[Audiofilobrpt]

The comments by @Ichos about tubes bringing holographic imaging to the midrange are dead-on true. Tubes anywhere in the chain always maximize the reproduction of space around notes/between intstruments and voices. Everything gets more 3D.

So if the choice comes down to an amp with a tube in it vs a SS amp, there is a certain sacrifice that comes with selling either. I have amps of both types and (luckily/happily for me) don't have to sell.

However, I also have a "secret weapon" in my main system, a non-amp factor that injects some of that tube goodness into all signals: the buffer tube in my MHDT Labs Orchid. A buffer tube's job is to subtly color the sound coming out of the DAC. Thus the DAC becomes part of this "holographic sound" equation. It's not the same as an tube HP amp; but it does shape the overall system sound in good ways.

Could feeding the Lyr+ a different DAC help a little to bring out this “tubey” sound?

I have the V222 and Lyr+ powered by Qutest through a Nobsound switch that has already been measured in the ASR and according to them and according to what I hear, they do not cause interference to the sound.

I have a denafrips Ares II that is installed in my speaker stereo system.
I can test it on my headamps.

Will I have any gains in terms of soundstage and “Tubey” sound?
The Ares II is reputed to have a wide soundstage. But, the details and dynamics that Qutest brings to the V222 is more appreciated by me. Especially when I listen with my Focal Clear OG or HEK Stealth.

Maybe I can try the Ares II just on the Lyr+ to see if I notice any increase in this already great holographic presentation and soundstage.

Edit: Using an Ares II instead of a Qutest could bring the Lyr+ hybrid closer to an OTL? Or can a DAC not influence much in this regard?

 

[Audiofilobrpt]

I already tested these two DACs when the V222 arrived and I liked the Qutest + V222 pairing better. I don't know if it would be time to do new tests of the Ares II + V222.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Could feeding the Lyr+ a different DAC help a little to bring out this “tubey” sound?

I have the V222 and Lyr+ powered by Qutest through a Nobsound switch that has already been measured in the ASR and according to them and according to what I hear, they do not cause interference to the sound.

I have a denafrips Ares II that is installed in my speaker stereo system.
I can test it on my headamps.

Will I have any gains in terms of soundstage and “Tubey” sound?
The Ares II is reputed to have a wide soundstage. But, the details and dynamics that Qutest brings to the V222 is more appreciated by me. Especially when I listen with my Focal Clear OG or HEK Stealth.

Maybe I can try the Ares II just on the Lyr+ to see if I notice any increase in this already great holographic presentation and soundstage.

Edit: Using an Ares II instead of a Qutest could bring the Lyr+ hybrid closer to an OTL? Or can a DAC not influence much in this regard?

You have a number of balls in the air here. I'll try to simplify:

• The choice of DAC (specifically, multibit vs NOS/multibit vs delta-sigma) definitely influences the sound, but not exactly (usually) in the manner of 3D/holographic imaging, the province of tubes
• But there are definite benefits, at least in my experience, to using a multibit or NOS DAC in the chain with a headphone amp and headphone you like
• I find the benefits are a generally improved sense of musical realism--less "digital," more analog (an overused phrase, but it applies). The sound I get from my 3 NOS DACs is more organic, composed, "all-of-a-piece" than the sound I get from delta sigma DACs. BTW, I never heard the Qutest, so can't comment
• Delta-Sigma DACS often bring other qualities that some here prioritize: greater sense of resolution and detail, sometimes more forceful/dynamic bass

So by all means try your Ares with the headphone amps and headphones. I'm guessing it will sound somewhat different than the Qutest (maybe with wider soundstaging...who knows?). But only you will know which type of DAC you prefer.

BTW, OTL tube amps play by somewhat different rules. Not only do they bring that tube goodness (3D dimensional/holographic) -- but they also raise/equalize the amp's output impedance to more closely align to the impedance of certain headphones. For example, I have several high impedance dynamic headphones by ZMF (Aeolus, Verite Open), and when these are driven by my OTL tube amp (Woo WA3), they sound subtly more composed and calm than by when driven by lower output impedance amps. This is really subtle stuff; easier to hear than describe.

 

[Audiofilobrpt]

You have a number of balls in the air here. I'll try to simplify:

• The choice of DAC (specifically, multibit vs NOS/multibit vs delta-sigma) definitely influences the sound, but not exactly (usually) in the manner of 3D/holographic imaging, the province of tubes
• But there are definite benefits, at least in my experience, to using a multibit or NOS DAC in the chain with a headphone amp and headphone you like
• I find the benefits are a generally improved sense of musical realism--less "digital," more analog (an overused phrase, but it applies). The sound I get from my 3 NOS DACs is more organic, composed, "all-of-a-piece" than the sound I get from delta sigma DACs. BTW, I never heard the Qutest, so can't comment
• Delta-Sigma DACS often bring other qualities that some here prioritize: greater sense of resolution and detail, sometimes more forceful/dynamic bass

So by all means try your Ares with the headphone amps and headphones. I'm guessing it will sound somewhat different than the Qutest (maybe with wider soundstaging...who knows?). But only you will know which type of DAC you prefer.

BTW, OTL tube amps play by somewhat different rules. Not only do they bring that tube goodness (3D dimensional/holographic) -- but they also raise/equalize the amp's output impedance to more closely align to the impedance of certain headphones. For example, I have several high impedance dynamic headphones by ZMF (Aeolus, Verite Open), and when these are driven by my OTL tube amp (Woo WA3), they sound subtly more composed and calm than by when driven by lower output impedance amps. This is really subtle stuff; easier to hear than describe.

Great!!
Very detailed and easy to understand explanation.
Thank you very much for taking the time to detail with great precision the paths I can take and what I will likely encounter if I follow them.
This HD800s won't let me rest. Lol.
The Clear OG and HEK Stealth already sound perfect to me on the V222. But, I continue to search for the best synergy for the HD800s and specifically for the use I will give them, which is only in live or acoustic performances. And for this specific use, I found the Lyr+ in tube mode to be a little better than the V222. But, I think I still haven't had the same feeling of “end game”, at least momentarily, that I had when listening to the Clear and HEK Stealth on the V222.

I'll try the pairing with the Ares II one more time before entering the world of OTL.

 

[TooFrank]

The comments by @Ichos about tubes bringing holographic imaging to the midrange are dead-on true. Tubes anywhere in the chain always maximize the reproduction of space around notes/between intstruments and voices. Everything gets more 3D.

So if the choice comes down to an amp with a tube in it vs a SS amp, there is a certain sacrifice that comes with selling either. I have amps of both types and (luckily/happily for me) don't have to sell.

However, I also have a "secret weapon" in my main system, a non-amp factor that injects some of that tube goodness into all signals: the buffer tube in my MHDT Labs Orchid. A buffer tube's job is to subtly color the sound coming out of the DAC. Thus the DAC becomes part of this "holographic sound" equation. It's not the same as an tube HP amp; but it does shape the overall system sound in good ways.

Many thanks for explaining your "secret weapon". I have been in doubt as to the optimal of my "implementation" of tubes. I decided to upgrade the stock tubes of my ifi Pro IDSD dac (in stead of upgrading the Pro iCAN) to make the tube-hybrid more versatile, that is the tubes in the dac could potentially benefit any amp. To me it seems that the V222 is benefitting greatly from being fed the a "tube buffered" signal. (To be honest, it is not easy to make tube swapping on iFi devices, so I haven't A/B'ed this to any detailed degree)

 

[realmccoy]

Many thanks for explaining your "secret weapon". I have been in doubt as to the optimal of my "implementation" of tubes. I decided to upgrade the stock tubes of my ifi Pro IDSD dac (in stead of upgrading the Pro iCAN) to make the tube-hybrid more versatile, that is the tubes in the dac could potentially benefit any amp. To me it seems that the V222 is benefitting greatly from being fed the a "tube buffered" signal. (To be honest, it is not easy to make tube swapping on iFi devices, so I haven't A/B'ed this to any detailed degree)

Agree with you that V222 likes tube signal, as it pairs very well with Lampizator Big7.
I did considered selling v222 and upgrade to V550, but I think I’ll keep it and get a Cayin HA-6A instead. V222 is a keeper indeed

 

[FinHifi]

I have driven V222 with V850, Soekris 2541 and RME ADI 2fs. V850 has the widest sound, second is Soe, and lastly RME.
All excellent choises, but Soe and V850 stand out.
While I find vocals slightly more forward than MJ3, I think it's funny that someone would say that would be an issue, but we hear things differently.
Condensed soundstage was mentioned, I can not hear anything like that...with my gear V222 sounds wider than MJ3, or anything I have heard.

As for dac, I think R2R or some Burr Brown dacs would be the best fit.

 

[IXOYE]

I have driven V222 with V850, Soekris 2541 and RME ADI 2fs. V850 has the widest sound, second is Soe, and lastly RME.
All excellent choises, but Soe and V850 stand out.
While I find vocals slightly more forward than MJ3, I think it's funny that someone would say that would be an issue, but we hear things differently.
Condensed soundstage was mentioned, I can not hear anything like that...with my gear V222 sounds wider than MJ3, or anything I have heard.

As for dac, I think R2R or some Burr Brown dacs would be the best fit.

Interesting, I use RME ADI-2 FS as DAC with my V-222 and I can't imagine that anything else can sound any better, and RME offers more options than I can ask for, so i can't see why I should upgrade to something else.

 

[Audiofilobrpt]

Excellent!! The important thing is to be happy with the synergy and enjoy the music!! I have a Qutest connected to my V222 and I am very happy with this synergy.

 

[FinHifi]

Interesting, I use RME ADI-2 FS as DAC with my V-222 and I can't imagine that anything else can sound any better, and RME offers more options than I can ask for, so i can't see why I should upgrade to something else.

I actually said that someone might prefer RME over Vio in my comparison while back It is a really good dac.

 

[Jagamov]

Interesting, I use RME ADI-2 FS as DAC with my V-222 and I can't imagine that anything else can sound any better, and RME offers more options than I can ask for, so i can't see why I should upgrade to something else.

I have the same setup and I completely agree with you.

 

[Attalal]

I have a Burson Soloist Mk2 and my mind has just been blown from moving to high gain which, on this amp, I believe does give more power to the output. I definitely hear more definition, clarity, layering and punch - but it does mean I'm right at the bottom of the volume control.

As such, I'm pretty tempted by the idea of the V202 with the promise of more power at all gain levels, and the ability to use lower pre-gain to gain more operating space on the volume control.

All my headphones run in SE at the moment and I'm mostly using Sundara, Arya Stealth and DCA Noire. If I got the V202, I would probably upgrade my DAC connections to XLR to benefit from more power in.

I like a big soundstage where possible, good detail and energy - I listen mostly to electronic music (from Tangerine Dream to Aphex Twin via trance) and guitar-led music (goth, post rock, indie, rock, shoegaze) and all the genres that cross those sounds, so a lot of the recordings aren't amazing or super dynamic, and I'm definitely not listening to string quartets, classical music etc.

Would the V202 be a step up from the Burson even in SE, and might there be any losses/trade-offs? Or is the V202 maybe not the right direction to try? I am concerned that some reviews and comments make it seem not clear/resolving on details. Thank you!

 

[wanderam]

Hello, I am very grateful for all the knowledge and experience that this thread is providing. Thanks for sharing

Continuing with the theme of a good DAC for the v222, I am thinking of pairing it, when it arrives I am still waiting, with a recent fiio K9 AKM, using only the DAC, from what I have read I think it can be a good alternative, compared to to a DAC r2r which are more expensive and out of my budget.

@Ichos I read your review of the K9 AKM, fantastic as always, you think it can be a good partner as a DAC for the v222. Thank you all so much!

 

[Ichos]

@wanderam
Thank you for reading. The FiiO K9 AKM has good sound for the money and it can pair well with the V222. You are just paying some extra cash for features you are not going to use. You can also consider the Aune X8 XVIII which also has great sound for the money and you can roll op-amps.

 

[chrisyak]

I have some great info on upcoming products from Violectric. I need to figure out what I can share and what I can't. Some was in confidentiality and some was not. All I know is that we better start saving up!