Vinyl Lovers needed, thorens 124 or technics 1200??
Mar 2, 2002 at 4:33 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 28
ai0tron

ai0tron

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Alrighty mates. I am considering a record player, Ill have to sell some stuff but i think i should try it out just so I know what this ANALOG bliss is everyone talks about. I have been looking at Record players and so far I have the thorens 124 in mind, and the technics 1200 in mind. I have heard that the thorens is just out and out awesome, albeit old. And the technics is supposed to compete with the very best if you've got a nice cartridge on it.

Other players of consideration are Rega planar 3 and... well i just don't know.

And whats the deal with this phono stage thing. Is that necessary? Will a preamp fill that role well or do i need something special to be my phono stage?

Someone give me advice, guide me.

I have a budget of about $500 and only a few old records so Ill need to buy some new records also. they have aphex twins druqzs on vinyl at the local records store. I REALLY WANT to buy it, its so awesome I love that album it makes me go nuts, that aphex twin can program the friggin crapola out of a drum machine..
 
Mar 2, 2002 at 5:36 AM Post #2 of 28
Of the three tables in your post, the Planar 3 is the standout. Another to consider at the $500 price point is the Music Hall MMF-5. I believe Pro-Ject also has a table at that price point. The two entry level tables that are often recommended are the Music Hall MMF-2.1 and the Pro-Ject 2.1, each at around $300 with cartridge. I've got the MMF-2.1 and like it, but I wound up doing some serious surgery on it to get it more to my taste (I replaced the arm with a different one, and the table is only built for its own arm...)

Thorens made some very nice tables. However, if you buy an older one, make sure that you get it checked out by someone who knows turntables. Minor things like needing a new belt are trivial. A bad bearing or worn out motor is not.

If the preamp has an input marked "phono", then it has a built in phono stage. Nothing but a turntable can be plugged into that input. The phono stage does two things. First, it boosts the output of the phono cartridge to line level, so that it is the same volume as any other source. Phono cartridges have very low output relative to a CD player, or anything else, and it needs boosting. Second, the phono stage applies RIAA equalization to the signal. This is critical for playback. An unequalized phono signal will sound highly distorted...(equalization is a necessary part of cutting the vinyl, as it prevents overly large movements of the cutting head, but it must be undone for playback)

If the preamp doesn't have a built in phono stage, there is a very inexpensive phono amp that does a decent job from Radio Shack. Battery powered and costs $25. Go to www.audioasylum.com and search the vinyl forum for "little rat". Other decent low-cost stages are the NAD, Parasound, Rotel, Sumiko phono box...most of these can be found between $100 and $200, sometimes less. You might be able to find a used Musical Fidelity XLP or XLPS for a reasonable price.

HTH
 
Mar 2, 2002 at 5:45 AM Post #3 of 28
The Rega 3 has had some very good reviews. Also highly recommended is the MMF 5 from Music Hall.

If your preamp has a "PHONO" input, you're set. Otherwise, you'll need a "Phono Stage" or Phono Preamp". Most moving magnet cartridges have an output in the 5 mv range, which needs to be boosted to the 1+ v range that a "Line In" (CD, Tape, Aux, etc.) require. Plus, a phono cartridge output must be "Equalized" to the RIAA curve.

In your price range, you're probably not going to be looking at Moving Coil cartridges, which are even lower output, but are supposed to sound even better. I don't know from experience.

IMHO, Rega and Music Hall are fantastic, low priced, entry level, 'tables. Thorens are good, but I think the above 2 are better bang for buck. Technics are, to my knowledge, mostly designed for DJ use, and really not suitable for home, high fi, use. Rugged and all that, but not designed for pure music listening.

And the Rega 25 and MMF 7 are really fantastic bangs for bucks, although almost exactly twice your budget.

If you start down the road to analog, vinyl, I believe the expression is, "Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid." I have never heard of anyone who didn't become addicted to the sound. Still like/love digital, but analog is "different". In some/most instances better, in some worse, but always different. Besides, some things are only available in one format or another, not all.

Let us know how you go and how you like it.

Try it. You'll like it.
 
Mar 2, 2002 at 2:55 PM Post #4 of 28
I like the MusicHall tables as well as the newer Thorens tables.I am not a big fan of the Regas.These should be checked when new with a strobe to make sure they don't run fast.every single one that I have had has done so.When the regas are set-up correctly they are very difficult to beat.I would stray away from the vintage tables as a first go at analog.Parts are getting expensive.

Gaineso and Hirsch made some excellent suggestions and gave you very good info.I would add that all the Rega tables come with Moving coil cartridges(when factory equipped) and the Musichalls come with Moving magnet cartridges,these typically require different phono stages,though not always,depending on the output of the cartridge.I have had very good fortune using the Creek Obh-8 for moving magnets and the OBH-9 for moving coils.You must also take into consideration that the Musichall and Thorens come with a cartridge as standard equipment,the Regas are additional cost,and truly overpriced if you buy them factory set-up.

As I always do I recommend a record cleaning machine for any vinyl listener.this will allow you to truly enjoy the vinyl "bliss" that we all cherish.
 
Mar 3, 2002 at 1:29 AM Post #7 of 28
Hmm. though since you posted that audio&me I see that those very expensive high end players also use the RB300 arm that the rega P3 uses...


HMMMM.

Anythoughts

MMF 5 versus the rega P3??
 
Mar 3, 2002 at 1:49 AM Post #8 of 28
The Rega p-stage was recommended to me a while back.

I would look at the Gram Amp 2 SE, which just got a good write up in TAS. Great price.

http://www.audiocontrol.co.uk/Gram-Amp-2-SE.htm

One consideration is to try to match you p-stage with any anticipated cart. upgrades to ensure compatibility.

My choices for later this summer are the P3 and the VPI 19JR with the Dynavector 10x4.
 
Mar 3, 2002 at 1:49 AM Post #9 of 28
Stay with the MMF-5. I think you'll be happier. Comes ready to play, or nearly so. Add the drive belt and platter, balance the arm and you're ready. Check Audio-Advisor for a phono stage. Creek makes a nice one.

I've got the MMF-2.1 and X-Can LPS. Love them, and hope to upgrade to the MMF-7.
 
Mar 3, 2002 at 8:16 PM Post #10 of 28
What about the Sumiko turntables? I haven't heard them yet, but the Wood Classic and Perspective seem interesting. I think that the tonearm makes the most difference, do they come with good ones, or would you have to get a different one? I'm still getting the Basis, but just want to broaden my experiences.
 
Mar 4, 2002 at 5:12 AM Post #11 of 28
Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me
Wood Classic and Perspective seem interesting.


My cousins owns the Perspective and loves it.

Quote:

I think that the tonearm makes the most difference, do they come with good ones, or would you have to get a different one? I'm still getting the Basis, but just want to broaden my experiences.


Rule of thumb is to spend one third on the turntable, another third on the arm, and the last third on the cartridge. (Of course you won't have any money left for the phono stage
tongue.gif
)
 
Mar 4, 2002 at 8:02 AM Post #12 of 28
MMF 5 it is!!

Should be getting it in the next week or so.

Also I got that phono stage I originally posted about on ebay.

Total price, close to 800 *cries*

I was supposed to buy a synthesizer with that money, a really really phat analog monosynth called the future retro 777
http://www.future-retro.com Damn I wanted that thing *cries*


Ill have to get new interconnects too. *cries*
 
Mar 4, 2002 at 10:57 AM Post #13 of 28
Dude you're getting a phat turntable! Shut up and be happy for once.
wink.gif
I used to have a crappy Panasonic one, and it broke. I might have to get a Thorens TD 170 just so I don't go ape **** wanting analog sound before I come up with the money for the one I really want (within spending limits).
 
Mar 4, 2002 at 7:34 PM Post #14 of 28
Audio,if you want to try out a Thorens give me a pm and maybe we can set something up.I sell the MusicHalls faster than I can get them so they are in short supply.Do you have a phono stage?or a receiver with a phono input?let me know.screaming deal promised.
 
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