[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me the improvement was considerable. Although the sound signature is similar, the degree of clarity and the ability to separate each instrument are clearly better. I enjoy listening to a piece listening to each instrument or voice one at a time and the ES3X makes it easy to do. Currently listening to Bach's Missa Brevis BWV 234: I can follow the sopranos, contralto, tenor and bass, as well as the organ, flute strings and bass quite easily. Extremely enjoyable. While the UM3X allows it also, I did not find it as clear. Not sure if that helped, but is the best explanation I could come up at this time. The UM3x is also an excellent choice, though not quite at the same level. Music however did not find the difference as significant as I did.

True, and perhaps this is to do with the type of tips I use (soft grey silicone ones) which don't come stock with the UM3X, but they do with the W3 (and SE530). Had I been using the stock Comply tips, then the difference would've been much more significant, and I'd be one of those saying that the ES3X is in a completely different league both in comfort and SQ.

But then again, there might be others using the same tips as me and still reporting much better SQ & comfort on the ES3X. So many variables to take into account, and the use of language being one of those - how we describe things, ie what others might consider 'huge/ massive/ tremendous' I might regard simply as big/ large; some might say this or that aspect is considerably bigger/ better/ wider, I might say it's bigger/ better/ wider but not significantly so.

 

[gilency]

deleted.

 

[pila405]

Very intresting....look at this:

 

[Zuglufttier]

Well, what's that supposed to be?

 

[pila405]

Frequency response graph of es3x,ue-11 and w3.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very intresting....look at this:

Very interesting indeed. Where did you get this from, Pila? I wonder how accurate it is?

 

[pila405]

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If anyone can translate...

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Interesting find Pila405. This FR plot might help explain some of the differences in SQ between these high-end IEMs.

Using the plots as a reference, on the ES3X, from about 2K down, the frequency response curve looks like it came from a good amplifier! Very impressive! It looks like you can see the crossover points (dips), ~2.7K for the midrange and 10K for the tweeter. There would be some averaging through the transitions, but the dips should be readily apparent listening to a sweep. Based on these curves the ES3X should sound a bit warm, but very even throughout the midrange.

The UE11 would sound fat in the low end, but extended. It's a bit surprising to see the rise in FR starting at 1K, peaking between 40Hz - 50Hz, and still pretty strong at 100Hz. Bass would sound (over?) prominent, especially with the stringed bass, electric bass, kick-drum, bass drum (orchestra), large gong, etc. The emphasis at 100Hz in loudspeaker design gives the impression of an extended bass response, especially in smaller speakers and monitors. The upper midrange and treble regions on the UE11's should make the sound seem more"forward," at least compared to the ES3X. Depending on the driver, it may sound a bit "edgy," but I don't see those types of descriptors in the reviews and comparisons. Triangles, cymbals, etc. would be more prominent than the ES3X.

It's interesting to me that some folks think the ES3X's midrange is emphasized. I don't hear that on my own ES3X, and the curves here support that they are pretty darn flat. "The average spectrum of the orchestra peaks around 400Hz to 500Hz, and then decreases with increasing frequency. The mean spectral level at 2.5kHz to 3kHz is already about 20dB below the peak. And, of course, the lower midrange is rich in fundamentals and their first overtones. In particular, the range of 262Hz to 330Hz (C4 to E4) is common to all voices. In my book, if a component can't get it right in the midrange, frequency extension, imaging, etc., matter very little. The midrange, to my mind, is literally the heart of the matter." (Quote from Dick Olsher, Enjoy the Music in his review of the Ah! Super Tjoeb)

The ultra-flat response of the ES3X in the mid-band (e.g. 20Hz - 2KHz, especially 262Hz - 330Hz) contributes to its rich sound, especially with vocals.

I don't think everything is explained by these curves. It's curious to me that HPA thought the treble on the ES3X was initially bright compared to the UE11PRO and JH13PRO (not represented in these curves). The curves for the ES3X (blue curve) show a depressed treble region. "The forward treble can make the ES3X sound a little bright when initially switching over to them from one of the other IEM, but if the ES3X are the first IEM you put in your ears the treble sounds just fine." (Quoted from HPA's Flagship Review.) I'm assuming that HPA was listening to the brighter sounding amplifiers when he noted this effect: "The best portable amps for the ES3X in order of preference were the Amphora, P-51, Predator, stock D10 or D10 with AD8656/bypassed buffers. Then came the EF2. With the Pico, XM5 with AD8065/BUF634, and D10 AD744/EL8201 the sound is very enjoyable but occasionally just a tiny bit bright, especially when switching from listening to one of the other custom IEM while using these amps."

I would have assumed that the UE11PRO and JH13PRO were more similar in the treble regions. From the curves, the UE11Pro should sound more prominent in the treble region than the ES3X. And JH has probably learned a lot since his days at UE. The multiple drivers would have a smoothing effect in the treble region, which should translate to improved detail and maybe resolution. I'm guessing here, but the treble curves should look flatter due to averaging the differences in the drivers, compared with the ES3X.

Interesting.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think everything is explained by these curves. It's curious to me that HPA thought the treble on the ES3X was initially bright compared to the UE11PRO and JH13PRO (not represented in these curves). The curves for the ES3X (blue curve) show a depressed treble region. "The forward treble can make the ES3X sound a little bright when initially switching over to them from one of the other IEM, but if the ES3X are the first IEM you put in your ears the treble sounds just fine." (Quoted from HPA's Flagship Review.) I'm assuming that HPA was listening to the brighter sounding amplifiers when he noted this effect: "The best portable amps for the ES3X in order of preference were the Amphora, P-51, Predator, stock D10 or D10 with AD8656/bypassed buffers. Then came the EF2. With the Pico, XM5 with AD8065/BUF634, and D10 AD744/EL8201 the sound is very enjoyable but occasionally just a tiny bit bright, especially when switching from listening to one of the other custom IEM while using these amps." I would have assumed that the UE11PRO and JH13PRO were more similar in the treble regions. From the curves, the UE11Pro should sound more prominent in the treble region than the ES3X. And JH has probably learned a lot since his days at UE. The multiple drivers would have a smoothing effect in the treble region, which should translate to improved detail and maybe resolution. I'm guessing here, but the treble curves should look flatter due to averaging the differences in the drivers, compared with the ES3X. Interesting.

I'm not sure I believe the curves are totally correct.

 

[klatzz]

got my ES3x back from westone....

Filter on the right side changed..

bad news..the right is still not as lively as the left..i am so tired trying to get things right..pun not intended..

any suggestions guys?

 

[gilency]

mmhhh...... if they can not fix it, can you get your money back?
Or ask them to replace all the transducers in the right side, basically to make a completely new right side?

 

[pila405]

There are two options:
1. You are just too perfectionist and expect for too much.
2. Something is going realy wrong with Westone.

So, ask them to make NEW set out of nothing. Just new one. If it won't work than ask your money back.


**Maybe you have liquids in the inner right ear, so everything sounds duller. Or you have wax. Or maybe you just don't put the IEM right?

 

[klatzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are two options: 1. You are just too perfectionist and expect for too much. 2. Something is going realy wrong with Westone. So, ask them to make NEW set out of nothing. Just new one. If it won't work than ask your money back. **Maybe you have liquids in the inner right ear, so everything sounds duller. Or you have wax. Or maybe you just don't put the IEM right?

i do not think i am expecting too much, isnt the left and the right suppose to be on par? mine is not even close. and i know how good they sound when it first came.maybe i should not have send it back for the ringing sound. sigh.

liquid i need to go to a doctor rite? i can go check to make sure its not my ears.but i doubt so. my other westone 3 sounds balance....

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by klatzz /img/forum/go_quote.gif got my ES3x back from westone.... Filter on the right side changed.. bad news..the right is still not as lively as the left..i am so tired trying to get things right..pun not intended.. any suggestions guys?

If you know for a fact the problem does not come directly from you (e.g. ear-wax build up, etc), then I strongly suggest you get a refund at this stage.

 

[klatzz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you know for a fact the problem does not come directly from you (e.g. ear-wax build up, etc), then I strongly suggest you get a refund at this stage.

is a total refund possible?

in any case that doesnt solve my problem, I need a good and comfortable customs and I know westone can definitely provide that. I would still prefer to solve it by getting it properly repaired.