[bryanjj]

http://appleplugs.com/

 

[msknight]

 That said a lot of Android users I talk to say iOS is still better as an overall experience. Right now I think I'll stay in the wait-and-see camp.

 
I think this is probably the wise choice. For some reason, we're all wired to, "act now!" and whenever I've bitten in the past, I've usually ended up with the wrong choice and lighter in pocket.
 
I hate iOS and Android (actually, I hate the corporate attitude of Apple, Google and Microsoft) and I'm currently on a course for Windows server (even the server product has tiles. Yuck!) ... and as such I've tried various phones outside the iOS and Android camps, even to the point of being one of the people that stumped up behind Jolla and Sailfish.
 
Nokia are gearing up to come back in to the phone market, allbeit with another Chinese piece of hardware. I think the clever money will sit and wait. Probably worth keeping an eye on Linux Tech Tips on YouTube as he likes his audio and gets his hands on a number of handsets. Lately he even mused as to whether the flagship mobile was done and over.
 
Me? I'm currently running a Wileyfox Storm (8 core Cyanogen) and it's a meh machine. I used to be one of those that would look to the phone to do everything, but as has been said before, everyone's picture/camera orientated. Sound seems to be ignored. Even when people talk motherboards, it's all FSB, video, SLI... no one talks about the on board DAC, whether it's got a headphone AMP... so yesterday I didn't cry too much when I spent my comfort zone on a DAP. (which also functions as a USB DAC)

 

[msknight]

About 5:20 in this video - well, heck, you might want to watch the whole thing to get a flavour of what's coming out of China... and it's already dealing a serious blow to Apple and Samsung - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uttS1QHrSu8
 
The other thing is... the manufacturers are listening to this guy and acting on what he's saying.

 

[Dismarum]

I was wondering for anyone that's into Android if they could make a short list of Android phones to check out? I know there's a thread out there somewhere for Android phones and audio quality. Right now I see the options as:

1) keep your existing phone and forget about upgrading (however I doubt Apple will reverse this decision)
2) is kind of 1b, wait for full bandwidth bluetooth audio that is uncompressed and upgrade with BT adapters or some new headphones in the next two years
3) buy a new iPhone that is not a 7 (6, 6S, SE)
4) switch to android
5) buy the iPhone 7, route it to some other dac/amp
6) buy the iPhone 7, learn to live with the dongle

I'm not sure how I feel about all this yet. I like to use my existing UE triple.fi 10s, I use it for phone calls to keep the phone away from my skull. Then I also use them to listen to music on my DAP. Now that compatibility is broken if I go iPhone 7. I tend to think the people really worried about this are niche/minority and won't get acknowledged. I'm not really a big fan of google. I think their mission is to get access to as much data as possible to run analytics for advertising and marketing. I'm not entirely thrilled about Android. Still faced with the choices I'm considering the next phone might be Android to quit using Apple in protest. That said a lot of Android users I talk to say iOS is still better as an overall experience. Right now I think I'll stay in the wait-and-see camp.

I second looking into the LG V series. I have the V10 and it's great. I'll probably be looking into the V20 or whatever iteration they're on the next time my upgrade cycle swings around. Reviews center it as a "power-techie" or "audiophile's" phone. I fall more into the latter camp. I'm a tech junkie, but the built in DAC and amp were HUGE bonuses to me. I snagged it when it was brand new and unheralded actually, with no idea it existed. Went in to upgrade to the new Samsung on Black Friday and the sales rep helping me was dead tired and immediately interrupted me when I asked about the Samsung with "no....nonono. Not gonna ******** you, I've been selling those all day and I'm tired of people wanting it when we have this in now." God bless that woman. She was doubly excited when I said my main needs were battery life, audio quality, and easy expandable storage.

Samsung Note phones are always solid for those wanting the flagship sleek line built to compete with the aesthetics of Apple, but you're gonna need a portable amp/DAC as well if you want an audio experience. They're great and pretty phones, but the best thing about Android is that there are phone manufacturers (like LG) who cater specifically to niche markets with their hardware, quality, and design.

I really never got the entire fanboy thing with Apple, after Android took off. I guess people just get caught in the Apple ecosystem and it's hard to make the switch, or they but into marketing hype. But FWIW, there was no looking back for me once I Went Android.

 

[EagleWings]

Few years down the line, Apple will have replaced every product they offer, with an equivalent iPad model. And they will start stripping the physical User Interface features on their products and make them all wireless, until they are left with multiple sizes of Aluminum panels with a processor and a bluetooth module slapped on to it. It will be the slimmest iPads ever, as thin as a Samurai's Katana. So you can literally chop your vegetables with the devices. And Apple will compare, how it's performance is x20000000000 times faster than the first ever computer invented on the planet. But there will be no way to see the performance, as the device will not have a screen to interact, because they want to make a bold move.
 
2" Aluminum panels - iPad Wrist
3", 4" Aluminum panels - iPad Music
5", 6", 7" Aluminum panels - iPad Talk
8", 9" Aluminum panels - iPad Mini
10" Aluminum panel - iPad original
11", 12", 13" Auminuml panels - iPad Pro
14", 15"..... 30" Aluminum panels - iPad Desk
30", 40"..... 50" Aluminum panels - iPad TV
100" Aluminum panel - iPad Ultimate
1000" Aluminum panels -  iPad What
 
Btw, I am a happy owner/user of current gen Apple devices (iPhone 6, Macbook Pro Retina 13" late 2013), who hates the company's marketing gimmicks and the path they are heading down with ditching clickable buttons and trackpads with haptic feedback counterparts and trying to make everything wireless.
 
What..

 

[PL4Y3R 0N3]

I second looking into the LG V series. I have the V10 and it's great. I'll probably be looking into the V20 or whatever iteration they're on the next time my upgrade cycle swings around. Reviews center it as a "power-techie" or "audiophile's" phone. I fall more into the latter camp. I'm a tech junkie, but the built in DAC and amp were HUGE bonuses to me. I snagged it when it was brand new and unheralded actually, with no idea it existed. Went in to upgrade to the new Samsung on Black Friday and the sales rep helping me was dead tired and immediately interrupted me when I asked about the Samsung with "no....nonono. Not gonna ******** you, I've been selling those all day and I'm tired of people wanting it when we have this in now." God bless that woman. She was doubly excited when I said my main needs were battery life, audio quality, and easy expandable storage.

Samsung Note phones are always solid for those wanting the flagship sleek line built to compete with the aesthetics of Apple, but you're gonna need a portable amp/DAC as well if you want an audio experience. They're great and pretty phones, but the best thing about Android is that there are phone manufacturers (like LG) who cater specifically to niche markets with their hardware, quality, and design.

I really never got the entire fanboy thing with Apple, after Android took off. I guess people just get caught in the Apple ecosystem and it's hard to make the switch, or they but into marketing hype. But FWIW, there was no looking back for me once I Went Android.

The reason I stayed with Apple, and probably still will, is the fact that not only do they have excellent hardware (other than the 3.5mm which they no longer have apparently) but also easy to use and streamlined software that was made to mesh perfectly with their phones to reduce problems with software and hardware not working together. That's it. If I wanted audio quality I would buy a dap. And I did, so now I could get an iPhone 7, but I have no incentive to upgrade just yet. It's not that I'm a diehard fanboy, there are things I dislike about Apple. The starter phone comes with only 16gb of storage, the finger print scanner on the 6s is a bit screwy, and the 6s doesn't get the best reception, but overall I'd still rather have a 6s than an android phone.

 

[Dismarum]

The starter phone comes with only 16gb of storage, the finger print scanner on the 6s is a bit screwy, and the 6s doesn't get the best reception, but overall I'd still rather have a 6s than an android phone

Well they no longer will make 16g phones. Think the newest will be 32g minimum.

I get the entire ease of use and software integration. I really do. I think it's Apple's main selling point in that whatever they release (be it a program, OS, or hardware) will magically be compatible with all other Apple devices and services with pretty much zero effort beyond linking it to your email account. There is a bit of fragmentation with Android that can make it not as nearly user friendly across devices, especially for those who just want a no-hassle experience.

I just find the opportunity to easily put in and swap out 200g micro SD cards, switch out my battery, have a headphone jack, and not have to haul around a DAC/amp as part of my everyday listening kit for work to outweigh Apple ease of use.

And TBH, I LIKE to tinker with things, which is probably the main reason I pref Android. I can root my device, overclock the processor, and do all sorts of things people shouldn't try if they don't want to void their warranty haha!

 

[Melrose]

You all probably complained to high heaven when the 3.5" floppy drive, or the physical keyboard, or the VGA port went missing... :/

C'mon guys - this is a high end audio forum, if you're into good quality audio you buy a DAP and accoutrements. In this community, if you say "I use a smartphone for my music I'm all dat" you'll get snickered out of existence. Besides which it's not a mysterious secret that the power out has better audio quality anyway. I don't appreciate the lack of convenience in the new iPhone, but I seriously doubt *that many people* will be charging and listening at the same time.

I don't understand the AirPods (in and of themselves they look like a gimmick) but then again I've never used my EarPods much either except working out...but the way you carry on you'd think no one knew how to plug in a pair of Fostex T50 RPMK3's into a Schiitt Stack.

I've used Windows, Macintosh, Android, and iOS - and user-wise stuff from Apple has always been far, far more reliable...as statistics also reveal. Besides which, no one except the NSA tracks and datamines more than Google. "Oops I lost my 3.5" mini jack, guess it's time to have Google snoop over my shoulder on every little thing I do!" It's ironic some people are using perceived "corporate greed" on Apple's part to suggest people switch to Google, which has no help desk at all, doesn't guarantee updates or upgrade support, and uses their monopoly to force users into using their services. You can't compare Apple to Google; every trash you'll throw at Apple applies ten times more to Google, except Google PRISM's the dickens out of their users.

/rant. I mean, I understand not having the jack there as a matter of convenience - I have the whole shebang audio wise, and I still realistically listen to music though my iPhone on the go more than with my setup, but guys it's not the end of the world here. This is a 1st World problem in a forum where lack of a 3.5 audio jack couldn't possibly matter less. So, you can switch to Android and be spied on, pay through the nose for a new phone every time your version of Android is 2+ iterations old because your handset maker won't support it, deal with the many security and stability issues it has... vote with your wallet. I'll use my nice setup when I want nice sound, and use the adapter when I'm on the go because it's not great audio anyway so I don't care.

/rant /rant

 

[PL4Y3R 0N3]

Melrose, totally agree. Truthfully, I can't distinguish between my fiio x1 and my iPhone 6s, and I'd much rather have all of my music on the expandable storage of a dap. Apple continuously makes good phones, so I will continuously buy them as long as quality is still high.
Thanks for the rant, although I'm afraid this particular thread has become full of them.

 

[apmusson]

Melrose, totally agree. Truthfully, I can't distinguish between my fiio x1 and my iPhone 6s, and I'd much rather have all of my music on the expandable storage of a dap. Apple continuously makes good phones, so I will continuously buy them as long as quality is still high.
Thanks for the rant, although I'm afraid this particular thread has become full of them.

I enjoy listening to podcasts, YouTube clips, music and sometimes phone calls through my earbuds on my mobile phone. I haven't had to worry about charging wireless earphones or bringing a separate dongle in the past. I suppose that is now a consideration....

I have had the option of using wireless if I want to.

 

[PL4Y3R 0N3]

I enjoy listening to podcasts, YouTube clips, music and sometimes phone calls through my earbuds on my mobile phone. I haven't had to worry about charging wireless earphones or bringing a separate dongle in the past. I suppose that is now a consideration....

I have had the option of using wireless if I want to.

Wireless is one option, but truthfully the adapter that is provided looks awesome. I was expecting something smaller and easier to lose, but they surprised me. You can always keep that on the IEMs you use for your phone, or even just use the included Apple EarPods that come with the phone. For anything but music great SQ isn't really that necessary. For YouTube videos and podcasts I can hardly tell the difference between my beats studio wireless and my RHA ma750.

 

[dazzerfong]

Wireless is one option, but truthfully the adapter that is provided looks awesome. I was expecting something smaller and easier to lose, but they surprised me. You can always keep that on the IEMs you use for your phone, or even just use the included Apple EarPods that come with the phone. For anything but music great SQ isn't really that necessary. For YouTube videos and podcasts I can hardly tell the difference between my beats studio wireless and my RHA ma750.

Know what's even better than that adapter? An invisible one which has zero mass and size. Mind-blowing, right? Guess what? Such an adapter exists on practically every phone except the iPhone 7!

The apologists are getting pretty funny now. Yes, it's a first world problem. Know what also is? Carrying a DAP around to listen to music because you think that 0.1% advantage is audible in a noisy environment.

 

[rwpritchett]

Background: I have a mix of Apple and Android devices... about 50/50 with the top dogs being iPhone 6S+ and Galaxy S6. I'm not a fanboy of either team. My wife loves her Apple and I love my Android (integration and simplicity for her, drag and drop HD flac support for me).

Since the first rumors of the iPhone 7 removing the headphone jack, I've seen a lot of Apple supporters saying good riddance to the outdated headphone jack, audio from the lightning port sounds better, etc. Removal of the headphone jack doesn't affect me in any way. Not only do I prefer Android, but I also prefer to use a DragonFly to listen to music on my phone and would use it with Apple too even if there was a headphone port.

That said, I am really curious about the implementation Apple has come up with. For starters, there have been lightning headphones before the iPhone 7 (i.e. Philips Fidelio M2L, Audeze Sine) but these headphones have built in DACs to convert the digital audio to analog. That also means moving the DAC from the phone to the headphones may sound better, but it might not... depending on the headphone DAC being used in comparison to the phone hardware.

With the iPhone 7, Apple has included that 3.5mm adapter to use with traditional wired headphones. At $10 and with it's tiny size I highly doubt that adapter contains a DAC which would mean the internal DAC of the phone is being used and analog is being sent over the adapter. If this is the case, the lightning port is just being used as a different shaped analog headphone jack, right? I remember the 30-pin to lightning adapters had a built-in DAC, but the adapters were like $30-40.

Does the lightning port have the ability to output both digital (for external DACs) and analog (using the adapter) audio?

I am genuinely curious about this.

 

[Wilderness]

  This might be too early to answer but is Apple changing the nature of the lightning port audio signal?  Right now it operating as a "line out" - an unamped (or possibly consistently amped) non-equalized signal. A signal that you could run into an external DAC to do all those functions. But in the 7 you can plug headphones into a $9 converter -- which at that price cannot have circuity -- and control volume and equalization through the phone,  So does that mean there will no longer be a line out for an external DAC, and will I have to run everything through the iphone DAC and then into the external DAC? 

Belkin sells a portable adapter that makes it possible to charge and listen at the same time, but I read that you would also have to plug in Apple's adapter for the iPhone 7 if you want to use non-lightning headphones.  That would look weird, and it would be awkward and inconvenient.  I doubt that I would ever go that route.
 
Apple sells two adapters (both camera connection kits), that will work with an external DAC.  I bought the simple, cheaper camera connection kit, because it is thinner.  The other one is wider but it allows charging and listening at the same time.  The thinner one I bought allows me to plug in my small, thumb drive sized Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC, which improves the sound with my iPhone 6 or iPad Pro 9.7 a little bit.  My cash outlay was $200 for the DAC and $29 for the camera connection kit.  When I am not using my Sony ZX2 DAP, I usually just use my iPad's headphone jack for headphones or with my car's audio system and leave my Dragonfly DAC plugged in to my home computer for use with speakers.
 
So, for my car's audio system or headphones, I usualy use my Sony ZX2 DAP.  It plays high resolution music through its standard heaphone jack -- no adapter or DAC required.  It blows the iPhone away.  The Sony even blows away the iPhone with the $200 Dragonfly DAC.  Sony has proven with its ZX2 DAP that high resolution music can play straight out of a standard headphone jack.
 
I don't like that Apple removed the headphone jack, but the reality is that I have already moved on and rarely listen to music from my iPhone.  I do listen a little through my iPad, and I will be sad to see the next iPad's headphone jack get the axe.
 
It was a stupid, arrogant move by Apple to remove the headphone jack.  Its stock price has been down for a year now, it fell again today, and this will keep it down.  Many people will switch to Android or DAPs.

 

[Kammex]

 
Belkin sells a portable adapter that makes it possible to charge and listen at the same time, but I read that you would also have to plug in Apple's adapter for the iPhone 7 if you want to use non-lightning headphones.  That would look weird, and it would be awkward and inconvenient.  I doubt that I would ever go that route.
 
Apple sells two adapters (both camera connection kits), that will work with an external DAC.  I bought the simple, cheaper camera connection kit, because it is thinner.  The other one is wider but it allows charging and listening at the same time.  The thinner one I bought allows me to plug in my small, thumb drive sized Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC, which improves the sound with my iPhone 6 or iPad Pro 9.7 a little bit.  My cash outlay was $200 for the DAC and $29 for the camera connection kit.  When I am not using my Sony ZX2 DAP, I usually just use my iPad's headphone jack for headphones or with my car's audio system and leave my Dragonfly DAC plugged in to my home computer for use with speakers.
 
So, for my car's audio system or headphones, I usualy use my Sony ZX2 DAP.  It plays high resolution music through its standard heaphone jack -- no adapter or DAC required.  It blows the iPhone away.  The Sony even blows away the iPhone with the $200 Dragonfly DAC.  Sony has proven with its ZX2 DAP that high resolution music can play straight out of a standard headphone jack.
 
I don't like that Apple removed the headphone jack, but the reality is that I have already moved on and rarely listen to music from my iPhone.  I do listen a little through my iPad, and I will be sad to see the next iPad's headphone jack get the axe.
 
It was a stupid, arrogant move by Apple to remove the headphone jack.  Its stock price has been down for a year now, it fell again today, and this will keep it down.  Many people will switch to Android or DAPs.

Or in my case, an Android DAP. (Hopefully)
 
What really triggers me about the headphone jack on the iPhone 7, or lack thereof, is that it's a problem. So to solve the problem, you buy an adapter. It's a problem AND a solution, delivered right to you!
 
Why not just don't create the problem in the first place?