[project86]

I on occasion do use the HUGO as well as DAC for the V281, but now it's mostly the V850. Did you keep your V200 after you got the V281? (or isn't that your picture?)

No, that first pic is from earlier in this thread or some other Vio thread, I forget. I sold the V200 when I realized the V281 in SE mode was just as good or possibly better.

I use Hugo for review stuff since it is resolving, small, easy to move from room to room. I don't use it as much for normal listening though.

 

[phonomat]

John (and others), in your experience, would it be fair to compare the V850 to the Hugo? I know everyone claims that the Hugo punches way above its weight class, and it is quite a bit more expensive than the Violectric, but it is a portable unit after all, and there must be something that the Vio does better, no? Any piece of information is appreciated!

 

[Ultrainferno]

I will get back to this but I don't have too much time now. The V850 to me is a level above the HUGO dac. I like both but V850+V281+HE100 is richer and preciser than Hugo + V281 + HE1000

 

[phonomat]

  I will get back to this but I don't have too much time now. The V850 to me is a level above the HUGO dac. I like both but V850+V281+HE100 is richer and preciser than Hugo + V281 + HE1000

Thanks, Ultra, appreciate it! Sounds good already!

 

[hypersonic]

  John (and others), in your experience, would it be fair to compare the V850 to the Hugo? I know everyone claims that the Hugo punches way above its weight class, and it is quite a bit more expensive than the Violectric, but it is a portable unit after all, and there must be something that the Vio does better, no? Any piece of information is appreciated!

I have never tried a hugo, but they differ a lot already in terms of features and functions
V850 is desktop DAC only, but hugo is portable dac+amp, the form factor is already very different
V850 has balanced output, resampling options, variable analog output level (by dips), optional remote control...and more
not saying the hugo is inferior, but they really serves two purposes, actually I would love to try the hugo out too
I could easily bought one over the other, but I chose the V850, simply because it fits my usage case more.

 

[Dreaming Jester]

After all that's written about the V800 and the new V850 volume control implementation, is there any real world disadvantage of running the V850 directly into active speakers? Would any decreased resolution be audible and down to what volume level the signal would be bit perfect? 

 

[tgray]

The V800 doesn't adjust a 32-bit digital signal, only 24-bit.  That doesn't stop me from using it with both my V200 and my passive speakers + power amp.  The volume control is usually somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3rds max, and mostly at about 50%.  I notice no degradation of the signal.  At some point, I'll adjust the gain down a few dB on the internal DIP switches.  I find using the V800 volume knob convenient and nice enough that I'd rather just use it and not sweat the small stuff.  If I had a V850, I don't think there'd even be small stuff to sweat.
 
Fried has written about how much both a 24-bit and 32-bit signal can be attenuated by the digital volume control.  See the V800 thread or the FAQ page on violectric.de. 
 
For what it's worth, I do have the gain down a bit on my power amp.

 

[project86]

I've used V800 volume control with good results too. As long as you aren't playing down in the lowest regions, you aren't doing much or any audible harm. 

 

[Blackrain]

I have used the V850 to drive a 100w tube amp and also 8w tube amp.  On the 8w tube amp the volume is almost always used between 2/3rd to fully open and I cannot hear a difference.
On the 100w tube amp I use the volume at about 50% or slightly more on speakers that are inefficient.  If the volume knob falls below 50% I can hear some difference in the way the soundstage is rendered but it does not detract from the overall sound quality in my opinion.  Soundstage get a little fuzzy and the imaging seems to be not as solid but instruments still sound the way they should overall.  The important point that I guess I'm trying to make is that it is still musical and enjoyable.  When I am enjoying music I don't really look for soundstage and imaging.  That occurs only when I am comparing cables or equipment. I wouldn't sweat it if you want to use the V800 direct to a speaker amp or headphone amp I would just go ahead.

 

[hypersonic]

 
The V800 doesn't adjust a 32-bit digital signal, only 24-bit.  That doesn't stop me from using it with both my V200 and my passive speakers + power amp.  The volume control is usually somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3rds max, and mostly at about 50%.  I notice no degradation of the signal.  At some point, I'll adjust the gain down a few dB on the internal DIP switches.  I find using the V800 volume knob convenient and nice enough that I'd rather just use it and not sweat the small stuff.  If I had a V850, I don't think there'd even be small stuff to sweat.
 
Fried has written about how much both a 24-bit and 32-bit signal can be attenuated by the digital volume control.  See the V800 thread or the FAQ page on violectric.de. 
 
For what it's worth, I do have the gain down a bit on my power amp.

All volume knobs on amps are attenuators as well. As all my music are ripped from CD which is 16 bit, I rather use the digital volume on my V850.
It's smooth and precise. In fact it's one of the reasons I got this DAC, as I tried the one on V800 before and totally loved it!
I chose the lowest output level with DIPS, so I can put both volume knobs on my little tube amp (even on low gain) and DAC past 12 o'clock, which I believe give me a good balance between volume control and signal integrity
 
This is all the BS we have to deal with as audiophiles:
1. Headphones(and iems) are tailored for better compatibility with mobile device, which is hateful and disgusting.
 
2. Amp makers give amps a unreasonable high gain to boast, as uninformed consumers will think it's more "powerful" but actually they are attenuating more.
 
3. Music is recorded and mastered with very high digital level especially pop music, so it creates illusion of better sound (same story with over contrast screen on phones)

 

[Dreaming Jester]

On the V800/V850, is there a way to verify what sample rate/bit depth the dac is being fed? Since there isn't a display or sample rate indicators, how could one tell the sample rate if the dac is connected to, say, the optical port of a HDTV or any similar combination for that matter? Thanks

 

[Blackrain]

Not a real way to confirm the sample rate.  However I'm not home right now but I seem to remember that the resample button and the lights with the different resampling rates will not light for certain sample rates if you try to cycle through them all.  For example if you are using a 192/24 file-you cannot resample that file by using the x2 or x4 selection.  For 192/24 only the x1 and the best setting will work.

 

[Dreaming Jester]

Aha. I was thinking of similar 'tricks'. Thanks

 

[Dreaming Jester]

...Well, the above is my personal opinion but there is also a practical one: We have learned that a DSD data stream can´t be modified and so it is not possible to attenuate such signals in the digital domain.
As we have implemented the volume control on the digital side there is no way to process DSD data ...
 
Thank you,  
Fried

 
OK. What about Ayre Codex then or any DSD DAC with digital volume control for that matter?

 

[fdg]

@ Dreaming Jester

As far as I know, the only DSD converters with digital volume control are those working with ESS9018.

ESS does not clearly explain how they are doing the volume control inside their chips, therefore there is much supposition about that.

There seem to be some more to be puzzled by this, see here:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/ess-sabre-and-direct-stream-digital-volume-control-19955/

One explanation (taken from the above thread) is this:
"Inside the Sabre DAC chip the DSD stream is processed at the DSD rate, but it is extending to have a 32 bit representation so that it can be scaled. This is NOT the same as converting to PCM as that implies decimation filtering. Inside the Sabre, all DSD data is processed in a PCM domain, however its PCM at 64*44.1kHz = 2.8224MHz. This data is then applied to the modulator."

Again, for me as a DSD hater digital volume control on DSD signals is just another cheat concerning the treatment of such signals.

Thank you, Fried Reim