[TDHEAD]

How would you generally characterize the difference between the Aperio and the Lina stack (with clock?)?

And sorry if this has already been asked but what is your source?

I actually have the Bartok and the Bravura.

Thank you!

I had the Bartok with the HP amp. At that time I wanted to have Susvara cans and the Bartok before the Apex upgrade did not do Susvara well. I then I went to lina Stack with the clock . As I mentioned Aperio is an E-Stat which has its own set of characteristics . I enjoyed them both. The Aperio is IMO is at another level, much more detailed sounding like your in the studio with the musicians ( in fact it was designed to use by studio professionals as it explains in its marketing materials.) Again what you listen to and like will inform how much you enjoy their presentation. Like most E-Stats it's not for bass heads ( bass is excellent BTW ) Just not aimed at bass head type levels,

 

[smodtactical]

Sure, I can add some progressive rock & opera as well


Indeed, it was very hard to shorten my list, but keeping it at just 20 really helps when comparing. It's also a good sign when I'm enjoying the songs as much as the first time (after all I'm listening to just 20 songs ~12hrs a day for weeks)

So the Bravura headset and Sonoma system came in today, much earlier than anticipated, and my first impressions of Bravura are very... mixed
Keep in mind these are just a first impression(~3hrs) on mostly pop adjacent music, so it might change:
detail retrieval: Bravura >= LCD-5 >= Susvara
soundstage: Susvara >> Bravura == LCD-5
imaging: LCD-5 >= Susvara >> Bravura
natural tone: Susvara >> LCD-5 >> Bravura
bass impact: LCD-5 >> Susvara >> Bravura
bass texture: LCD-5 >= Bravura >> Susvara
vocal texture: Susvara >> LCD-5 == Bravura

Detail-wise nothing touches Bravura, but my surprise was it didn't image as well as LCD-5 or Susvara to my ears. Perhaps my opinion will change after listening longterm. The other surprise: the sheer resolution and separation on Bravura made it very enjoyable to listen to Metal. (Not that I normally listen to Metal)

Important notes: Chain for other HP is iBasso dx320 (ROHM dac thru line out on new AMP12exn-s) -> iFi 4.4 to XLR cable -> iFi pro iCan signature (solid state) -> Susvara: stock cable -- LCD-5: ZMF OFC cable (I usually use a Viking weave ansuz cable on my LCD-5, which somehow improves soundstage, imaging, and tone slightly)

For the full review, I'll also add a "by genre" comparison: (this will include Atrium and Utopia)
vocal heavy pop
"trashy" pop
hiphop
metal
progressive rock
opera
orchestra
classical
choral and a capella
any other genres?

Updated in green!

I wonder if sus and lcd5 will pull ahead even more with a better amp then the ifi ?

 

[squashi]

Interesting as I currently have an Aperio in Auction on Audiogon running for a couple more days. I will paste below the review of my honest experience with Aperio on line at a customer site. I think it expresses what I feel about it and may answer some of your thoughts about it. I have had a 1266 twice in the last couple of years with different chains. I also loved 1266 especially on my Lina Stack. I don't know if you have ever heard Susvara which I also had. Aperio is like an E-Stat version of a Susvara but on steroids it includes a Dac, Amp and Streamer , energizer and headphones and all the cables in one unit. As I mention in my review comments below. If you enjoy critical listening you won't do much better than Aperio at any price again IMO. If that's not your musical taste you may not as much as it is different in its presentation. Most units at this level are no longer a question of better or worse but each has a different approach to their presentation. Either system is some of the best listening experiences I have had and I have been into audio for six decades. Mostly two channel until the last five years. The Aperio Performance quality is unique experience . Please understand as an E-Stat however a different experience in presentation than Planars.............So if you understand that distinction and like the presentation of E-Stats , The Aperio IMO is a TOTL experience that is somewhat unique. Enjoy researching . There is really no bad choice at this level with the units you are looking at. Just your preferences in music listening.

Aperio- Everything else works backwards from here...................​

Imagine starting to research your music system purchase. You start reading about all the TOTL Dac, Amp, Streamers, Headphones, cables etc in consideration of assembling your audio system. You want it to be Highly transparent and neutral. You want what the musicians created the way they created it. You want to be in the room with them when they record their sound. Well then you want "Aperio" What's amazing here is all that is in one of the most compact, efficient audio components on the market today. Aperio's signature leans analytical in presentation. That said know that Aperio has the ability to provide you with listening sessions that at times you know you are hearing your music in ways you have never experienced before. You can actually become transcended into an almost out of body experience when deep into a listening session. ( not an exaggeration) . IMO Aperio is the TOTL critical listening experience. (Only you know if that's your thing or not). So when you consider the cost of Aperio, remember all the system offers in one compact audio piece. If this type of performance sounds like your music listening preference, you will not be disappointed. In fact IMO Aperio is the type of component you will want to hand down in the family to your next generation Audiophile. You just get that feeling that Audiophiles years into the future will still be referencing Aperio. It's quite a unique and extraordinary music listening experience.







I

I am so tempted to pick up that Aperio for that price. But a little worried about if it'll suit me: (This might be me justifying to not to buy it)
- I tend to prefer a more midforward sound and Aperio isn't as midforward as my other HP
- Will I really care for that extra resolution? (I listen to music while working from home, never just critical listening)
- Can't use around the around the house with DAP like with LCD-5/Atrium
- Will it be able to do bass as well as my LCD-5?
- Save ~$18k for a future 2 channel?
For whomever does pick that up, please enjoy it (if they are from here)

I wonder if sus and lcd5 will pull ahead even more with a better amp then the ifi ?

I don't think Susvara & LCD-5 "pulled ahead" in the first place we are talking about differences where one's preferences in sound will determine which differences matter to them

That being said Susvara will certainly improve with a better amp, especially in bass
LCD-5 end game setups is usually just a very nice DAC, (more about amp pairing than amp "upgrade" with LCD-5)

Also another note about LCD-5: For me, LCD-5 either needs a proper chain or EQ to change the tonality for my preferences. For the sake of these comparisons I am comparing a "EQ'd" LCD-5. (I usually use a cable but no EQ, but want to keep the cables "even" when comparing to other headsets. Somehow that cable also improves soundstage, still baffled by the science of that)

And worth noting while my DAC is just a DAP (ROHM chip in dx320), I have a modded amp12exn-s module with upgraded capacitors which affect the lineout. (I have compared the stock and modded module: The modded has much more details than stock) I haven't compared other DACs or AMPs for long enough to make an accurate judgement on how good what I have is.

Some other notes about Bravura:
- Soundstage varies more than any other headset I have tried: bass light tracks it can feel more expansive than Susvara, but on bass heavy tracks it seems to shrink to LCD-5 levels,
- Very high bass impacts seem to "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds, honestly I don't mind
- I stand by the imaging not being as good as LCD-5 & Susvara. Relatedly, I can feel more "immersed" and "surrounded" by some tracks in LCD-5 and Susvara. It's hard to quantify how much "worse" the imaging is, but put another way, I personally find the detail improvement in Bravura much greater than what is lost in imaging.
- Detail and resolution is a full notch above Susvara (LCD-5 falls right in the middle). For context Utopia-> Susvara is similar to Susvara->Bravura in terms of resolution improvement.
- I also stand by Susvara having better voice texture than Bravura, but Bravura does put the vocals a bit more to the front overall.

Since many people like to compare to Susvara- Bravura vs "budget amped" Susvara:
- Susvara has more bass punch (But would recommend EQ'd HEKSE or LCD-5 for more bass punch in this price range, or something Abyss if you don't need natural mids)
- Susvara is a bit more natural with better vocal texture, but it's all much more relaxed than Bravura. Bravura keeps vocals forward and is overall more energetic (but not nearly as energetic as LCD-5).
- Susvara images a bit better, can feel like you are more "lost in the music" in some tracks
- Susvara has a more consistently wide soundstage, but I find Bravura to be wide on most tracks I care for a wide stage.
- Bravura has much better bass texture, much better than Susvara.
- Bravura is much more detailed and separated than Susvara
- I personally slightly prefer Bravura over Susvara, the Bravura resolution and bass texture outweighs what Susvara brings for the majority of my tracks.

(I'll get to the full review with different genres and more headset comparisons sometime next week)

 

[vonBaron]

Sure, I can add some progressive rock & opera as well


Indeed, it was very hard to shorten my list, but keeping it at just 20 really helps when comparing. It's also a good sign when I'm enjoying the songs as much as the first time (after all I'm listening to just 20 songs ~12hrs a day for weeks)

So the Bravura headset and Sonoma system came in today, much earlier than anticipated, and my first impressions of Bravura are very... mixed
Keep in mind these are just a first impression(~3hrs) on mostly pop adjacent music, so it might change:
detail retrieval: Bravura >= LCD-5 >= Susvara
soundstage: Susvara >> LCD-5 (Bravura has VARIABLE soundstage, bass heavier tracks similar to like LCD-5, airy tracks stage bigger than Susvara)
imaging: LCD-5 >= Susvara >= Bravura
natural tone: Susvara >> LCD-5 >> Bravura
bass impact: LCD-5 >> Susvara >> Bravura
bass texture: LCD-5 >= Bravura >> Susvara
vocal texture: Susvara >> LCD-5 == Bravura

Detail-wise nothing touches Bravura, but my surprise was it didn't image as well as LCD-5 or Susvara to my ears. Perhaps my opinion will change after listening longterm. The other surprise: the sheer resolution and separation on Bravura made it very enjoyable to listen to Metal. (Not that I normally listen to Metal)

Important notes: Chain for other HP is iBasso dx320 (ROHM dac thru line out on new AMP12exn-s) -> iFi 4.4 to XLR cable -> iFi pro iCan signature (solid state) -> Susvara: stock cable -- LCD-5: ZMF OFC cable (I usually use a Viking weave ansuz cable on my LCD-5, which somehow improves soundstage, imaging, and tone slightly)

For the full review, I'll also add a "by genre" comparison: (this will include Atrium and Utopia)
vocal heavy pop
"trashy" pop
hiphop
metal
progressive rock
opera
orchestra
classical
choral and a capella
any other genres?

Updated in green!

I think Bravura is best ES for metal music.

 

[TDHEAD]

I am so tempted to pick up that Aperio for that price. But a little worried about if it'll suit me: (This might be me justifying to not to buy it)
- I tend to prefer a more midforward sound and Aperio isn't as midforward as my other HP
- Will I really care for that extra resolution? (I listen to music while working from home, never just critical listening)
- Can't use around the around the house with DAP like with LCD-5/Atrium
- Will it be able to do bass as well as my LCD-5?
- Save ~$18k for a future 2 channel?
For whomever does pick that up, please enjoy it (if they are from here)

I don't think Susvara & LCD-5 "pulled ahead" in the first place we are talking about differences where one's preferences in sound will determine which differences matter to them

That being said Susvara will certainly improve with a better amp, especially in bass
LCD-5 end game setups is usually just a very nice DAC, (more about amp pairing than amp "upgrade" with LCD-5)

Also another note about LCD-5: For me, LCD-5 either needs a proper chain or EQ to change the tonality for my preferences. For the sake of these comparisons I am comparing a "EQ'd" LCD-5. (I usually use a cable but no EQ, but want to keep the cables "even" when comparing to other headsets. Somehow that cable also improves soundstage, still baffled by the science of that)

And worth noting while my DAC is just a DAP (ROHM chip in dx320), I have a modded amp12exn-s module with upgraded capacitors which affect the lineout. (I have compared the stock and modded module: The modded has much more details than stock) I haven't compared other DACs or AMPs for long enough to make an accurate judgement on how good what I have is.

Some other notes about Bravura:
- Soundstage varies more than any other headset I have tried: bass light tracks it can feel more expansive than Susvara, but on bass heavy tracks it seems to shrink to LCD-5 levels,
- Very high bass impacts seem to "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds, honestly I don't mind
- I stand by the imaging not being as good as LCD-5 & Susvara. Relatedly, I can feel more "immersed" and "surrounded" by some tracks in LCD-5 and Susvara. It's hard to quantify how much "worse" the imaging is, but put another way, I personally find the detail improvement in Bravura much greater than what is lost in imaging.
- Detail and resolution is a full notch above Susvara (LCD-5 falls right in the middle). For context Utopia-> Susvara is similar to Susvara->Bravura in terms of resolution improvement.
- I also stand by Susvara having better voice texture than Bravura, but Bravura does put the vocals a bit more to the front overall.

Since many people like to compare to Susvara- Bravura vs "budget amped" Susvara:
- Susvara has more bass punch (But would recommend EQ'd HEKSE or LCD-5 for more bass punch in this price range, or something Abyss if you don't need natural mids)
- Susvara is a bit more natural with better vocal texture, but it's all much more relaxed than Bravura. Bravura keeps vocals forward and is overall more energetic (but not nearly as energetic as LCD-5).
- Susvara images a bit better, can feel like you are more "lost in the music" in some tracks
- Susvara has a more consistently wide soundstage, but I find Bravura to be wide on most tracks I care for a wide stage.
- Bravura has much better bass texture, much better than Susvara.
- Bravura is much more detailed and separated than Susvara
- I personally slightly prefer Bravura over Susvara, the Bravura resolution and bass texture outweighs what Susvara brings for the majority of my tracks.

(I'll get to the full review with different genres and more headset comparisons sometime next week)

Given your concerns I don't thing in the end Aperio will be satisfying for you. It is outstanding but you won't get planar type Bass from it if that's what you are looking for. My advise is to not buy a E-Stat from the what sounds like you are looking for. Thanks for the interest, regards

 

[Purzel]

I think Bravura is best ES for metal music.

I think the same. Bravura’s are great for metal especially progressive rock metal (Steven Wilson, tool, Dream Theater, Soen, Porcupine, Rush, Opeth etc.). much speed and great instrument separation the mids are shining. soundstage is average in my opinion(others like Susvara does it better in my memory). but for the buck nothing out beats the Bravura’s. it’s just a complete package which works well with all genre’s. if your a jazz or chamber music lover they are impressive in my opinion.

 

[Leto Dal]

Anyone tried Bravura or Aperio A/B vs Caldera?

 

[Aetherhole]

I am so tempted to pick up that Aperio for that price. But a little worried about if it'll suit me: (This might be me justifying to not to buy it)
- I tend to prefer a more midforward sound and Aperio isn't as midforward as my other HP
- Will I really care for that extra resolution? (I listen to music while working from home, never just critical listening)
- Can't use around the around the house with DAP like with LCD-5/Atrium
- Will it be able to do bass as well as my LCD-5?
- Save ~$18k for a future 2 channel?
For whomever does pick that up, please enjoy it (if they are from here)

I don't think Susvara & LCD-5 "pulled ahead" in the first place we are talking about differences where one's preferences in sound will determine which differences matter to them

That being said Susvara will certainly improve with a better amp, especially in bass
LCD-5 end game setups is usually just a very nice DAC, (more about amp pairing than amp "upgrade" with LCD-5)

Also another note about LCD-5: For me, LCD-5 either needs a proper chain or EQ to change the tonality for my preferences. For the sake of these comparisons I am comparing a "EQ'd" LCD-5. (I usually use a cable but no EQ, but want to keep the cables "even" when comparing to other headsets. Somehow that cable also improves soundstage, still baffled by the science of that)

And worth noting while my DAC is just a DAP (ROHM chip in dx320), I have a modded amp12exn-s module with upgraded capacitors which affect the lineout. (I have compared the stock and modded module: The modded has much more details than stock) I haven't compared other DACs or AMPs for long enough to make an accurate judgement on how good what I have is.

Some other notes about Bravura:
- Soundstage varies more than any other headset I have tried: bass light tracks it can feel more expansive than Susvara, but on bass heavy tracks it seems to shrink to LCD-5 levels,
- Very high bass impacts seem to "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds, honestly I don't mind
- I stand by the imaging not being as good as LCD-5 & Susvara. Relatedly, I can feel more "immersed" and "surrounded" by some tracks in LCD-5 and Susvara. It's hard to quantify how much "worse" the imaging is, but put another way, I personally find the detail improvement in Bravura much greater than what is lost in imaging.
- Detail and resolution is a full notch above Susvara (LCD-5 falls right in the middle). For context Utopia-> Susvara is similar to Susvara->Bravura in terms of resolution improvement.
- I also stand by Susvara having better voice texture than Bravura, but Bravura does put the vocals a bit more to the front overall.

Since many people like to compare to Susvara- Bravura vs "budget amped" Susvara:
- Susvara has more bass punch (But would recommend EQ'd HEKSE or LCD-5 for more bass punch in this price range, or something Abyss if you don't need natural mids)
- Susvara is a bit more natural with better vocal texture, but it's all much more relaxed than Bravura. Bravura keeps vocals forward and is overall more energetic (but not nearly as energetic as LCD-5).
- Susvara images a bit better, can feel like you are more "lost in the music" in some tracks
- Susvara has a more consistently wide soundstage, but I find Bravura to be wide on most tracks I care for a wide stage.
- Bravura has much better bass texture, much better than Susvara.
- Bravura is much more detailed and separated than Susvara
- I personally slightly prefer Bravura over Susvara, the Bravura resolution and bass texture outweighs what Susvara brings for the majority of my tracks.

(I'll get to the full review with different genres and more headset comparisons sometime next week)

Great thoughts so far. The things you describe about the Bravura vs Susvara are interesting. Susvara are certainly more capable in dynamics (if properly amped). I think the forward vocals can collapse the sound stage in some regard. It’s interesting though, I find that central vocals can be intimate sounding, while backup instrumentation can sound very wide at the very same time. It’s strange (for me, something I welcome), but I’ve not heard that with other headphones I’ve tried. It’s either intimate OR wide soundstage, not both at the same time.

Your last statement of the Bravura’s resolution and bass texture is what keeps me coming back to listening more and more. It’s phenomenal. I had the Susvara paired with the Ferrum Oor, Hypsos, and the Ferrum Erco for the DAC (Wandla wasn’t out yet). That stack put the valued right around the $10k price point and I still am happier with the sound of the $6k Bravura/Sonoma.

 

[tdx]

If anyone wants an Aperio at bravura pricing:

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650030076-warwick-accoustic-aperio/

 

[FlyingFungus]

Having heard the Sennheiser HE-1 today and being absolutely blown away by them (and declaring them the greatest headphone ever made)...I am definitely curious and interested in listening to the Aperio! And the Bravura as well for that matter

 

[Aetherhole]

The Aperio is different than the HE-1, but not better necessarily. At that level, it’s going to be more preferential than anything. I prefer the sound signature of the Aperio more, but the HE-1 is absolutely fantastic in its own right. As a statement piece and a collection, I absolutely would love to have the HE-1 and could listen to those all day. The Bravura is not as good in most technical regards, but I ended up liking the vocal tuning of the Bravura more than the Aperio or HE-1. Really, those are the three headphones that I heard at So Cal Can Jam that ended up wowing me the most. Truthfully, they are the only ones that involuntarily made me smile.

 

[squashi]

Great thoughts so far. The things you describe about the Bravura vs Susvara are interesting. Susvara are certainly more capable in dynamics (if properly amped). I think the forward vocals can collapse the sound stage in some regard. It’s interesting though, I find that central vocals can be intimate sounding, while backup instrumentation can sound very wide at the very same time. It’s strange (for me, something I welcome), but I’ve not heard that with other headphones I’ve tried. It’s either intimate OR wide soundstage, not both at the same time.

Your last statement of the Bravura’s resolution and bass texture is what keeps me coming back to listening more and more. It’s phenomenal. I had the Susvara paired with the Ferrum Oor, Hypsos, and the Ferrum Erco for the DAC (Wandla wasn’t out yet). That stack put the valued right around the $10k price point and I still am happier with the sound of the $6k Bravura/Sonoma.

I'm sure my "budget" Susvara can scale better, going to go to a audio shop tomorrow to try some speaker amps and chord DAC's (also to try with LCD-5). I'll bring Bravura as my reference

Bravura resolution is something else, undoubtedly better than "budget" Susvara and slightly better than LCD-5, but very curious if a dave + mscaler can help LCD-5 reach bravura in terms of resolution and separation. Since I already prefer the bass and imaging of the LCD-5 would be very curious to hear how much it would differ to Bravura

I think worth noting that my "budget" Susvara chain (approximating my dac) would cost ~$7k in open box pricing vs ~5k for the Bravura in open box pricing, yet I clearly prefer Bravura overall.

 

[Gowry]

Detail-wise nothing touches Bravura, but my surprise was it didn't image as well as LCD-5 or Susvara to my ears. Perhaps my opinion will change after listening longterm. The other surprise: the sheer resolution and separation on Bravura made it very enjoyable to listen to Metal. (Not that I normally listen to Metal)

I don't always use crossfeed, but I found with the Bravura that it gave them a more speaker-like presentation and the effect was more noticeable than with other headphones.

 

[Aetherhole]

I'm sure my "budget" Susvara can scale better, going to go to a audio shop tomorrow to try some speaker amps and chord DAC's (also to try with LCD-5). I'll bring Bravura as my reference

Bravura resolution is something else, undoubtedly better than "budget" Susvara and slightly better than LCD-5, but very curious if a dave + mscaler can help LCD-5 reach bravura in terms of resolution and separation. Since I already prefer the bass and imaging of the LCD-5 would be very curious to hear how much it would differ to Bravura

I think worth noting that my "budget" Susvara chain (approximating my dac) would cost ~$7k in open box pricing vs ~5k for the Bravura in open box pricing, yet I clearly prefer Bravura overall.

So how did your listening session at the audio shop go?

I’m guessing the Dave and MScaler will make a sizable difference. I really like the Chord house sound. Only heard the Dave and MScaler a little bit, but I really enjoyed the combo pairing. Though, still curious to hear if it is capable of meeting or even besting the Bravura in resolution and separation.

The great thing about the Susvara is the scalability and customizability. I’ve heard speaker amps are the way to go, especially for getting maximum potential out of the Susvara. I never delved into that and that was part of my problem, no matter the changes I made to the chain, it just seemed to require more and more and just never was quite right for me, in one way or another. I guess at this point in my life, I don’t need more complications and crave simplicity more. Bravura + Sonoma achieves that and sonically fits my needs at the same time.

 

[FlyingFungus]

The Aperio is different than the HE-1, but not better necessarily. At that level, it’s going to be more preferential than anything. I prefer the sound signature of the Aperio more, but the HE-1 is absolutely fantastic in its own right. As a statement piece and a collection, I absolutely would love to have the HE-1 and could listen to those all day. The Bravura is not as good in most technical regards, but I ended up liking the vocal tuning of the Bravura more than the Aperio or HE-1. Really, those are the three headphones that I heard at So Cal Can Jam that ended up wowing me the most. Truthfully, they are the only ones that involuntarily made me smile.

Appreciate the insight! I definitely want to hear both the Aperio and Bravura. If I won the lottery I'd buy them both plus the HE-1...just because haha!