[sdaigle240]

mvw2, very informational post for a IEM rook like myself, thank you sir!

why not just throw my self in the middle eh? i agree with the whole subjective this and that...and i also agree that the RE0 bass quantity:quality(accuracy) ratio may not be the preference of you ears, BUT accuracy, as in proper sound reproduction does not equal quantity as in magnitude. marshmallows have more bass quantity then RE0s that does not make them more accurate regardless of whose ears are listening.

 

[daouda]

True, there's heavily colored sound reproduction and then there are earphones that try and pretend to be neutral, but to determine with our human ears and sound memory which among those are truly accurate compared to the others, without using some kind of objective measurement, seems close to impossible to me, and we're falling into subjective limbo and aquired taste. Are you canadian? (would be awesome to see that i can guess someone's nationality based on a single post of only a few sentences! As you may guess it's the "eh" that makes me think so. Ive lived in Canada)

EDIT: cyclone pr1pro are NOT basshead phones AT ALL by the way. And nobody here has ever qualified them as "bass-enhanced" or "bass heavy" or "bass forward", everyone who have heard them agree that they have among the most neutral and balanced sound signature you can get. Their "bass enhanced" counterpart are the Cyclone PR2


EDIT2
Sorry about all that, im out now... I know ive been a little too resilient but im french and as you may or may not know, french people really enjoy arguing to no end about anything, pretty much until subsequent death, which would then be a very happy one

 

[sdaigle240]

hahah b/c i said "eh" no im in the states. my damn salesmen are Canadian, cant believe its rubbing off. the mellows were definitely and exaggerated example. maybe i should have said S4s?? i didn't think those kind of testing result were that uncommon around here. once i settle on my 3rd IEM i will be taking all of them to my old acoustics lab and fairly conclusively testing the frequency response. hope im not coming of as arguing a point, or nay saying, just throwing in a different angle for the sake of and interesting discussion. but im sticking to my gunz, accuracy only equals quantity if that quantity matches what was intended on the recording. which is i think what your saying lol, if not im also happy to agree to disagree. i look at bass as a ratio, its always going to be a give and take of quantity and quality.

Edit to your edit lol, PR1s are likey to be that 3rd IEM

ive learned im not a bass-head, but i think im realizing im a mid-head.

 

[mvw2]

I'll agree, bang for the buck, the RE0 is one of the best options out there.

However it's typically touted as something almost ridiculously amazing when it is not. It is simply very well balanced and has no major faults. It's characteristics are likable like the relatively natural sound, slightly warm/dark, detailed but restrained to not fatigue. You can plop them in your ear and be content. They don't exactly amaze, but they also don't offend. It's just a good package and for $80, it's a great deal.

The reason why I'm ripping on them a little bit in this thread is because OP stated he wanted a good sound stage. This is a rather specific and typically hard to find requirement, at least done well. The RE0 is simply not good at it. There's general left, right, and center, and that's about it. This in my context is a rather low level ability. A better earphone would at least portray some vague sense of location, even if fuzzy. the RE0 doesn't do this. I'm not trying to be mean about the RE0, but I simply repeat since that is a main requirement OP described.

 

[true blue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't say I've liked any earphone for sleeping. I've found nothing that really lets you lay on it comfortably and without worry of damage to the earphone. I guess I'd sort of advise against it if possible.

Wow, again, thank you for the really informative post!

You're right, I shouldn't sleep on the side with an IEM. The C551's were pretty uncomfortable, even though they are rather small. I've wiped sleep comfort from my requirements.

Other than the ER-4S, what other IEMs did you hear that had great soundstage/positioning?

 

[mvw2]

Sound stage is a little bit of a preference. Some people like something that's very in your face/on stage. Others like to be back in the stands somewhere. The sizing depends on preference.

Locational cues are more specific, it's kind of independent of size, sort of the earphone either can do it or it can't. Some can provide a general left, right, center, and for a lot of people that's good. Some can start to covey layering and distance as well as general direction, and this begins to let you create a fuzzy mental image. A few earphones can define pinpoint direction and distance. This is sort of the pinnacle of stage presentation, the ability to put the singer/drumer/guitarist on stage in appropriate places and screaming fans out in the crowd at appropriate distance. Very very few earphones do this well. Should you demand this? That depends on what you deem necessary. Some people just don't care that much. Others do. People's priorities and needs are different.

One question to you is how much stage presence do you need? Upon your listening and understanding yourself, how much are you content with? Do you have any preference on sense of size, space, proximity? Do you prefer a laid back observer type of presentation or prefer to be right up on stage with the band?

Going back to the C551 earphone, if you were to change anything about how they sound, what would you change? How would you vary it to turn it into something more your ideal?

 

[true blue]

I found the C551's soundstage to be on the small side and the locational cues were pretty general.

I prefer a soundstage that's like sitting in the 4th row at a concert, somewhat in-your-face. The width/depth/height big enough so that everything sounds clearly spaced apart. And I like very specific and pinpoint locational cues.

 

[mvw2]

I do wish I knew how the C551 compares to the C700/C751 in terms of sound. There's probably at least a couple threads on here comparing the two models directly.

What about frequency response? Did you like that or would you change something if you could?

 

[true blue]

Trying to remember it as best I can, almost 2 years since I last had them. I might be a bit off about what I tell you.

Bass seemed to overpower the rest of the spectrum a bit too much, and it was a bit too punchy/in-your-face. But it was somewhat tight, which was good.

The mids were seemed muffled and a bit recessed?

The highs weren't very good, not very detailed, harsh, and fatiguing.

I'm looking for good balance throughout the spectrum. Nothing overpowering the other. Sound that isn't bright nor dark. Bass that extends deep and tight but controlled. Mids that aren't muffled or recessed (but not forward either). And highs that extend well without being harsh or too sparkly.

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

I'm looking for good balance throughout the spectrum. Nothing overpowering the other. Sound that isn't bright nor dark. Bass that extends deep and tight but controlled. Mids that aren't muffled or recessed (but not forward either). And highs that extend well without being harsh or too sparkly.

Me too but I can 't afford the JH13s

Quote:

RE0 just doesn't have adequate amount of bass unamped IMO

What about with a decent amp (the Arrow to be specific, with available 6 & 9db bass boost)?

 

[grokit]

I have been reading a lot about the RE0s and there seems to be quite a polarization about their bass qualities. From what I have gathered, the bass is quite good on them if you take care to get a good seal, and they don't need amplification to "get there" like the RE1s. I bought the RE1s because I use an amp, but from what I gather on this and other forums the RE0 is not lacking in bass at all with a proper seal. If I was looking for a HQ balanced universal IEM, under $100, the RE0 would be my first choice. The RE1s are awesome too, listening to them right now

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have been reading a lot about the RE0s and there seems to be quite a polarization about their bass qualities. From what I have gathered, the bass is quite good on them if you take care to get a good seal, and they don't need amplification to "get there" like the RE1s. I bought the RE1s because I use an amp, but from what I gather on this and other forums the RE0 is not lacking in bass at all with a proper seal. If I was looking for a HQ balanced universal IEM, under $100, the RE0 would be my first choice. The RE1s are awesome too, listening to them right now

Thanks Grokit,
I'm very close to making my decision based on what I have now read

What about under $200 (as they first sold for close to that).

 

[semisight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellenback /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Grokit, I'm very close to making my decision based on what I have now read What about under $200 (as they first sold for close to that).

Under $200 the top choices for balanced would be phones like the CK10 (lauded as an "upgrade" to the RE0) and the RE252 (sorta like the RE0 but with a bit more bass - read the reviews).

I'd go for the CK10 myself.

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

read the reviews

That's about all I.ve been doing lately

your recommendations certaily seem in line with what I've been reading.
Thanks

 

[mvw2]

So balance, balance, balance is key. A few do this well. The sound stage aspect is a little up in the air though. Something like the RE0 has great balance but poor sound stage, well sized, laid back, but lacks specific placement. A step up in price might be Klipsch's Custom 3, no longer produced but widely available on eBay in the $150 range. The people who have used them like them, and reviews were good enough for me to recently pick up a pair. They do just about everything very well short the sound stage which is tiny and lacking solid locational cues. The cord also has a bit of microphonics due to its covering and is a bit tangly, not terrible, but there's better cords out there. If you weren't too particular about the sound stage, I would have no trouble suggesting them. In all other regards they're great and are very well balanced. Heck, you might just want to give them a try anyways to see if the sound stage aspect is something you even care enough about to worry about over other aspects.