Watts Up...?
Mar 28, 2024 at 9:39 AM Post #4,533 of 4,651
The new Quartet M scaler will have more complex and lossless EQ built in. Oddly enough, I am putting the finishing touches to it right now.

Having EQ that does not mess up sound quality or musicality is a really useful tool.
wowwwwwww. Just can say wow . because my fund is only limited to Mojo 2 unfortunately 😭
 
Mar 28, 2024 at 10:25 AM Post #4,534 of 4,651
The new Quartet M scaler will have more complex and lossless EQ built in. Oddly enough, I am putting the finishing touches to it right now.

Having EQ that does not mess up sound quality or musicality is a really useful tool.
Since my living room stereo definitely needs EQ and I am definitely buying the Quartet M Scaler, I would love to volunteer to beta test your pre-production unit in the middle of nowhere Canada. I don’t even mind paying Chord in full now and can exchange the production unit for the pre-production beta unit when it becomes available. Hahaha. One can dream.
 
Mar 28, 2024 at 10:25 AM Post #4,535 of 4,651
The new Quartet M scaler will have more complex and lossless EQ built in. Oddly enough, I am putting the finishing touches to it right now.
Fantastic news, Rob - thank you so much!

I would particularly value some kind of banded EQ (e.g., choose a frequency such as 2 kHz and apply a smooth increase around this point) rather than just a traditional "bass" or "treble". (McIntosh amps such as the MA12000 let one apply selective adjustments to up to 8 frequency bands.)
 
Mar 28, 2024 at 10:28 AM Post #4,536 of 4,651
The new Quartet M scaler will have more complex and lossless EQ built in. Oddly enough, I am putting the finishing touches to it right now.

Having EQ that does not mess up sound quality or musicality is a really useful tool.
Will you be able to load the EQ via USB - say from an app like Roon or REW? Or will you have fiddle with coloured balls? And will the volume be controllable via USB also, so that music players like JRiver and Roon can set it?
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 5:31 AM Post #4,537 of 4,651
Will you be able to load the EQ via USB - say from an app like Roon or REW? Or will you have fiddle with coloured balls? And will the volume be controllable via USB also, so that music players like JRiver and Roon can set it?
This is an extremely good point.

Since Mojo 2 uses the EQ mechanism to effect volume control, it seems reasonable that Quarter M Scaler would implement volume control in the same manner.

Honestly, though, I doubt Rob will implement any form of communication "over the wire" for either EQ or volume, to support JRiver or Roon or an uploaded REW profile.

I do hope that Quartet M Scaler has a display of at least DAVE's capability and also includes sufficient buttons to make the setting of EQ more transparently comprehensible without a manual than is seen with Mojo 2. Clearly Mojo 2 is constrained by case size and costs, in general - but Quartet M Scaler shouldn't be.

Well, in any case, the die is cast. I don't think there's a chance of substantial new capabilities being added - we saw such an improvement with Blu Mk 2 where the USB input was added due to popular demand very late in development. But this seems unlikely to be repeated with Quartet M Scaler.

Though I think Rob does use JRiver...

Currently Hugo M Scaler provides the DX volume command interface - the user is able to specify a volume level, but no change to the audio data is made. Instead the connected DAC is expected to take this volume command and act upon it within its own implementation of volume control.

All future DACs in the mould of Hugo 2, TT2 or DAVE will need to have volume control as part of their built-in functionality in order to enable them to operate stand-alone. So all of them will require some form of user-selectable volume control. By this I mean to say that while a stand-alone DAC might be considered to be a slave of Quartet M Scaler due to it sending music data to the DAC having EQ and volume control, a DAC with a headphone socket must be fully operational in a stand-alone form.

I hope that Quartet M Scaler retains DX volume control capability for use with DX amps, for what it's worth. I would ultimately like to exchange my power amplifier for a DX one. It can be argued that volume control capability within Quartet M Scaler obviates the DX command of volume to a DX amp.

On the other hand there is a more complex scenario for EQ: when a user wants to deploy multiple power amplifiers for an "active speaker crossover" capability, there is a need for each channel of power amplification to have its own bandpass settings. In this scenario the music data cannot be EQ'd globally for all of these amplifiers without having many channels of output from Quartet M Scaler.

A possible solution would be that the DX command vocabulary is enhanced to communicate EQ (high pass, low pass, bandpass) to multiple power amplifiers. Implicit in this, it appears, would be the need to daisy-chain these amplifiers to take stereo digital outputs from Quarter M Scaler. Each of the daisy-chained amplifiers would then need to be instructed to subscribe to a specific channel of EQ setting. e.g. in a 3-driver speaker there needs to be 3 channels of EQ settings per speaker (6 channels of amplification, overall, for stereo). In each daisy-chain (defined as being either the left or right music channel) each amplifier has to be configured to subscribe to one of the low, mid or high EQ bands corresponding to bass, midrange or treble drivers.

As I understand it, Mojo 2 performs EQ/volume after WTA1 has been processed. Conveniently all future DACs and DX amps will have equal access to "post-WTA1" data, whether they are stand-alone (no M Scaler) or connected to either Hugo or Quartet M Scaler. So it seems reasonable to presume that all future DACs will have the ability to perform EQ in the same way as Mojo 2 currently does, whether or not there's a scaler providing data.

This would also mean that an EQ capability (for active speaker configuration) in DX amps would be the sole responsibility of the DX amps and would not be directed or effected by Quartet M Scaler. Daisy-chaining would still be required, but each DX amp would be solely responsible for the EQ tailored to the speaker driver it powers.

The user might perform "global EQ" for the system as a whole, using the EQ capability of Quartet M Scaler. Each DX amp would then be responsible for the driver's filtering...
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 8:39 AM Post #4,538 of 4,651
This would also mean that an EQ capability (for active speaker configuration) in DX amps would be the sole responsibility of the DX amps and would not be directed or effected by Quartet M Scaler. Daisy-chaining would still be required, but each DX amp would be solely responsible for the EQ tailored to the speaker driver it powers.

The user might perform "global EQ" for the system as a whole, using the EQ capability of Quartet M Scaler. Each DX amp would then be responsible for the driver's filtering...
And if Rob would also add a phase shifting function between the channels .. we could let go of our speaker's crossover filters for good :wink:

Boy that could sound good
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 9:05 AM Post #4,539 of 4,651
This is an extremely good point.

Since Mojo 2 uses the EQ mechanism to effect volume control, it seems reasonable that Quarter M Scaler would implement volume control in the same manner.

Honestly, though, I doubt Rob will implement any form of communication "over the wire" for either EQ or volume, to support JRiver or Roon or an uploaded REW profile.

I do hope that Quartet M Scaler has a display of at least DAVE's capability and also includes sufficient buttons to make the setting of EQ more transparently comprehensible without a manual than is seen with Mojo 2. Clearly Mojo 2 is constrained by case size and costs, in general - but Quartet M Scaler shouldn't be.

Well, in any case, the die is cast. I don't think there's a chance of substantial new capabilities being added - we saw such an improvement with Blu Mk 2 where the USB input was added due to popular demand very late in development. But this seems unlikely to be repeated with Quartet M Scaler.

Though I think Rob does use JRiver...

Currently Hugo M Scaler provides the DX volume command interface - the user is able to specify a volume level, but no change to the audio data is made. Instead the connected DAC is expected to take this volume command and act upon it within its own implementation of volume control.

All future DACs in the mould of Hugo 2, TT2 or DAVE will need to have volume control as part of their built-in functionality in order to enable them to operate stand-alone. So all of them will require some form of user-selectable volume control. By this I mean to say that while a stand-alone DAC might be considered to be a slave of Quartet M Scaler due to it sending music data to the DAC having EQ and volume control, a DAC with a headphone socket must be fully operational in a stand-alone form.

I hope that Quartet M Scaler retains DX volume control capability for use with DX amps, for what it's worth. I would ultimately like to exchange my power amplifier for a DX one. It can be argued that volume control capability within Quartet M Scaler obviates the DX command of volume to a DX amp.

On the other hand there is a more complex scenario for EQ: when a user wants to deploy multiple power amplifiers for an "active speaker crossover" capability, there is a need for each channel of power amplification to have its own bandpass settings. In this scenario the music data cannot be EQ'd globally for all of these amplifiers without having many channels of output from Quartet M Scaler.

A possible solution would be that the DX command vocabulary is enhanced to communicate EQ (high pass, low pass, bandpass) to multiple power amplifiers. Implicit in this, it appears, would be the need to daisy-chain these amplifiers to take stereo digital outputs from Quarter M Scaler. Each of the daisy-chained amplifiers would then need to be instructed to subscribe to a specific channel of EQ setting. e.g. in a 3-driver speaker there needs to be 3 channels of EQ settings per speaker (6 channels of amplification, overall, for stereo). In each daisy-chain (defined as being either the left or right music channel) each amplifier has to be configured to subscribe to one of the low, mid or high EQ bands corresponding to bass, midrange or treble drivers.

As I understand it, Mojo 2 performs EQ/volume after WTA1 has been processed. Conveniently all future DACs and DX amps will have equal access to "post-WTA1" data, whether they are stand-alone (no M Scaler) or connected to either Hugo or Quartet M Scaler. So it seems reasonable to presume that all future DACs will have the ability to perform EQ in the same way as Mojo 2 currently does, whether or not there's a scaler providing data.

This would also mean that an EQ capability (for active speaker configuration) in DX amps would be the sole responsibility of the DX amps and would not be directed or effected by Quartet M Scaler. Daisy-chaining would still be required, but each DX amp would be solely responsible for the EQ tailored to the speaker driver it powers.

The user might perform "global EQ" for the system as a whole, using the EQ capability of Quartet M Scaler. Each DX amp would then be responsible for the driver's filtering...
Many potential users will have more than one pair of headphones and/or use headphones and speakers. For me at least the ability to have easily selected presets would be essential.

Some headphone manufacturers like Audeze also have recommended EQ for each of their models. Again, I would hope for easily selectable presets for these.

But being able to set parametric (or whatever) EQ via USB and a decent interface like Roon would be ideal.
 
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Mar 29, 2024 at 10:12 AM Post #4,541 of 4,651
wowwwwwww. Just can say wow . because my fund is only limited to Mojo 2 unfortunately 😭
Then you'll be happy to know that the Mojo2 has probably (imho) the best-sounding digital DAC EQ implemented to date. That is one serious little box, and will provide plenty of happiness for you. :)
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 11:29 AM Post #4,542 of 4,651
I will admit that I have very low expectations for flexibility and options for the new Quartet M Scaler EQ, given what was provided for Mojo2.
The truth is, different people have different EQ "needs". And it is just not possible for a hardware product to fulfill all those needs. Especially when hardware designs always involve a serious set of compromises. While this is true for software too, there is simply a lot more flexibility and fewer compromises.
For many who use headphones, what Mojo2 can do is probably good enough. Especially when you take into account the exceptional transparency. In fact, for many who listen with speakers, it is likely that Mojo2 EQ capabilities are sufficient to optimize many aspects of their sound.
But once we go into deep dives into EQ'ing speakers, there are simply way too many potential options. Even with software EQ in JRiver or Roon, I would say for every EQ setting that sounds nice to me, I've created 10 EQ settings that messed up the sound more than improves it. The problem is that when you have way too many parameters to tweak, you can easily tweak things for the worst, rather than for the better.
I determine my EQ settings using REW (and various windowing within REW/Acourate after taking measurements within Acourate), using specific frequency response targets. Hence, whatever EQ options Rob Watts offer, I plan to use REW to determine how to get my current speaker system as close to my preferred target and see if I enjoy the sound more than with the EQ from Roon. Another advantage for me would be that I currently don't get EQ from watching TV/movies.
Currently, if I were to turn off my Roon EQ, I can easily hear the improved soundstage depth (by like at least a feet) but there is simply too much bass resonance in my room to enjoy the music so I accept the compromise of loss in soundstage depth for a more even frequency response.
As I'm typing this, I reflect on all the gadgets I use regularly, e.g. iPhone, iPad, MacBook, Apple Watch, AirPods Pro, HomePod, car, vacuum cleaner, iron, and all the software such as Windows X and all the apps. Boy, do I have tons of user interface and feature requests I wish I can make and somebody would make them happen. As we all know, even with all the feedback we give, that almost never happens. I think whatever hardware and software we purchase and use, we are getting a vision of the product team/designer but we are also going to be limited by the compromises the product team/designer chose for us. We may not agree with these compromises but unless we are going out there and make our own products, such is life.
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 2:03 PM Post #4,543 of 4,651
Then you'll be happy to know that the Mojo2 has probably (imho) the best-sounding digital DAC EQ implemented to date. That is one serious little box, and will provide plenty of happiness for you. :)
I agree...I bought it two years ago, and haven't find any other better solution than this..and probably would stay that way until Hugo 4 come up.

Thanks btw for making me realise this
 
Mar 29, 2024 at 2:13 PM Post #4,544 of 4,651
I agree...I bought it two years ago, and haven't find any other better solution than this..and probably would stay that way until Hugo 4 come up.

Thanks btw for making me realise this
My pleasure!

(FWIW, my main system is the M-scaled Dave through very high-end studio monitors, and whenever I listen to the Mojo2, I'm like, "damn! This thing is really great! How'd he do this for $500?" (or whatever it costs now)
 
Mar 30, 2024 at 7:47 AM Post #4,545 of 4,651
Since my living room stereo definitely needs EQ and I am definitely buying the Quartet M Scaler, I would love to volunteer to beta test your pre-production unit in the middle of nowhere Canada. I don’t even mind paying Chord in full now and can exchange the production unit for the pre-production beta unit when it becomes available. Hahaha. One can dream.

Well, my pair of new speakers have been running for ~300hrs by now.

Now, it's time to integrate the speakers into the room.

I placed the speakers based on the manufacturer recommendation or those online guides.

I used track no 10, 11, 16, 18, 20 from Stereo Review: Gold Stereo & Surround Set Up - Compilation by Various Artists

I converted my stereo system to mono mode using the Y-cable.

The sounds should come from a single source. Well, you well be surprised!

I tuned the sounds not only from the single source, coherent, full and body. If the sounds were n't full and body, it indicated that low frequencies were lacking.

When I thought it's done, I reverted the +/- of one of the speakers to out-phase mode.

The sound should come from all over the place. Well, another surprise therefore I fine-turned the speakers until the sound came from almost all over the place.

I reverted the system to in-phase mono mode to confirm the outcome, much better now, and reverted it back to stereo mode to end the tuning.

What I'm trying to say is set up the foundation before proceeding to the next step, e.g. treat the room, EQ, upgrade, etc...

P/S: if the sweep from track 18 was smooth from top to bottom then the system would be well balanced.
 

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