VZR Model One

[RPGWiZaRD]

You nailed it. We both took interest in the Mobius/Ora/Taction for the same reasons. I finally found the thing that delivers on everything. You’re so going to love these things when the time comes. I can’t wait to hear your impressions!

Hope so. Mobius disappointed me in terms of soundstaging, it was a very in-your-head sound and the bass punchiness & impact was lacking but otherwise quite decent, not quite the ideal "softer" highs texture I'm looking for perhaps, didn't like having to use a usb cable also when running off 3.5mm port. Ora while quite okay isn't really minblowing in any way (for me the best aspect was perhaps bass response was quite tight and detailed), maybe slightly overpriced as far as normal pricing goes, at indiegogo early bird pricing I'd give it "decent" stamp. Taction while I enjoy the tactile vibration which Q40 does naturally (the cups vibrate and brings that addition to the bass response which makes it exciting when you feel it vibrating) the Taction had various amounts of vibration depending on frequency which didn't work great with hardstyle that peaks with various frequencies in bass, otherwise it was quite decent but wasn't the most detailed, EQing could help it somewhat but having to run 2 cables isn't quite my thing.

I can't understand how this M-Audio Q40 works so great for me, perhaps the person who engineered it must have had the same physical ears as me or something but I hear no big weaknesses in it, it does everything at least decent and that's hard to find when you limit to more harder punching bass response headphones.

 

[AlwaysForward]

Hope so. Mobius disappointed me in terms of soundstaging, it was a very in-your-head sound and the bass punchiness & impact was lacking but otherwise quite decent, not quite the ideal "softer" highs texture I'm looking for perhaps, didn't like having to use a usb cable also when running off 3.5mm port. Ora while quite okay isn't really minblowing in any way (for me the best aspect was perhaps bass response was quite tight and detailed), maybe slightly overpriced as far as normal pricing goes, at indiegogo early bird pricing I'd give it "decent" stamp. Taction while I enjoy the tactile vibration which Q40 does naturally (the cups vibrate and brings that addition to the bass response which makes it exciting when you feel it vibrating) the Taction had various amounts of vibration depending on frequency which didn't work great with hardstyle that peaks with various frequencies in bass, otherwise it was quite decent but wasn't the most detailed, EQing could help it somewhat but having to run 2 cables isn't quite my thing.

I can't understand how this M-Audio Q40 works so great for me, perhaps the person who engineered it must have had the same physical ears as me or something but I hear no big weaknesses in it, it does everything at least decent and that's hard to find when you limit to more harder punching bass response headphones.

I haven’t tried the Taction. I couldn’t get over how the execution seemed to not quite realize the potential of the concept.

The Ora & Mobius also suffered from execution issues. With the Ora, the tuning is wonky. I actually cannot listen to mine, it flares up my tinnitus way too much. I think it’s a upper presence peak and the low treble relaxation that causes it to need too much SPL to be enjoyable. The Mobius has a noise floor that I helped bring down as the first head-fi’er to post impressions but even the fix is not a black background.

Yes, these have a smooth yet perfectly clear treble region. And a massive, holographic, soundstage. If you look at the patent, you can see that the bass is routed to give information to the back of your ear. I think this may contribute to how a reference bass tuning is able to slam harder with a subwoofer like experience than a boosted bass in a direct firing driver can. It’s sending you the information that you get from environmentally expected bass sound, resulting in a true subwoofer style perception.

 

[Youcan1]

Hope so. Mobius disappointed me in terms of soundstaging, it was a very in-your-head sound and the bass punchiness & impact was lacking but otherwise quite decent, not quite the ideal "softer" highs texture I'm looking for perhaps, didn't like having to use a usb cable also when running off 3.5mm port. Ora while quite okay isn't really minblowing in any way (for me the best aspect was perhaps bass response was quite tight and detailed), maybe slightly overpriced as far as normal pricing goes, at indiegogo early bird pricing I'd give it "decent" stamp. Taction while I enjoy the tactile vibration which Q40 does naturally (the cups vibrate and brings that addition to the bass response which makes it exciting when you feel it vibrating) the Taction had various amounts of vibration depending on frequency which didn't work great with hardstyle that peaks with various frequencies in bass, otherwise it was quite decent but wasn't the most detailed, EQing could help it somewhat but having to run 2 cables isn't quite my thing.

The VZR soundstage is good for a closed back for sure. I wouldn't call the bass tight and punchy however. It leans toward the slower, boomy side, especially in comparison to decent planars and more dynamic headphones like Focal. Definitely a more relaxed presentation and I find they struggled with faster music. My favorite way to listen to them was honestly on the Creative dongle with dynamic mode on. I'm not sure what dynamic mode does specifically but it definitely cleaned the VZR up in my opinion for a more satisfying listen.

 

[AlwaysForward]

The VZR soundstage is good for a closed back for sure. I wouldn't call the bass tight and punchy however. It leans toward the slower, boomy side, especially in comparison to decent planars and more dynamic headphones like Focal. Definitely a more relaxed presentation and I find they struggled with faster music. My favorite way to listen to them was honestly on the Creative dongle with dynamic mode on. I'm not sure what dynamic mode does specifically but it definitely cleaned the VZR up in my opinion for a more satisfying listen.

I take it you’re comparing with open backs?

 

[Youcan1]

I take it you’re comparing with open backs?

Closed and open. Which is fair considering these are basically sold as having a more natural, open sounding presentation compared to other closed back gaming headphones. And they succeed at that for sure compared to other headphones at the same price level. The only thing that doesn't apply to is the bass. The Fidelio X2 is the only open back I've heard that has bass that comes close to this.

 

[561915]

Closed and open. Which is fair considering these are basically sold as having a more natural, open sounding presentation compared to other closed back gaming headphones. And they succeed at that for sure compared to other headphones at the same price level.

I think the VZRs perform extremely well in their class. Obviously once you start comparing them to TOTL headphones they seem less impressive. $350 VZRs vs. $800+ on some Focal cans that will probably sound about 20% better at most, the VZRs sound more like a solid deal especially compared to the gamut of “gaming” headphones available. I would especially say for movies, VZRs is sometimes more immersive than a full home theater system depending on the movie.

 

[AlwaysForward]

Closed and open. Which is fair considering these are basically sold as having a more natural, open sounding presentation compared to other closed back gaming headphones. And they succeed at that for sure compared to other headphones at the same price level.

Disagreed.

If you look at the Stealth reviews, you’ll see that people note that compared with XYZ open set, they are remarkably open but it’s not quite fair to 1:1. (paraphrasing a theme).

Additionally the bass shelf, or lack thereof, in most open backs is presenting less bass information than we expect from live sound. This makes a significant impact on psychoacoustic perception. If we take the HD800, any focal or any planar, we need to apply a compensation curve to bring the respective frequency response from limp to closer to live sound. That limp(flat, no shelf, sub dropoff) curve creates a false perception of speed and increased soundstage. When we apply a well designed compensation curve, it will make an HD800 sound much less wide. Making the bass image more prominent not only narrows the perception of a soundstage image, it brings the true transient performance of a headphones bass region into a reference tuning that enables some semblance of a direct transient performance comparison.

I doubt that you are using curves and have considered this. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Youcan1]

I think the VZRs perform extremely well in their class. Obviously once you start comparing them to TOTL headphones they seem less impressive. $350 VZRs vs. $800+ on some Focal cans that will probably sound about 20% better at most, the VZRs sound more like a solid deal especially compared to the gamut of “gaming” headphones available. I would especially say for movies, VZRs is sometimes more immersive than a full home theater system depending on the movie.

The first sentence is exactly the thing I've been saying all along. In case people forgot I'm the one who started this thread because I was impressed that I finally found a gaming headphone that can actually compete with more "reference" headphones in it's price range. I'm comparing them to a headphone that you can get regularly for $379.99 now and 20% is a very noticeable difference. The VZR sound good with movies but they can't match even with my modest 5.1 setup. AlwaysForward is the one claiming that these are giant killers, and he's certainly free to have that opinion, but I don't agree with it.

Disagreed.

If you look at the Stealth reviews, you’ll see that people note that compared with XYZ open set, they are remarkably open but it’s not quite fair to 1:1. (paraphrasing a theme).

Additionally the bass shelf, or lack thereof, in most open backs is presenting less bass information than we expect from live sound. This makes a significant impact on psychoacoustic perception. If we take the HD800, any focal or any planar, we need to apply a compensation curve to bring the respective frequency response from limp to closer to live sound. That limp(flat, no shelf, sub dropoff) curve creates a false perception of speed and increased soundstage. When we apply a well designed compensation curve, it will make an HD800 sound much less wide. Making the bass image more prominent not only narrows the perception of a soundstage image, it brings the true transient performance of a headphones bass region into a reference tuning that enables some semblance of a direct transient performance comparison.

I doubt that you are using curves and have considered this. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

The Fidelio X2 are warm and bass heavy and they are very wide sounding headphones (probably wider than the VZR though I haven't heard them in years). The Edition XS also has a great sub-bass punch and are more open/natural/dynamic sounding than the VZR. I am mildly aware of those points but it's irrelevant, and it's not just the bass information, it's the pressure and reflections that hinder closed backs and make them sound unnatural. I've used EQ and preset modes on all headphones to try different signatures and I said in my previous post I listened to these mostly with a sound mode that I believe has a W shaped EQ that definitely helped but they still didn't match the other headphones I use.

 

[561915]

The first sentence is exactly the thing I've been saying all along. In case people forgot I'm the one who started this thread because I was impressed that I finally found a gaming headphone that can actually compete with more "reference" headphones in it's price range. I'm comparing them to a headphone that you can get regularly for $379.99 now and 20% is a very noticeable difference. The VZR sound good with movies but they can't match even with my modest 5.1 setup. AlwaysForward is the one claiming that these are giant killers, and he's certainly free to have that opinion, but I don't agree with it.

Which $380 headphone are you comparing it to? I have a 5.1 system as well and sometimes will connect the Qudelix (they work great balanced too) to the Apple TV just to use the headphones. This is pretty impressive to me considering that a decent subwoofer (just the “.1” part) will run you back $400-$500. I think a bass transducer into whatever you’re sitting on + VZRs would blow quite a few 5.1 systems away.

 

[AlwaysForward]

Which $380 headphone are you comparing it to?

Yeah same. Very hand wavey.

 

[Youcan1]

Which $380 headphone are you comparing it to?

The Focal Elegia that has been on sale at Adorama for basically years now. If we were talking the Celestee at $999 or something then I would agree get the VZR and save the money. Note that the VZR has better build quality and some might prefer the more bass heavy presentation of the VZR more than the thinner dynamic sound of the Elegia.

Yeah same. Very hand wavey.

Not hand wavy at all. I've literally mentioned it in this thread at least once and it's in my signature. Are you on VZR's payroll?

 

[AlwaysForward]

The Focal Elegia that has been on sale at Adorama for basically years now. If we were talking the Celestee at $999 or something then I would agree get the VZR and save the money. Note that the VZR has better build quality and some might prefer the more bass heavy presentation of the VZR more than the thinner dynamic sound of the Elegia.

Not hand wavy at all. I've literally mentioned it in this thread at least once and it's in my signature. Are you on VZR's payroll?

No, I just disagree with you and doubt your calibration.

 

[561915]

The Focal Elegia that has been on sale at Adorama for basically years now. If we were talking the Celestee at $999 or something then I would agree get the VZR and save the money. Note that the VZR has better build quality and some might prefer the more bass heavy presentation of the VZR more than the thinner dynamic sound of the Elegia.

I found it for $420 but I guess I’ll take your word for it. For gaming and movies due to bigger soundstage I would imagine the VZRs to be better, but for music (with EQ) the Elegia may win out due to the faster driver. Makes me think smacking a Focal driver behind a CrossWave lens would be a good idea.

 

[Youcan1]

I think a bass transducer into whatever you’re sitting on + VZRs would blow quite a few 5.1 systems away.

Doubtful, and that isn't a knock on the VZR. If they are lower quality maybe. I've never heard any headphone that can compete with a good 5.1 system, unless it's a game like Hellblade that has an excellent headphone specific mode.

No, I just disagree with you and doubt your calibration.

This is a headphone designed to be plugged into a gaming controller. This "you didn't apply this curve or that curve" stuff is kind of silly. I already told you I tried multiple devices and EQ curves but I like to judge a headphone as is.

I found it for $420 but I guess I’ll take your word for it. For gaming and movies due to bigger soundstage I would imagine the VZRs to be better, but for music (with EQ) the Elegia may win out due to the faster driver. Makes me think smacking a Focal driver behind a CrossWave lens would be a good idea.

It may have gone up a little, regardless it's been hovering around $400 for a long time now. The VZR is better overall (for games and movies), mainly for more action heavy stuff where the thunderous bass and bigger stage makes it more impactful. I would say the Elegia is better for more story/dialog heavy stuff due to the cleaner midrange and it doesn't sound bad at anything to me.

 

[AlwaysForward]

Fine. Agree to disagree @Youcan1. I will wait for additional impressions which I am confident will reinforce what I’m saying.