Well balanced, detailed, versatile IEM
Feb 12, 2010 at 9:57 AM Post #31 of 83
Quote:

Originally Posted by brendon /img/forum/go_quote.gif
^^ I am sorry but are you implying that the ER4 has great soundstage ? I heard soundstage of the ER4P is very thin ?


No offence here. FWIR ER4's soundstage is small/average. RE0 too FWIR has good instrument seperation.
 
Feb 12, 2010 at 11:28 AM Post #32 of 83
Quote:

Originally Posted by kunalraiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've read that triple-fi 10's feel as sticks in your ears, they point out of your ears like some weird earnings.
I know a few members who have both RE0 and triple fi 10's , they swear by the RE0's



I have both and had(have) a love affair with the RE0, but the TF10 is just playing in another league as far as I am concerned.

Certainly it depends on what your looking for in an IEM but after going back to the RE0 from the TripleFi I feel like I am missing so much.

Also I get a good fit with with the TF10's with the flip mod.
 
Feb 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM Post #33 of 83
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kezghan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have both and had(have) a love affair with the RE0, but the TF10 is just playing in another league as far as I am concerned.

Certainly it depends on what your looking for in an IEM but after going back to the RE0 from the TripleFi I feel like I am missing so much.

Also I get a good fit with with the TF10's with the flip mod.



Its nice to know you have both, in terms of Musicalities what do you feel are the differences.
 
Feb 12, 2010 at 3:47 PM Post #34 of 83
I'd say the soundstage is pretty average with the RE0s but instrument separation is pretty good to my ears.
 
Feb 12, 2010 at 4:35 PM Post #35 of 83
Everyone, thanks for all of the discussion. I'm surprised that my thread even went past a page!
bigsmile_face.gif


I don't think the TF10 is an option, they'll probably be uncomfortable for sleeping. I used to have a pair of C551's, which are smaller, and they weren't exactly optimal for sleeping.

mvw2, thank you for putting the effort into a really informative post. But I don't think any of the IEMs you mentioned are for me.

The HJE900 looks really good! Will it be able to play all of my music well? Gonna ask this in the HJE900 thread too.

The Phonak PFE looks good too.
 
Feb 12, 2010 at 5:55 PM Post #36 of 83
Quote:

Originally Posted by kunalraiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've read that triple-fi 10's feel as sticks in your ears, they point out of your ears like some weird earnings.
I know a few members who have both RE0 and triple fi 10's , they swear by the RE0's



my 1 gripe with the sound of the TF10 is the recessed mid, but it's fine if you turn the volume slightly higher. The OP said he wants at least a little bit of bass and RE0 just doesn't have adequate amount of bass unamped IMO. TF10 also has much better soundstage.
 
Feb 12, 2010 at 10:13 PM Post #37 of 83
I have used all the earphones I've mentioned.

I'll clarify on sound stage in my definition.

First off, stage size is not a major concern for me. Many times this falls into one of a few categories. A small sound stage is typically close/personal. You might feel like you're up on stage with the band rather then out in the crowd. A good example is Westone's UM3X, very much sitting right in front of the singer's face. A big sound stage is spacious but also far away. You feel more like you're in a concert hall way bay. A good example is Sennheiser's IE8, very well known for this.

A third place that sound stage falls into is distancing. This is more of an ability for an earphone to sound either closed in or limitless in size. The Triple.Fi is a good example of a closed in sound. It has good locational cues and layering, but all sounds seem confined into a room of a set size and no sound exists outside of this virtual room. Ones that I feel do better are ones that sound limitless where noises can exist close or very far away. I'll note the sound stage can sound small or big and still have this. The limitlessness is not constrained by proximity. The Westone UM3X is a good example of a very close stage presence where you sound like you're right up on stage, but at the same time sounds are not limited in distance where you can hear a noise that sounds 20 feet back or the crowd chearing 100 feet back. It doesn't sound closed in.

Proximity is a matter of personal preference. I kind of consider a closed in sound a flaw, a limitation of dynamic breadth.

The sound stage is also broken into location and distance. A good earphone should put every sound in a very specific spot in mental space. The UM3X is awesome at doing this. The SE530 is very good about this. Distance, depending on level of detail and linearity of dynamic range can be sometimes fuzzy or misplaced. For example, My Ok1 buds are very linear but slightly fuzzy on exact distance. The SE530 is messy and inconsistent on distance. The UM3X is very accurate on distance to where you can basically break out a virtual tape measure and say the drumer is 23ft. back, not 22ft. or 24ft. Layering comes from this ability to distance as well as the ability to clearly define complex, noisy information. Some of it has to do with the speed and accuracy of the earphone.

An earphone with a good sound stage can be of any proximity (size) desired but should be open (not closed in) and should be able to place sounds in an exact location in virtual space.

The ER4S is one of the better earphones I've used that does this. The UM3X is one of the best. The RE0 is incapable of creating locational cues. You get a vague sense of left, right, and center but you get little sense of specific location and distance. Layering is mediocre too. The sound stage size is medium, and it doesn't sound closed in. The RE0's stage presence simply isn't great, plain and simple.

I haven't really mentioned cheaper earphones here because a lot of them simply aren't that good with producing an accurate or even coherent sound stage. Some may sound big and spacious, but they also completely lack specific locational cues.

True Blue, I can't say I've liked any earphone for sleeping. I've found nothing that really lets you lay on it comfortably and without worry of damage to the earphone. I guess I'd sort of advise against it if possible.

Since you've used the C551, you'll have a decent idea of what the C751 sounds like, although I don't know how they vary in sound. The frequency response is nearly identical, but I have no clue if the presentation is different between the two.

The Phonak PFE with gray filters has nearly the same frequency response of the Etymotic ER4. The PFE is an earphone that is very comfortable and if I were to pick one that I might sleep with, it'd be one of them. However, the sound stage is only ok. The ER4 does better, but it isn't one you'd sleep with. The Westone UM2 would be a good choice too, sharing the same driver as the ER4P but with more bass, and the physical design is comfortable and sits flush enough where you could sleep on your side with them. Bang for the buck, the UM2 might be the best option for what you seem to be looking for. However, pricing new seems to suck a bit right now. For reference, I think I paid somewhere around $250, maybe a hair more, for a used UM3X, but new is well above $300, like $370+. The UM2 new is $300, but I would expect a used pair to hopefully be under $200. One can only hope though.
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 2:59 AM Post #38 of 83
Quote:

Originally Posted by kunalraiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've read that triple-fi 10's feel as sticks in your ears, they point out of your ears like some weird earnings.
I know a few members who have both RE0 and triple fi 10's , they swear by the RE0's



I'm new to IEMs and looking/lurking. If these phones are even compared to ones that cost $3-$400 why is there any debate? Are they really that "in your head" or bass shy?

I've mentioned elsewhere that my brother in law bought some Sennheiser Sport IIs. I forget the name/number but they are orange, moisture resistant and have unequal length wires for stringing them around your neck. They sounded terrible; amped, un-amped no matter what, with no matter what source......I mean absolutely no depth/bass soundstage or ANYTHING that could be remotely considered good sound...literally intolerable and they were $100! I am truly afraid to make the same kind of mistake by buying blind as he did. These Senn IEMs actually had several good reviews (albeit with comments about being "lacking in bass response" and maybe a little thin)
Thin....they sounded like a transistor radio turned up loud as far as I was concerned. (I'm a Sennheiser (HD650) user so I'm not knocking Sennheiser, just these IEMs..I'm kind of hoping they were defective but wouldn't risk money on other ones described in a simnilar manner.)
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:02 AM Post #39 of 83
Well the RE0 used to be $200. It really comes down to your preference. There are things that the RE0 does better and things TF10 does better. I wouldn't consider them bass shy like an ER6i or bass monsters. It's just accurate bass
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:17 AM Post #40 of 83
"accurate bass" seems to be a subjective statement. I would say that the cyclone pr1pro have accurate bass quantity, more i consider bass-enhanced, and less i consider bass-light or bass-lacking and unacceptable. Since RE0 has reportedly less bass than pr1pro, they would definitely have inaccurate, lacking bass to my ears.
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:23 AM Post #41 of 83
Just to give some perspective...the only IEM I have even ever heard that impressed me was the SureSE530...they were around $500 a few years ago and I heard them at the Toronto Downtown meet. They blew me away at the time really, because I deidn't know IEMs were even capable of that kind of sound. I have since learned different and would be happy to get even close to what I heard then for <$200 if it's possible. (Keep in mind they are always going to be a secondary headphone to my HD650s...hell, even my PortaPro's sound would be fine for <$100.)
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:27 AM Post #42 of 83
Quote:

Originally Posted by daouda /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"accurate bass" seems to be a subjective statement. I would say that the cyclone pr1pro have accurate bass quantity, more i consider bass-enhanced, and less i consider bass-light or bass-lacking and unacceptable. Since RE0 has reportedly less bass than pr1pro, they would definitely have inaccurate, lacking bass to my ears.


have u heard the RE0?
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:35 AM Post #43 of 83
As i said explicitely earlier in this thread and as my use of the words "reportedly" and "would...to my ears" in that last post imply, i havent heard them, so you already know that. But i trust joker who has explicitely stated that pr1pro has more bass quantity compared to RE0. Since i have determined that pr1pro represents the accurate amount of bass for me, i can confidently affirm that RE0 (unamped) would sound bass-light TO MY EARS (as i explicitely specified). Maybe you want to tell me what should be accurate to my ears?
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:42 AM Post #44 of 83
I just find it hard to explain how you could say with such confidence about something you have never heard and only base it off something you read regardless of who the writer or the review was.
 
Feb 13, 2010 at 3:49 AM Post #45 of 83
Im not saying that its not accurate for you or for most people here for that matter, i just think there is no such thing as true "accuracy" which i beleieve is a very subjective thing when we're talking about sound, just as every other thing related to individual perceptions. There are a lot of people here on headfi who beleive RE0 has accurate bass, and quite a few who say it is bass-light, so affirming "its just accurate bass" seems to me like more of an excessively confident statement than deducing "it would be bass-light to my ears" from reported differences in bass amount

EDIT
Joker has never said that RE0 was bass light by the way, and had he said that i couldnt have taken it into consideration since its a subjective statement that provides no point of reference when i dont know when a given amount of bass gets "light" for him.
But he did say that PR1PRO bass quantity> REO bass quantity which is an objective statement that i can use to deduce how "accurate" RE0 bass would be for me since I own PR1PRO (you will agree that the differences in sound volume is a factual, non subjective thing that any individual perceive equally no matter their taste)
There's your explanation
 

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