[HeadphoneAddict]

Still amazed...

 

[rubytuesday007]

Hey HPA, got a question....I read that you are using the ES3X with the Predator amp. True? If so, what gain setting do you have it set at?


Thanks!

Ruby

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubytuesday007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey HPA, got a question....I read that you are using the ES3X with the Predator amp. True? If so, what gain setting do you have it set at? Thanks! Ruby

I always use Predator in Low gain with IEM.

 

[berthoud]

Perhaps this is not the best place to ask but as I cannot find my anwser in a search, and this is the thread that has garnered my interest so why not?

Do these custom IEM's (in particular, the ES3x) yield the same listening experience that a high quality circumaural provides with all else being equal?

I've got Er4p's and HD 650's. I enjoy them both for different reason and would love to blend the musical qualities of each together for a portable, ultra comfortable, perfect sounding rig but am concerned that the custom will still only provide an IEM expierence musically. The Ety's just sound anemic (although outstanding mids, highs and stage) and do not have as much of a presence as the HD650's do when using the same amp and source. Beyond that they are less comfortable for me than the 650's (which alone are not perfect). Ultimately, I find it easier to get lost in the music with the HD650's but find them abit too veiled and dark for my liking. Perhaps it is the vibrations on my outer ear and skull that lend to this perception but I've not experienced any other IEM...

So would I find success in the ES3X? Thanks all...

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by berthoud /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps this is not the best place to ask but as I cannot find my anwser in a search, and this is the thread that has garnered my interest so why not? Do these custome IEM's (in particular, the ES3x) yield the same listening experience that a high quality circumaural provides with all else being equal? I've got Er4p's and HD 650's. I enjoy them both for different reason and would love to blend the musical qualities of each together for a portable, ultra comfortable, perfect sounding rig but am concerned that the custom will still only provide an IEM expierence musically. The Ety's just sound anemic (although outstanding mids, highs and stage) and do not have as much of a presence as the HD650's do when using the same amp and source. Beyond that they are less comfortable for me than the 650's (which alone are not perfect). Ultimately, I find it easier to get lost in the music with the HD650's but find them abit too veiled and dark for my liking. Perhaps it is the vibrations on my outer ear and skull that lend to this perception but I've not experienced any other IEM... So would I find success in the ES3X? Thanks all...

This has been stated earlier in the thread. The ES3X have great imaging, presence and immersion in the music, and while the soundstage is not as great as a full size circumaural can it is better than any IEM I have tried before. To the extent that I am not missing anything, nor find it lacking in any way. In the big UE-10 vs ES3X thread there is some great discussion about soundstage and imaging and how they mesh with these high-end customs.

 

[berthoud]

Thanks Larry,

I found this in the other thread, which I've followed as well:

The 'natural' sound of the ES3x as Headphone Addict mentions is absolutely captivating. The musicians sound like there are there in the room with you, playing for you vs .listening to a recording. The imaging is almost holographic in its presentation, with a very 3D effect to the sound. The weight of the sound and each of its images is also spot on. It also has a wonderful sense of space, soundstaging and emotion that comes across in its presentation.

Perhaps it's my ignorance but the above paragraph paints an awesome picture of a large soundstage which I've thought was uncharacteristic of any IEM.

Just trying to understand in words what is being felt in the music with these particular IEM's. Perhaps I am reading too far into it .

BTW, have you tried other amps/DACS with the ES3X beyond the D10?

Thanks!

Scott

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by berthoud /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Larry, I found this in the other thread, which I've followed as well: The 'natural' sound of the ES3x as Headphone Addict mentions is absolutely captivating. The musicians sound like there are there in the room with you, playing for you vs listening to a recording. The imaging is almost holographic in its presentation, with a very 3D effect to the sound. The weight of the sound and each of its images is also spot on. It also has a wonderful sense of space, soundstaging and emotion that comes across in its presentation. Perhaps it's my ignorance but the above paragraph paints an awesome picture of a large soundstage which I've thought was uncharacteristic of any IEM. Just trying to understand in words what is being felt in the music with these particular IEM's. Perhaps I am reading too far into it . BTW, have you tried other amps/DACS with the ES3X beyond the D10? Thanks! Scott

You are reading too far into it.

There are a lot of characteristics of the sound that we are looking for in order for our headphones to give us the illusion of being there - transparency and natural timbre and tone, detail, precise imaging in the headstage and soundstage, ambience, space, speedy and accurate transient response for attack and natural decay, and more.

What he says in the quote you posted is true, and I experience that too. But if you've heard a $6000 Stax O2 rig, or a K1000 properly amplified you'll understand what I mean about soundstage of full size cans. The ES3X come closer than any IEM I have tried, and have the best soundstage of any IEM I have tried, so I am not sure where the problem is.

The transparency, immaculate imaging and holographic presentation with presence and space for each instrument is there with the ES3X, but soundstage is a little different without the pinna of the ear catching the sound coming from outside the ear (except for binaural recordings). Very few of my full size headphones have ever done this as well as the ES3X. The ES3X will do the "imaging, headstage, soundstage and instrument placement, timbre, tone, speed, detail", and all the rest as well as it needs to be done to complete the illusion. No worries there.

Now I shall speak blasphemy, or heresy or whatever you call it at head-fi. I will also say that very few headphones can replicate the soundstage and imaging of a good speaker system, and very few will argue with me about that. A few will come close but nothing matches it. There are just certain things that we can't change (until we all have a Smythe Virtual Surround Technology box in our rig) . With my Polk SDA CRS speakers I get the band in front of me, and sound going out behind the front wall and outside of the side walls if the recording is done properly, with all the ambience cues and echos of the venue. There is almost no headstage, just soundstage. If you want better than the ES3X soundstage, get a speaker rig.

However, these days the speaker rig's cost goes up exponentially higher to achieve the same natural timbre and tone and detail and transparency of a good affordable headphone system. I can't buy a $60,000 speaker system (including room treatments) and dedicate a room to it, but I can afford a good headphone system that beats it in all areas except soundstage for 1/10 the cost. And even then my ES3X on a $300 portable DAC/amp and laptop with lossless music is so close it makes the $6,000 headphone rig seem like a total waste of money.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

One other thing I want to stress - no matter how hard I try when listening to music, I cannot hear the sound coming from the ES3X in my ears - the drivers are totally transparent and the sound comes from anywhere except from inside my ears.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif One other thing I want to stress - no matter how hard I try when listening to music, I cannot hear the sound coming from the ES3X in my ears - the drivers are totally transparent and the sound comes from anywhere except from inside my ears.

This is a very interesting and pertinent observation. My question to you then would be, where does the sound come from? Does the music sound like it is coming from outside your ears or from in your head?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a very interesting and pertinent observation. My question to you then would be, where does the sound come from? Does the music sound like it is coming from outside your ears or from in your head?

A mix of both.

 

[Deadneddz]

Although i've not heard the ES3X, I do own the UE-11s. My impressions of the UE-11s are very similar to HPAs when he describes his experience with the ES3X's. When i listen to the UE-11s the sound is quite captivating. Its headstage is mysterious in that im also unable to localize sound when listening to them. However i do believe its the combination of its transparency and dynamics, along with the fact that it does not incorporate the pinna.

However, although its soundstage is so impressively articulate and precise, its not the same feeling i get when listening to highend full size rigs, only as far as soundstage is concerned. There is a caveat though.

Most of my impressions left me baffled as to why many fairly expensive full size rigs (headphones and speakers) did not give me the sheer involvment in music as the UE-11s do. Its simply the fact that when introducing the pinna, the transducer now has the task of eliminating the fact that your ear can now better localize the headstage. This is somthing that i've found to be almost impossible to ignore with headphones. I don't get the visceral and emotional feeling of music when i can clearly hear the sound coming from an inch away from each ear, even if its so incredibly slight. Its just not natural.

Not until listening to a very small group of highend, mostly electrostatic based rigs, did i find out that headphones can be so dynamic and precise that it can actually incorporate the pinna, but trick you into only hearing the soundstage. At this point the pinna cannot localize the sound anymore, just like the UE-11s(or HPA's description of the ES3X's), but now have more headstage room to fill with sound. Speakers are different in that they are much farther away than any headphone is, which is imo the reason why they can give sound such realistic space, since the headstage they project is literally moving through larger spaces, which our ears can process as actual space that music is travelling in. However like headphones, they still need to trick the pinna into not being able to directly localize the sound. This is of course possible with high quality gear as always.

berthoud, i don't think the ESW3's are what your looking for. It seems like you need a high quality speaker rig.

High end custom IEMs, like the UE-11s shine at producing rock solid imaging, dynamics and transparency, but its soundstage will not be the same as full size rigs or speakers. Its amazing quality at a smaller scale. This something you must understand to appreciate them.

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are reading too far into it. There are a lot of characteristics of the sound that we are looking for in order for our headphones to give us the illusion of being there - transparency and natural timbre and tone, detail, precise imaging in the headstage and soundstage, ambience, space, speedy and accurate transient response for attack and natural decay, and more. What he says in the quote you posted is true, and I experience that too. But if you've heard a $6000 Stax O2 rig, or a K1000 properly amplified you'll understand what I mean about soundstage of full size cans. The ES3X come closer than any IEM I have tried, and have the best soundstage of any IEM I have tried, so I am not sure where the problem is. The transparency, immaculate imaging and holographic presentation with presence and space for each instrument is there with the ES3X, but soundstage is a little different without the pinna of the ear catching the sound coming from outside the ear (except for binaural recordings). Very few of my full size headphones have ever done this as well as the ES3X. The ES3X will do the "imaging, headstage, soundstage and instrument placement, timbre, tone, speed, detail", and all the rest as well as it needs to be done to complete the illusion. No worries there. Now I shall speak blasphemy, or heresy or whatever you call it at head-fi. I will also say that very few headphones can replicate the soundstage and imaging of a good speaker system, and very few will argue with me about that. A few will come close but nothing matches it. There are just certain things that we can't change (until we all have a Smythe Virtual Surround Technology box in our rig) . With my Polk SDA CRS speakers I get the band in front of me, and sound going out behind the front wall and outside of the side walls if the recording is done properly, with all the ambience cues and echos of the venue. There is almost no headstage, just soundstage. If you want better than the ES3X soundstage, get a speaker rig. However, these days the speaker rig's cost goes up exponentially higher to achieve the same natural timbre and tone and detail and transparency of a good affordable headphone system. I can't buy a $60,000 speaker system (including room treatments) and dedicate a room to it, but I can afford a good headphone system that beats it in all areas except soundstage for 1/10 the cost. And even then my ES3X on a $300 portable DAC/amp and laptop with lossless music is so close it makes the $6,000 headphone rig seem like a total waste of money.

Such a great post. Kudos to you. You really have a way with words.

One other point I think contibutes to the custom IEM experience in a way no other headphone type can is the immersion in the sound due to the isolation created by the IEM.

Blocking out 22db of sound (approximately) creates your own unique space in which to listen to music. It becomes your own world, void of distraction, except for the music.

This sense of a unique musical space, although it does take some getting used to, definitely contributes to and really defines the custom IEM experience.

 

[music_4321]

Excellent last few posts.

It'd be interesting to hear more comments from Sasaki as he's got both the ES3X & UE-11

 

[521ztz]

Anyone knows how much this costs in Europe?

 

[pila405]

digihead have also UE-10, UE-11 & ES3X