ideas on the drawing board.  I mean I know they have staff engineers their full time.  I doubt they are twiddling their thumbs all day.

 

[Macgirl]

So now that they've spearheaded a few innovations they should stop?

RE Macgirl: What's going on here?  You're quite the Westone apologist.  When I click on your ID the threads you're active on are mostly Westone related and you're busy defending and promoting them.  Do you have a connection with the company?

LOL. No, I'm not an apologist, defender, promoter, nor one with a connection to Westone, other than someone who has bought & currently owns both the UM1 & UM2. I've been following the new threads to find out from folks who've bought the new stuff what's good & bad about them to see if upgrading would be worthwhile in the future. Sorry, guess you can't see what other threads I read but don't participate in, like 1964 stuff and JHA-5. One day I hope to give customs a try but since I don't have a huge amount of experience with those brands I don't have anything to add to the conversations.

 

[reddragon]

thanks to this thread, now i know es5 and es50 sound the same. no wonder there is no impression, let alone review about the es50 besides on the winter gift guide from jude

 

[cooperpwc]

 
So now that they've spearheaded a few innovations they should stop?
 
RE Macgirl: What's going on here?  You're quite the Westone apologist.  When I click on your ID the threads you're active on are mostly Westone related and you're busy defending and promoting them.  Do you have a connection with the company?

 
I think that you are getting a bit carried away. I won't accuse you of trolling yet but you certainly are trending. The accusation is rude and outrageous. 
 
People forget that headphones have just recently exploded as a commercial area. In the old days a good product had its life measured in years. Now products are continually replaced and 'improved' because the market will pay for new and 'better'. Personally I respect a company that does something well and then does not see the necessity of squeezing upgrades from its customers as a matter of ordinary business. That is my view.

 

[Deviltooth]

   
I think that you are getting a bit carried away. I won't accuse you of trolling yet but you certainly are trending. The accusation is rude and outrageous. 
 
People forget that headphones have just recently exploded as a commercial area. In the old days a good product had its life measured in years. Now products are continually replaced and 'improved' because the market will pay for new and 'better'. Personally I respect a company that does something well and then does not see the necessity of squeezing upgrades from its customers as a matter of ordinary business. That is my view.

I'm not trolling any more than you are.  Over the course of the past few months Westone has re-released it's entire C/IEM product line with small cosmetic changes and new names.  Often they have implied that these are new designs (I even asked on their Facebook page and was told that there was a change in sonic character); they have since admitted that none of the changes have been to the sound.  I believe that they've been purposely ambiguous so that the product line up appears new.  For me (and doubtless some others) this purposeful ambiguity is deceitful.
 
Please note the separate reviews of the ES5 and the ES50 in the Head-Fi gift guide.  Also reference the many new threads (such as this one) that have sprung up in the wake of Westone's announcements.
 
It's not important if their older product lineup is excellent, it's important that people know the changes made are to the cord the looks and nothing else.  Messages such as mine are posted to counter the confusion created by distasteful marketing.

 

[Mimouille]

I'm not trolling any more than you are.  Over the course of the past few months Westone has re-released it's entire C/IEM product line with small cosmetic changes and new names.  Often they have implied that these are new designs (I even asked on their Facebook page and was told that there was a change in sonic character); they have since admitted that none of the changes have been to the sound.  I believe that they've been purposely ambiguous so that the product line up appears new.  For me (and doubtless some others) this purposeful ambiguity is deceitful.

Please note the separate reviews of the ES5 and the ES50 in the Head-Fi gift guide.  Also reference the many new threads (such as this one) that have sprung up in the wake of Westone's announcements.

It's not important if their older product lineup is excellent, it's important that people know the changes made are to the cord the looks and nothing else.  Messages such as mine are posted to counter the confusion created by distasteful marketing.

Yep I agree, I find Westone to be very lazy in innovation lately and purposefully ambiguous in marketing.

 

[Spyro]

 
-
 
It's not important if their older product lineup is excellent, it's important that people know the changes made are to the cord the looks and nothing else.  Messages such as mine are posted to counter the confusion created by distasteful marketing.

 
Again.....they have been very up front and honest never saying "bigger and better".  Just a face lift.  There should be no confusion whatsoever.  At this level of product people should be astute enough to understand year to year changes.
 
I guess in your mind they should have just raised the costs 30% with zero changes,,,exact same product.  That would have eased any confusion and they could claim rising overhead costs like everyone else does.
 
While I haven't seen a new version up close the new cable design, sleeker looking housing and upgraded tip selection as absolute genious marketing by Westone.  No one likes to pay more but they are at least enhancing the product a bit.

 

[Deviltooth]

   
Again.....they have been very up front and honest never saying "bigger and better".  Just a face lift.  There should be no confusion whatsoever.  At this level of product people should be astute enough to understand year to year changes.
 
I guess in your mind they should have just raised the costs 30% with zero changes,,,exact same product.  That would have eased any confusion and they could claim rising overhead costs like everyone else does.
 
While I haven't seen a new version up close the new cable design, sleeker looking housing and upgraded tip selection as absolute genious marketing by Westone.  No one likes to pay more but they are at least enhancing the product a bit.

If they were just 'enhancing the product' they'd have no need to change the name/model designation or they would do so in the same way they denoted the difference between the Westone 4 and 4R.  The current releases have been treated like new products so once again I will reiterate proof in the hope that if you see it a second time you might actually read what I've typed.
 
Evidence: Please note the separate reviews of the ES5 and the ES50 in the Head-Fi gift guide.  Also reference the many new threads (such as this one) that have sprung up in the wake of Westone's announcements.
 
At no point did I say they should raise the price 30% and I have no idea where you got this ridiculous idea.  Please don't imply I've said something that I have not.  Aside from your sentence being patently false you also state that a price increase would 'have eased confusion'.  Sorry, I don't follow the logic here.

 

[rawrster]

Yes that's the part that bothers me. If everything is cosmetic there's no need for a new name. In fact I thought this was a new product until jude linked their press release.

 

[Spyro]

 
If they were just 'enhancing the product' they'd have no need to change the name/model designation or they would do so in the same way they denoted the difference between the Westone 4 and 4R.  The current releases have been treated like new products so once again I will reiterate proof in the hope that if you see it a second time you might actually read what I've typed.
 
Evidence: Please note the separate reviews of the ES5 and the ES50 in the Head-Fi gift guide.  Also reference the many new threads (such as this one) that have sprung up in the wake of Westone's announcements.
 
At no point did I say they should raise the price 30% and I have no idea where you got this ridiculous idea.  Please don't imply I've said something that I have not.  Aside from your sentence being patently false you also state that a price increase would 'have eased confusion'.  Sorry, I don't follow the logic here.

 
What does Westone have to do with Head-Fi putting reviews of both ES5 and ES50 in the gift guide? They are probably scratching their heads too if they saw that.  Sounds like somebody jumping the gun before they knew what the hell they were doing (or reviewing).     How about at least comparing identical specs?  Is it that hard?   LOL....Go figure.....
 
W4 and W4R are identical everything in every regard except the cable connection area, period, where a W3 and a W30 have completely different housings, completely different cables and a different cable connection technology.  Of course it's a different model #.
 
Quality control 101:  You must have a revision or new model number to a new product otherwise you will have a lot control nightmare on their hands.
 
You're just pissed off because they cost more but sound the same and I am trying to point out other than the sound they ARE completely different products.  
 
 I'm thankful that Westone has NOT stated any sound enhancements and that I can easily see the newer versions are the same specs so I will simply pass on purchasing any of these and wait for the next new sounding product but some people are too dumb to realize this.  Anyone that would deduce that the new one's sound different on their own is a moron.   Just don't buy it!  Westone surely is not trying to "fool" people to buying a W3 and a W30.  They want new buyers that DON'T have W3 to buy the newer version W30 that has more up to date cabling and ergonomics.
 
Your logic would state that if Logitech came up with a TF10 (exact same drivers and spec) but with a different cable and better form fitting housing (maybe like UE900) and called it TF100....would you really be ticked off and say the same things you saying about Westone?  I doubt it.... 

 

[Sinocelt]

Their marketing is indeed ambiguous. It certainly endeavors not to make it clear that the changes are only cosmetic.

 

[buihia]

Kunlun (or anyone), did u managed to get a word from westone if the new um pro 50 or westone w50 is the universal version of es5 or es50?

 

[buihia]

in case anyone is interested
 
a reply from westone's rep
 
Thanks for your email.  The UM Pro 50 is the universal option for the ES50.  They will be the same 5 driver design, just a different configuration for a universal application.  The W50 is designed to reproduce frequencies of pre recorded music, not live sound like the ES50/UM Pro 50. Please let us know if you have any further questions. Thanks!

 

[Spyro]

Regardless of differences,  like UM3X/UMPro30....they must sound damn near identical. This is not a big deal.  So you can buy UMPro 50 for $200 less than ES5 but it's not custom fit but you have re-sale value.
 
Yawn........
 
If you do NOT have fit issues with universals, always go with universals.  One exception would be my dual driver JH5's.   Terrific for the price and have equal sound quality as most triple and quad drivers.
 
For anyone wondering.....JH5 is a UM3X with less instrument separation but brighter and rawer (less refined) presentation.   JH5 rocks as intro to customs that wont break the budget.  Crushes every other dual driver I have heard.