[Reactcore]

Hello again ,I am neither South nor North really, but I managed to squeeze about two weeks of downhill skiing totally and locally ,out of this miserable winter where I live at the Northern End of our second biggest lake.
Stunning Evening Sky over it right now!
I have an HD 800 and a HEKV2 as main two headphones to alternate between depending on the recording. How did you modd your Qutest? Not surprised if the seller almost changed his mind after hearing Dave with an Mscaler. Imho all Mscaler capable dacs improve much with an Mscaler added.To my ears and with my preferences in music, 99% acoustic music, the Mscaler is THE deciding factor.
Even Dave can sound a bit too digital and harsh without it.
I am very keen to get to hear how much Mscaler X will improve SQ over the current model.

Cheers CC

I placed 2 caps directly over the + and - 8v power rails of Qutest to give it more current reserve to drive HP direct.. specially my HD800's 300 ohms works good on it.

Picture here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-qutest-dac-official-thread.869417/post-15399272

Did you also do a SD (Super Dupont) mod in your HD800's? it tames the 6k peak as in the HD800 'S' version. Exchanging the pads with thicker leather ones gave even better bass on them.

 

[Rob Watts]

I suppose it could be possible to generalise the design of DX amps, by giving each amp a configurable filter function:

• low pass
• band pass
• high pass

then for each filter slope, allow configuration of:

• crossover frequency
• slope (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th order)

To support 2-way, 3-way and 4-way speakers, each DX amp would have a DX output as well as a DX input. The amplifiers would then be daisy-chained using the DX connections, where all amplifiers receive the same output from the M Scaler or DAC.

So in a 3-way speaker setup, the first amp in the daisy chain can do treble, the next the midrange and then the final amp can do the bass. Daisy-chaining would also minimise the cable mess!

@Rob Watts what do you think about doing filtering to feed speakers in a passive bi-amp configuration? This would be where the speakers retain their internal crossovers, but there might be an advantage in improving the isolation of each driver from the other. e.g. your 803D3 speakers have bi-wire terminals. With two TT2s, one for bass and one for treble, you could bi-amp the speakers with a bit of carefully set up filtering. The digital filters wouldn't replicate the speaker's built-in crossover, but be further off, e.g. one octave higher for the bass low-pass.

Funny, I was thinking the same after posting - using bi-wiring ports to bi-amp with digital filtering makes a lot of sense. It would be easy for me to prototype too.

I guess not much as far as the commercial potential is concerned, and without any insight into such approaches, or actual benefits to be gained from them,my own personal preference is to try to AVOID crossover points and filters as much as possible in the first place?

That is imho one of the benefits of both good planar or electrostatic headphones AND speakers. Almost seamless reproduction from top to bottom. The more drivers involved the more problems to solve imho.

I may have mentioned it before but one of the most transparent speakers I have ever auditioned is still the almost, but not quite, full range ,ML electrostatic speaker XL ART which had no crossover point at all !
But it needed a subwoofer for really deep reaching bass intruments like double bass and organ.
Big electrostatic panels handled everything from above 20khz down to around 50hz.
Not quite enough for BIG Bach organ works like BWV 565 or Also Sprach Zarathustra and such ,but with a subwoofer added for such works a lot of good music could be played without any crossover filters needed.

Imho very few conventional speakers with up to three crossover points can compare with the transparency and effortless reproduction and lifelike soundstage of an electrostatic speaker with acoustic music.

My own compromise electrostatic speakers have one crossover point between electrostatic panels down to around 250hz and from there passive conventional bass drivers down to 32hz.
More modern MLs than mine use a class D active bass but to my ears do not sound better in the lower regions than old school passive ones. What was you impression on Romaz´s electrostatic 15A speakers in that respect?
A big problem with electrostatic speakers and bass is that the panels would have to be HUGE for really clean deep bass.
There are some by other makers ,but way too expensive for me, and even the XL ART is much more expensive than I am willing to pay for it new.
But I am keeping an eye out for second hand XL ART speakers. So far no luck. But there is currently a Dave for sale at a price that actually tempts me a bit. But only a bit. still not enough to bite. I am more interested in hearing what your upcoming Mscaler x will bring to the table SQ wise.
Meanwhile my current old ML Sequel II sound better and more transparent than many much more expensive conventional multi driver based speakers to me even with my humble Qutest Mscaler combo .
The benefits with the Sequel II being a very stable , pinpoint, quite big and transparent soundstage with reasonably good depth too. Although sometimes soundstage depth is where even a well recorded LP can still compete with Qutest/Mscaler imho.
And over most of the range the MLs also have low distortion levels until the conventional bass takes over from around 250hz.
I listen almost exclusively to unamplified acoustic instrumental music and the human voice both Western Classical and Asian and World music. Very rarely Western Pop genres music.
I never listen to RAP or HIP HOP or EDM!
And while I am on the "non grata" subject of musical taste , let me confess in my younger days ,yes I did go to the Disco sometimes, but I NEVER went there for the music , always played at ear damaging levels, but for entirely different reasons. And I always used both hearing protection and other protection when striking lucky!
Since my mid-teens ages ago,when I listen to music I do that ,ONLY that, and never anything else while doing so.

And although I also stream quite a lot of World Music via Youtube these days via Mscaler with its good SQ but annoying latency which forces me to close my eyes instead of watching, for example, Khatia Buniatishvili play so well. And I prefer to listen to whole works before turning my attention to other good music.
It was a bit surprising when I heard DAVE /Blu 2 via your laptop at Canjam in Singapore 2018 to see how random your music selection was.
This may sound very snobbish to many here , but random selection and shuffle is for kids imho.
Music is my ONE AND ONLY religion.

My musical attention span also extends for much longer than the average 4-5 minutes pop track demands, or like some old Rockers? here who apparently even use a Dave to listen to the Beatles or Johhny Cash in mono via Quad electrostatic speakers!
Nothing against the Beatles, but Johnny Cash is definitely NOT" my cup of tea".
I often listen to at least a whole act or even an entire Opera at night before going to sleep.
Wonderful way to wind down after a day to dive deep into a Mozart or Handel Opera for example .
Other nights I may choose an Indian Raga by Anoushka Shankar to wind down to.
Sorry about yet another VERY long winded and NOT politically correct post from CC.

PS.
I liked your first? attempt at recording unamplified acoustic instruments in a real venue without multimiking.
But I am still waiting for an answer from you regarding which ADC you actually used and what resolution the very short snippet was recorded at?
And I would also like to know how you feel about doing binaural recordings instead of resorting to crossfeed compromises for headphone listening?
Cheers Controversial Chris

The only time I have been knocked out by the sound of electrostatics loudspeakers was via a pair of stacked Quad ESL-57s (the original Quad). Having another one on top gave superb bass - no need for a sub at all. But the four Quads in a typical British living room (i.e. small) was somewhat intimidating!

And agreed, planer headphones does give a direct crossover free performance. I am more and more impressed with the sound of the DCA Stealths - just listening and enjoying music I often get caught out by how good the performance is. And having recordings where I was actually there gives a hugely valuable perspective as to which approach gives the most accurate sound - and the Stealth is certainly winning that challenge so far.

SE Asia is opening up - I am in Thailand at the moment, will be off to Singapore soon to do CanJam. On 1 April onwards you just need a certified lateral flow Covid test before departure and you just board the flight - no other restrictions. All SE Asia seem to be following this trend in opening up.

I am pleased you liked the first stab at recording. I did state which interface we used - it was a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. The ADC is a 192k 24 bit - earlier models used the CS4272 ADC chip. And 192k 24 bit is the final OP too.

Binaural recordings is not something high on my to do list, but it's perhaps something we will try in the future.

 

[Currawong]

I wish I could go to CanJam in SG. I had planned to go, but the problem is that Japan still has entry restrictions requiring that you not catch public transport after return. That means I'd have to at least drive from Osaka. Taiwan suddenly barred transit as well, so that knocked out a potential means to go there. It's very frustrating, as Singapore suddenly allowed entry to people from Japan from April 1.

 

[Christer]

Funny, I was thinking the same after posting - using bi-wiring ports to bi-amp with digital filtering makes a lot of sense. It would be easy for me to prototype too.



The only time I have been knocked out by the sound of electrostatics loudspeakers was via a pair of stacked Quad ESL-57s (the original Quad). Having another one on top gave superb bass - no need for a sub at all. But the four Quads in a typical British living room (i.e. small) was somewhat intimidating!

And agreed, planer headphones does give a direct crossover free performance. I am more and more impressed with the sound of the DCA Stealths - just listening and enjoying music I often get caught out by how good the performance is. And having recordings where I was actually there gives a hugely valuable perspective as to which approach gives the most accurate sound - and the Stealth is certainly winning that challenge so far.

SE Asia is opening up - I am in Thailand at the moment, will be off to Singapore soon to do CanJam. On 1 April onwards you just need a certified lateral flow Covid test before departure and you just board the flight - no other restrictions. All SE Asia seem to be following this trend in opening up.

I am pleased you liked the first stab at recording. I did state which interface we used - it was a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. The ADC is a 192k 24 bit - earlier models used the CS4272 ADC chip. And 192k 24 bit is the final OP too.

Binaural recordings is not something high on my to do list, but it's perhaps something we will try in the future.

Hello and thanks for your kind response to my questions.
Your memories of the orginal Quads bring back similar memories of stacked Quads in bigger rooms than an average British living room. As far as transparency was concerned they were THE standard in those days. But did they really go all the way down to 33hz stacked?
I used my electrostatic Jecklin Floats in the 70s for max transparency
But I went for big really big horn speakers for deeper bass ,but at the expense of some added colouration. But 30 watts per channel was enough to drive those huge black coffins . My Sequels need a lot more power for clean reasonably effortless climaxes .Hundreds of watts for a big Mahler climax.

But have you also heard the XL ART in a larger room ? Or any other contemporary full range electrostats?

I know Romaz later sold his 15A MLs and even my old Sequel II has slightly bigger E panels than the 15A and is taller than those. Mine stand 1,85 metres tall which allows me to listen with still good balance even standing at the other end of my smallish 35 sqm listening room
What did not impress me that much with the 15A was the active class D amplifiaction included in the 15As . But SQ from the panels was good when I heard them in Singapore at the Adelphi. But one had to sit down.
I must have missed which ADC you used.
I can be a bit of a sloppy reader at times as you already know.
Regarding the Stealth getting caught out by how good the music and performance are is the goal isn´t it?

Nice to hear that you are already in Thailand.
Bangkok or Phuket?
If Phuket I would also like to know where the Chord dealer is there.

Too late in the season for me ,and spring is already just around the corner here.

And it is also getting a bit too steamy in both places for me .
Around 34C and rain in Singapore currently. I used to stay there until early or mid April most winters for over 15 years in a row untl Covid struck.
I also see things seem to be opening up a bit in both countries in spite of new Omicron variants still speading there .
But I am at least still feebly hoping that I will not have to suffer through yet another dark miserable winter in Sweden again, providing the ongoing war does not make things even worse than Covid did.
And Phuket would most probably be where I would start from in Thailand.
I have some friends who live there permanently since a long time..
Imho for ultimate realism in headphone listening binaural is simply THE best and most realistic way to record. This after all Headfi!
There are a rising number of recordings made that way for obvious reasons.
Chesky and Channel Classics download sites seem to be leading the way.
And Jared Sacks has turned to DXD for some of his more recent recordings.
PS How is your Davina project progressing? Cheers CC

 

[rkt31]

@Rob Watts waterlily acoustics is one of the minimalistic recording technique label renowned for it's "a meeting by the river " album. It's almost all the recordings are done by blumlein mic technique.

 

[Christer]

@Rob Watts waterlily acoustics is one of the minimalistic recording technique label renowned for it's "a meeting by the river " album. It's almost all the recordings are done by blumlein mic technique.

Yes indeed, but when Kavi Alexander of Water Lily Records recorded a large symphony orchestra with simple Blumlein miking, those recordings where like quite a few similar ones during the late analogue era of direct cut LPs and simply miked recordings , NOT appreciated AT ALL by many AUDIOPHILES used to multimicked recordings with lots of post-processing and sweetening involved which they were used to hearing via their midfi systems.
It will be interesting indeed to hear what the response will be among the audiophile crowd here, to Rob´s hopefully upcoming Davina recordings.
Cheers CC

 

[rkt31]

Nahler

Yes indeed, but when Kavi Alexander of Water Lily Records recorded a large symphony orchestra with simple Blumlein miking, those recordings where like quite a few similar ones during the late analogue era of direct cut LPs and simply miked recordings , NOT appreciated AT ALL by many AUDIOPHILES used to multimicked recordings with lots of post-processing and sweetening involved which they were used to hearing via their midfi systems.
It will be interesting indeed to hear what the response will be among the audiophile crowd here, to Rob´s hopefully upcoming Davina recordings.
Cheers C

Yes indeed, but when Kavi Alexander of Water Lily Records recorded a large symphony orchestra with simple Blumlein miking, those recordings where like quite a few similar ones during the late analogue era of direct cut LPs and simply miked recordings , NOT appreciated AT ALL by many AUDIOPHILES used to multimicked recordings with lots of post-processing and sweetening involved which they were used to hearing via their midfi systems.
It will be interesting indeed to hear what the response will be among the audiophile crowd here, to Rob´s hopefully upcoming Davina recordings.
Cheers CC

Yes, I have cd files of Mahler 5th of waterlily acoustic. It was a dsd recording originally. Some say it is bright but to me it is very dynamic recording. Some issues of placement of instruments though, like one side sounds louder. Some other non orchestral recordings like a meeting by the river or saltanah and other rye cooder recordings are sublime. One can feel the venue and instruments like in front of you. These are analog tape recordings.

 

[Reactcore]

I wish I could go to CanJam in SG. I had planned to go, but the problem is that Japan still has entry restrictions requiring that you not catch public transport after return. That means I'd have to at least drive from Osaka. Taiwan suddenly barred transit as well, so that knocked out a potential means to go there. It's very frustrating, as Singapore suddenly allowed entry to people from Japan from April 1.

Will there ever come a Canjam near holland western europe.. england is closest sofar ive seen

 

[Currawong]

Will there ever come a Canjam near holland western europe.. england is closest sofar ive seen

You'd have to ask Jude or Ethan that. I wish that the Japanese shows would start again.

 

[433521]

Will there ever come a Canjam near holland western europe.. england is closest sofar ive seen

People in Europe have more sense than to spend several paychecks on earplugs.

 

[Kentajalli]

People in Europe have more sense than to spend several paychecks on earplugs.

With that school of thought, how on hell did you get over 1306 likes on Headfi??
P.S. err 1307 , you are welcome.

 

[feddar]

So, I decided on the Omega Junior Alnico XRS speakers to be driven directly off the HMS/TT2. Louis said he had a cabinet he had previously made out of ziricote and softwood MDF (I hope that is good, I don't know much about it), and so he could put a pair together for me over a week. It has now been shipped. I am eagerly awaiting...

I am left with the topic of speaker wires. I have Rob's recipe, and will try it later on, but first I will try to figure out speaker placement. Any suggestions of what I should look out for? I have never had good speakers before, only good headphones (Focal Utopia).

One speaker will have to be significantly closer to the TT2 than the other due to the layout of the room. Should the speaker wires be the same length? If so, can you just coil the extra wire on the one side?

Thanks yet again!

 

[Paul Bjernklo]

So, I decided on the Omega Junior Alnico XRS speakers to be driven directly off the HMS/TT2. Louis said he had a cabinet he had previously made out of ziricote and softwood MDF (I hope that is good, I don't know much about it), and so he could put a pair together for me over a week. It has now been shipped. I am eagerly awaiting...

I am left with the topic of speaker wires. I have Rob's recipe, and will try it later on, but first I will try to figure out speaker placement. Any suggestions of what I should look out for? I have never had good speakers before, only good headphones (Focal Utopia).

One speaker will have to be significantly closer to the TT2 than the other due to the layout of the room. Should the speaker wires be the same length? If so, can you just coil the extra wire on the one side?

Thanks yet again!

Hi Feddar, speaker wire should be (has to be) the same length and as short as possible. Don’t coil it if possible and make larger looms somehow.

I have not tried Rob Watts speaker cable recipe yet, mostly due to not knowing what and from where to source the stuff. If anyone have suggestions what and where to buy the stuff from (I live in the UK), that would be appreciated!

I have researched brand solid core cables and thought about buying DNM solid core speaker cable, but bought some “cheap” AudioQuest FLX/SLiP 14/4 cables (these are
semi solid core, “semi budget” test winner - Hi-Fi Choice) to try between my Benchmark AHB2 power amplifier with Magneplan LRS (magnetostatic ribbon) speakers. Unusual combination but works for me (excellent sound with Hugo2 as dac/pre-amp)!

I have tried to minimise distortion in my system end to end and still prefer a proper CD transport, a Cyrus CDT Signature, as source.

PS: Re speaker placement depends on your room size, layout etc. Hopefully the manual has some recommendations or search for reviews

 

[feddar]

Thanks for the ideas. What do you mean by making larger looms? One speaker will be 6ft from the TT2, and the other 20 ft away.

 

[Paul Bjernklo]

Thanks for the ideas. What do you mean by making larger looms? One speaker will be 6ft from the TT2, and the other 20 ft away.

PM sent, no easy solution, I meant more leaving cable in curves, others may have better suggestions but depends on room layout. Some will say put TT2 in the middle to keep speaker cable short, but may not be possible for you. Some may say ok to have different cable lenghts, but i have never seen it recommended and also makes them very difficult to sell