[Greggo]

Jumping in with a question as I am too lazy to read through the entire thread at this point...  I take it most of you who have heard the new amp feel that it is less warm sounding than the V200, but is this also true of the V220?  Is anyone posting about V220 impressions?  I was thinking about the Lake People G109S because I am not concerned about balanced connections or balanced headphones and the Lake People products are more in my budget range, but they don't have variable line out so I can use it to drive desktop monitors.  There was mention of new Lake People DACs so I wonder if they might update the amp line as well???
 
Anyways, I like a warm and punchy bass and some warmth through the mids and highs as well, so everything I have read about the V200 in the past is very appealing.  If I plan on sticking with HD700 and then maybe HE-560 and Grado PS500e as my upper end headphones, but still have a variety of others that I enjoy, is the V200 still the most versatile with different headphones while still maintaining a nice warm signature?  I am still in the "saving up" mode, but wondering if I should wait for a potential Lake People amp with variable output, go with a V200 and maybe a used one from folks upgrading, or save more myself and go for the V220?  And for a DAC I am watching for feedback on the new MiniMax DAC Junior, but open to a built in solution with V220 if the performance is there.
 
Sorry to ramble, just trying to get a handle on sound signature and performance of the new products and what direction might make the most sense for me.

 

[Xenophon]

Warning:  I own a V200 but have not yet heard the V220/V281.  From what you describe as the kind of sound you like and taking a look at the headphones you wish to use, the V200 looks like  a good match.  I don't see the point of the extra power in its successors unless you intend to use it with inefficient planars.  You can grab a used V200 at a serious discount, several are on sale in the forums right now.
 
One thing:  some people describe the V220/V281 sound as being more detailed as what the V200 offers.  And that's indeed my personal 'problem' with the V200; to my tastes it lacks detail and resolution, especially in the treble.  Pretty sure the headphones aren't the issue as it also plays with my HD-800.  Not everybody agrees with my impressions though so take this for what it's worth.

 

[Greggo]

Thanks for the reply!  Yes, that is the dilemma for me... I probably want the extra detail if it is there wit the V220, but not if the nice warm punch of the V200 has fallen out of the picture.  I really need to find a way to hear these products for myself I guess.  I was pretty set on the G109 but the more I think about my desktop situation in the future, the more I want to be able to run headphones and powered studio monitors.  I have always assumed that the V200 was a nice step up from the G109, and now curious if the V220 takes it much further again.
 
The other consideration for me is the internal DAC options... and it looks like the internal DAC for the 200 and 220 are the exact same, and I am interested in hearing from more folks about how those options perform against stand alone DACs in the $500-$1000 US range as that is where I am shopping.

 

[Xenophon]

For the internal DACs (24 bit version) there appears to be a consensus that they're not too great.  My V200 is equipped with one as I got it before purchasing the V800 and it's certainly not as good as that last one.  Frankly, it's good as a stopgap thing but...if I compare it with an ODAC that has RCA outs, I'd be inclined to go with that, especially because it's more versatile in the event (very likely) that you'd purchase a discrete DAC later.  
 
Or, what I'd do in a heartbeat if only I was in the US:  Get the Anedio D2, it's very good and they have it on sale at 890 USD.

 

[project86]

I actually quite like the USB DAC add on. For the price, it sounds great to me. Is it on the same level as the amp portion? Of course not. But it's very solid IMHO.

 

[Tony1110]

I actually quite like the USB DAC add on. For the price, it sounds great to me. Is it on the same level as the amp portion? Of course not. But it's very solid IMHO.

I think "solid" is a good word to describe it. I thought it was pretty impressive until I hooked the V281 up to my old Denon CD player and found that the CD player actually sounded a little better - clearer. I'm expecting the D2 to be a significant step up.

Have you tried the Alpha Primes yet?

 

[Greggo]

A different way to phrase my question here and then I will shut up and stop cluttering up this thread...
 
For anyone that has experience moving from something less capable up to the V200 or V220, here is what I am trying to decide, which of these two options would you expect to be the better performance option with someone who eventually splits there time between HD700, HE-560, and PS500e...
 
1) V220 with internal DAC
 
or 
 
2) G109S with ConceroHD or similar class DAC
 
I am wondering if it is essentially a toss up, a slightly better amp with a slightly less better DAC would end up performing at about the same level as a slightly better DAC with a slightly less better amp???  It seems like the DAC world is constantly changing, but I am not sure the differences going forward, or even the ones as of late, are really translating into better sound.   Do you still start at the source with your investment priorities or is there some magic happening at the V200 level and up that makes it more important to your end game headphone experience than any subtle details attributed to DACs?  Interested in heading some opinions on this and again, I will stay out of this thread with all my personal questions here for a good while so as not to derail things.

 

[Xenophon]

Source quality is everything.  No amount of gear or money can fix a bad quality recording or bad mastering and imo that's where your priorities should lie.  But don't go over the top, standard redbook CD quality is all one needs.  Then i'd invest most in an amp, if only because basically, amplifier technology is stable and hence depreciation typically lower. Headphones are an important but very personal choice and will to some extent determine which amp you should get.  If you're hell bent on a HE-6 I'd say get a V220/V281 or (better yet) a speaker amp. If all you ever want to drive is a HD-800 or a set of Grados then you don't need all that power and maybe the G109S is all you require.  Nobody can choose for you.

 

[Megalomaniak]

  Jumping in with a question as I am too lazy to read through the entire thread at this point...  I take it most of you who have heard the new amp feel that it is less warm sounding than the V200, but is this also true of the V220?  Is anyone posting about V220 impressions?  I was thinking about the Lake People G109S because I am not concerned about balanced connections or balanced headphones and the Lake People products are more in my budget range, but they don't have variable line out so I can use it to drive desktop monitors.  There was mention of new Lake People DACs so I wonder if they might update the amp line as well???
 
Anyways, I like a warm and punchy bass and some warmth through the mids and highs as well, so everything I have read about the V200 in the past is very appealing.  If I plan on sticking with HD700 and then maybe HE-560 and Grado PS500e as my upper end headphones, but still have a variety of others that I enjoy, is the V200 still the most versatile with different headphones while still maintaining a nice warm signature?  I am still in the "saving up" mode, but wondering if I should wait for a potential Lake People amp with variable output, go with a V200 and maybe a used one from folks upgrading, or save more myself and go for the V220?  And for a DAC I am watching for feedback on the new MiniMax DAC Junior, but open to a built in solution with V220 if the performance is there.
 
Sorry to ramble, just trying to get a handle on sound signature and performance of the new products and what direction might make the most sense for me.

 
V220/V281 SE is as warm as V200 uses to be, but balanced V281's output is more neutral, which I like very much for my LCD-2s. But that warmth doesnt "damage" the trebble, its there with all the resolution and extension.

 

[alvinmate]

   
You won't regret it. I'm using the v281 + v800 + hd800 as well, with desktop setup playing from foobar/asio. Enjoy your setup!

 
Thanks navi,
 
I think so too... it will be a great and very enjoyable setup.

 

[xaval]

  A different way to phrase my question here and then I will shut up and stop cluttering up this thread...
 
For anyone that has experience moving from something less capable up to the V200 or V220, here is what I am trying to decide, which of these two options would you expect to be the better performance option with someone who eventually splits there time between HD700, HE-560, and PS500e...
 
1) V220 with internal DAC
 
or 
 
2) G109S with ConceroHD or similar class DAC
 
I am wondering if it is essentially a toss up, a slightly better amp with a slightly less better DAC would end up performing at about the same level as a slightly better DAC with a slightly less better amp???  It seems like the DAC world is constantly changing, but I am not sure the differences going forward, or even the ones as of late, are really translating into better sound.   Do you still start at the source with your investment priorities or is there some magic happening at the V200 level and up that makes it more important to your end game headphone experience than any subtle details attributed to DACs?  Interested in heading some opinions on this and again, I will stay out of this thread with all my personal questions here for a good while so as not to derail things.

I have never heard the V200 and went straight to V220.
 
What source are you currently using?
 
Internal DAC (I have optical) after some burn in is competent and inline about with the price of the board (remember, other more expensive DACs need to factor in on the price the aditional case and power supply) and a bit upwards maybe. Not a great combo if you're used to something really better.
 
The amp section is world class so, unless you're looking at balanced headphones, I think it's all the amp you'll ever need until something "magical" happens in the way head amps are built sometime in the future. In the end you'll get an unbalanced box: excellent amp with a "nice" DAC inside.
 
If I could go back in time I wouldn't have bought the DAC board. I needed a one box solution and figured this would be it. It's an unbalanced solution. YMMV, etc.
I'm now using other DACs with the V220 and looking to buy a new one... 2 box solution
 
As for the DAC world's constant changes. It's an illusion. There hasn't happened many revolutions on how DACs sound. In fact, many are rediscovering how great vintage NOS stuff sounds. Don't fall for marketing gimmicks.

 

[Greggo]

  I have never heard the V200 and went straight to V220.
 
What source are you currently using?
 
Internal DAC (I have optical) after some burn in is competent and inline about with the price of the board (remember, other more expensive DACs need to factor in on the price the aditional case and power supply) and a bit upwards maybe. Not a great combo if you're used to something really better.
 
The amp section is world class so, unless you're looking at balanced headphones, I think it's all the amp you'll ever need until something "magical" happens in the way head amps are built sometime in the future. In the end you'll get an unbalanced box: excellent amp with a "nice" DAC inside.
 
If I could go back in time I wouldn't have bought the DAC board. I needed a one box solution and figured this would be it. It's an unbalanced solution. YMMV, etc.
I'm now using other DACs with the V220 and looking to buy a new one... 2 box solution
 
As for the DAC world's constant changes. It's an illusion. There hasn't happened many revolutions on how DACs sound. In fact, many are rediscovering how great vintage NOS stuff sounds. Don't fall for marketing gimmicks.

 
I have a NAD D1050 and I am very pleased with it.  I do get the feeling that there is more resolution to be had, but its general signature and balance is nicely done IMHO.  The amp section of the NAD is a nice step up from the Dragonfly and Explorer USB portables I have been using in the past, and there I feel like there is still much to be gained from a dedicated amp that would have more grip and power.
 
The problem I have is that the G109 seems so wonderfully competent and reasonably priced, but I am thinking that if I spring for a dedicated headphone amp it really should do two things for me: 1) never leave me wanting for yet another step up....and 2) function as a preamp to my powered monitors.  So those two nagging points have me thinking about doubling down on my investment and going with the V220 base model and then using my NAD D1050 as a DAC only until I can upgrade that another 6-12 months later down the road.  I get the feeling that the new MiniMax DAC Junior may be the new killer at the under 1k US dollar price point, but who knows, maybe if I go the V220 route by the time I am ready for a DAC there is a new V800 that is worth the investment and looks nice sitting beside a V220.  I am not above a little vanity in this process as well.
 
I emailed Arthur at ViolectricUSA and he confirmed that there are no current plans for LakePeople amp upgrades and that he felt a separate DAC around the 1k price point or above is needed to truly leverage the full potential of the V220, and though above my preferred budget, he also felt the V220 was the model that would offer the best preamp performance as well.  I know that is very subjective stuff, but it does seem like a reasonable position to me.

 

[saxelrod92]

   
I have a NAD D1050 and I am very pleased with it.  I do get the feeling that there is more resolution to be had, but its general signature and balance is nicely done IMHO.  The amp section of the NAD is a nice step up from the Dragonfly and Explorer USB portables I have been using in the past, and there I feel like there is still much to be gained from a dedicated amp that would have more grip and power.
 
The problem I have is that the G109 seems so wonderfully competent and reasonably priced, but I am thinking that if I spring for a dedicated headphone amp it really should do two things for me: 1) never leave me wanting for yet another step up....and 2) function as a preamp to my powered monitors.  So those two nagging points have me thinking about doubling down on my investment and going with the V220 base model and then using my NAD D1050 as a DAC only until I can upgrade that another 6-12 months later down the road.  I get the feeling that the new MiniMax DAC Junior may be the new killer at the under 1k US dollar price point, but who knows, maybe if I go the V220 route by the time I am ready for a DAC there is a new V800 that is worth the investment and looks nice sitting beside a V220.  I am not above a little vanity in this process as well.
 
I emailed Arthur at ViolectricUSA and he confirmed that there are no current plans for LakePeople amp upgrades and that he felt a separate DAC around the 1k price point or above is needed to truly leverage the full potential of the V220, and though above my preferred budget, he also felt the V220 was the model that would offer the best preamp performance as well.  I know that is very subjective stuff, but it does seem like a reasonable position to me.

Also about DACs, earlier in the thread it was mentioned that there will be some new Lake People DACs coming out pretty soon, that have good performance, with that lower price point.

 

[Greggo]

Yeah, I would definitely keep an eye on the Lake People DACs for my situation... I will be open to anything in the $800-$1600 range I suppose so long as the form factor is desktop friendly (on a big desk at least) or at least the same as or less of a foot print than the V220.  I am just about 100% decided that I am going to save up another few months and go for the V220.

 

[plakat]

I think the V220 is a very nice option. Regarding the DAC the word seems to be that there will be two models... I guess one below and one above the current V800. So one of them might fit your bill...