Vinyl Corner. Music, Gear, Experiences.
Dec 18, 2021 at 11:35 PM Post #706 of 2,710
Have not seen a cart like this in a while. It took an hour to get it cleaned up. Cantilever, connection pins, body …. Quite a bit of a mess.

Before
8FCB328D-106D-4507-917F-A64A4EF356CC.jpeg

Some progress
4A2019F8-D11F-4437-BD40-6B97530A0835.jpeg

Final details
141C3C21-6BE8-4467-98AD-865E8BB7A011.jpeg

After
1BE1E594-7241-494A-8B92-8FCF515AA66C.jpeg
 
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Dec 18, 2021 at 11:39 PM Post #707 of 2,710
Remember I posted a picture of a bent tonearm? I got an email his technician in Germany received a new arm with an extra arm tube. He will send me a new arm and I can return the defective one with a refund for postage. It always takes a while to get here from China but I think this is very good customer care. Long distance trade requires mutual trust.

I just played one of those old mono records. 70 years old but what a sound. An old Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft tulips, Beethoven Violin Concerto by the Berliner Philharmoniker. Great tone and ambiance. The record is like new. It's just mind-boggling if you think about how long ago it was recorded and how well it sounds.

Edit: pictures above
Wow, that really cleaned up nicely! There's a real gem underneath.
 
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Dec 19, 2021 at 12:00 AM Post #708 of 2,710
Remember I posted a picture of a bent tonearm? I got an email his technician in Germany received a new arm with an extra arm tube. He will send me a new arm and I can return the defective one with a refund for postage. It always takes a while to get here from China but I think this is very good customer care. Long distance trade requires mutual trust.

I just played one of those old mono records. 70 years old but what a sound. An old Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft tulips, Beethoven Violin Concerto by the Berliner Philharmoniker. Great tone and ambiance. The record is like new. It's just mind-boggling if you think about how long ago it was recorded and how well it sounds.

Edit: pictures above
Wow, that really cleaned up nicely! There's a real gem underneath.
I’m glad you got a quality customer service. Seems like a good guy to deal with. Someone I would definitely do business with. Hopefully you get some future discount for some inconvenience. :wink:

Yeah, some of those mono records are mind blowing. I sometimes wonder how can they sound this good?

Not sure what is the magic sauce? No phase issues, timing (both related to multiple mics trickery), tone, tubes in recording chain? I don’t know. But it sounds pretty descent.

Yup, that Denon cart was playing music before it got to me. It didn’t sound right so I offered to take a look at it. And it wasn’t a pretty site. It got some age on it but suspension and styli looks like it can still sing. Stylus appears to be slightly off center but microscope lens can be deceiving so I will have to double check if it is really the case. Other then that, I think it’s good to go.
 
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Dec 19, 2021 at 12:50 AM Post #709 of 2,710
I do notice that listening in mono is more relaxed in some aspect in that it doest matter where you are in the room. No sweet spot. The music is just there. In one window. It doesn't matter where the window is because the view is just the same. And yes these old DGG recordings are very good. Good equipment and all tube. No mixing. But the Miyajima is also a good transducer. The sound is very direct, vibrant and powerful.

Since I'm out of money (budget really) there's no discount. But since Aliexpress prices have to include tax, just like Destiny Audio, prices are very reasonable. It evened the playing field.
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 1:45 AM Post #710 of 2,710
Be interesting if you can detect any tape hiss in those old mono recordings, depending on the age they could’ve been early direct cut to master disc,
Either way the replay gear available now will sound better than it did when it was made, the major improvements being the electro mechanical transducers, especially the speaker technology …..
Nice … 👍
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 12:18 PM Post #711 of 2,710
Sometimes tape hiss is distinctly detectable. And often old records sound like..
old records. But as I always keep an eye out on the labels there are plenty of diamonds to find. Labels like Verve, Columbia (American or English), Decca, HMV (cream/gold), Marconi, Odeon, Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft (last word is important, means golden era of DG before they dropped the G, with the all tulips rim), RCA Victrola (not all), Philips (purple label). And of course audiophile labels like Opus or Sheffield labs, Jecklin. Often these better old discs are quite substantial with proper deburred round edges. Fi that DGG has a fold open sleeve with a thick slip-in plastic sleeve that is down in with the cover. No glue used that might damage the vinyl. No crumpling inner sleeves, just like a velvet glove.

A caviat is though, that German vinyl after the war was often not that great. There were often bubbles and other irregularities. It got better in the 60ies.

Back then all that luxury wasn't just a gimmick but it was all done with a purpose, to guarantee quality. When you saw that white and yellow sleeve you knew you buy quality. There was less emphasis on performers or music but on the general image. A lot easier on the eyes too when you store them in your rack. Now it's often just marketing. Each trying to catch your attention or stand out. Like kindergarten kids shouting 'me! Me! ME!' All 'limited edition, gatefold, colored vinyl but the recording is just a CD master slapped on a plastic carrier. I have 2 old stereo jazz recordings (Brubeck - Take Five and N Simone - Forbidden Fruit) in stereo with faximily of the original sleeves but it sounds so lifeless. The original monos that are much less hard to find than original stereo sound so much better.

With all that modern technology they are obviously doing something wrong in the plant. Or with the mastering. There are also those uhqr releases that are done with the utmost care. Very nice. But the price?
 
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Dec 19, 2021 at 2:34 PM Post #712 of 2,710
Hopefully with the upsurge in Vinyl someone with a a little thought could concentrate on re releasing early CD stuff on Vinyl, remember when CD’s first came out they displayed the AAD, ADD, DDD icon, the ( A recorded, A mixed, D mastered) AAD versions would be perfect for a Vinyl AAA version as long as the original tapes are still available, forget re releasing DDD stuff on Vinyl as that horse has bolted …
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 3:29 PM Post #713 of 2,710
I do notice that listening in mono is more relaxed in some aspect in that it doest matter where you are in the room. No sweet spot. The music is just there. In one window. It doesn't matter where the window is because the view is just the same. And yes these old DGG recordings are very good. Good equipment and all tube. No mixing. But the Miyajima is also a good transducer. The sound is very direct, vibrant and powerful.

Since I'm out of money (budget really) there's no discount. But since Aliexpress prices have to include tax, just like Destiny Audio, prices are very reasonable. It evened the playing field.
Ortofon 2M Mono is sort of an entry level cartridge (among similarly priced cartridges) for mono records playback. I can only imagine what quality mono cartridge in relatively transparent/revealing system could do with well recorded and preserved mono LPs.
My mono LP collection is amateurish at best and I just can’t justify pumping more money into it for amount of records that I got.
But, if I come across sizable collection to acquire for reasonable asking price, all that might change.
Many don’t even look at the direction of mono records, dismissing them from perspective of inferiority and setup requirements. Which makes them quite affordable if not straight up dirt cheap.

Be interesting if you can detect any tape hiss in those old mono recordings, depending on the age they could’ve been early direct cut to master disc,
Either way the replay gear available now will sound better than it did when it was made, the major improvements being the electro mechanical transducers, especially the speaker technology …..
Nice … 👍
You can. Depends on your system. You can hear tape splices and phase shift etc.
I rarely hear all that on my main speaker system which I use mostly for pleasure listening. And I rarely pay attention to inner detail of the recordings. But on my headphone rig, all that comes through in magnified clarity.
Mono records rarely find their way to my headphone rig tho. But few did. Mostly to compare stereo vs mono mastering using original analog tapes.

Sometimes tape hiss is distinctly detectable. And often old records sound like..
old records. But as I always keep an eye out on the labels there are plenty of diamonds to find. Labels like Verve, Columbia (American or English), Decca, HMV (cream/gold), Marconi, Odeon, Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft (last word is important, means golden era of DG before they dropped the G, with the all tulips rim), RCA Victrola (not all), Philips (purple label). And of course audiophile labels like Opus or Sheffield labs, Jecklin. Often these better old discs are quite substantial with proper deburred round edges. Fi that DGG has a fold open sleeve with a thick slip-in plastic sleeve that is down in with the cover. No glue used that might damage the vinyl. No crumpling inner sleeves, just like a velvet glove.

A caviat is though, that German vinyl after the war was often not that great. There were often bubbles and other irregularities. It got better in the 60ies.

Back then all that luxury wasn't just a gimmick but it was all done with a purpose, to guarantee quality. When you saw that white and yellow sleeve you knew you buy quality. There was less emphasis on performers or music but on the general image. A lot easier on the eyes too when you store them in your rack. Now it's often just marketing. Each trying to catch your attention or stand out. Like kindergarten kids shouting 'me! Me! ME!' All 'limited edition, gatefold, colored vinyl but the recording is just a CD master slapped on a plastic carrier. I have 2 old stereo jazz recordings (Brubeck - Take Five and N Simone - Forbidden Fruit) in stereo with faximily of the original sleeves but it sounds so lifeless. The original monos that are much less hard to find than original stereo sound so much better.

With all that modern technology they are obviously doing something wrong in the plant. Or with the mastering. There are also those uhqr releases that are done with the utmost care. Very nice. But the price?
Good info on mono labels. Something I don’t know much about. So I appreciate it.

Yup, there’s a lot of marketing curve balls thrown towards our community lately. It’s a hot market that seems to getting hotter and everyone wants a piece of that pie.
The good part is that hopefully, quality of the records will improve and long out of print titles will find their way to store shelves again.
The bad? Price, mediocre quality coming from small and poorly run plants (using digital files of questionable origin), timelines associated with releases, shortage of plant facilities as well as label and jacket printing shortage.

Hopefully with the upsurge in Vinyl someone with a a little thought could concentrate on re releasing early CD stuff on Vinyl, remember when CD’s first came out they displayed the AAD, ADD, DDD icon, the ( A recorded, A mixed, D mastered) AAD versions would be perfect for a Vinyl AAA version as long as the original tapes are still available, forget re releasing DDD stuff on Vinyl as that horse has bolted …
Hopefully. I think MoFi is release good number of Van Halen titles. So perhaps we will see some titles from period when CD sort of took over…, and almost killed vinyl.
 
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Dec 19, 2021 at 3:32 PM Post #714 of 2,710
I have found the AT MONO 3/LP to offer extraordinary value for money.

I’m using it on my old Townshend Rock / Roksan Tabriz, set up as a dedicated mono rig. On sorting through my collection, I’ve found nearly two Kallax’ worth (is that now an approved unit for measuring record collections?) of original mono pressings, some of which are in absolutely mint condition…
 
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Dec 19, 2021 at 4:02 PM Post #715 of 2,710
I have found the AT MONO 3/LP to offer extraordinary value for money.

I’m using it on my old Townshend Rock / Roksan Tabriz, set up as a dedicated mono rig. On sorting through my collection, I’ve found nearly two Kallax’ worth (is that now an approved unit for measuring record collections?) of original mono pressings, some of which are in absolutely mint condition…
I’m thinking of doing exactly that. Setting up my Townshend for mono setup exclusively.
I’m just not sure what arm and cartridge to use. I could keep my already mounted Moarch UP4 unipivot but that would require new mono cartridge that is compatible with it (I actually could use some help in determining that guys). Or, move my SME3009 from DIY TT to Townshend and keep Ortofon.
The later will require some work since I would have to cut new armboard for Townshend and modify acrylic tonearm base on DIY TT. I’m not sure if I want to go through all that hassle …?
Any suggestion of mono carts that would work with Moarch UP4 tonearm would be appreciated since it would probably be an easier solution.
 
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Dec 19, 2021 at 8:23 PM Post #716 of 2,710
I’m thinking of doing exactly that. Setting up my Townshend for mono setup exclusively.
I’m just not sure what arm and cartridge to use. I could keep my already mounted Moarch UP4 unipivot but that would require new mono cartridge that is compatible with it (I actually could use some help in determining that guys). Or, move my SME3009 from DIY TT to Townshend and keep Ortofon.
The later will require some work since I would have to cut new armboard for Townshend and modify acrylic tonearm base on DIY TT. I’m not sure if I want to go through all that hassle …?
Any suggestion of mono carts that would work with Moarch UP4 tonearm would be appreciated since it would probably be an easier solution.
You realise that the Mörch tonearm can hold 3 different dffd tive weight armwands? So as long as you don't mention what armwand you're using, or what colour dot, no one can tell. :wink:

I have a few AT95 carts with all sorts of needles. And a dedicated mono AT95 with a 78 stylus. Easy and cheap to swap needles. It's less than half the price of the white ortofon (you really don't want, do you?). Like €50.
The AT33 LP and SP are dirt cheap true MC carts (from eBay in Japan like €120). Do watch out for which is which, the 78 spherical is quite large 3mil.
There's also the premium AT33Mono at >€300. And the Chinese Lpaudio Windbell mono (light blue) is also quite good and not that expensive (€230).
I don't know much about the Grado and other offerings.

I think any AT would work ok in a medium or heavy arm. As do most others. There's not much you can buy for really lightweight or heavy arms these days.

I was thinking of modifying and old Lenco arm with a modern armtube and fixed headshell, use some Cardas straight wire. I can make a 12" heavy arm, no problem. Just stick a carbon rod in as extra. Or a bigger diameter around it. I've already done that once with some nice miniature ABEC7 bearings.
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 9:04 PM Post #717 of 2,710
It’s red dot. I think medium compliance (7.5g). I think they consider it “medium” on their website but perhaps it’s more on the light side. Not sure how to interpret common wisdom and their own logic….
I have looked at AT 33LP and Hana mono. Hana retails for $700 so a bit pricey.
 
Dec 19, 2021 at 11:37 PM Post #718 of 2,710
Stylus on that Denon cartridge looked a little bent. Straightening it, is a really tricky and risky business. I’ve tried to at least attempt to see what can be done in the most gentle way possible. I don’t think I have skills to do it but stylus appears to be straight now.
D2CE325E-CB19-4FB8-866C-C617191E4578.jpeg

50C88301-0724-4A8A-9AC4-C4472E94528E.jpeg


Ofcause this isn’t “NASA” precision Lol But close enough.
 
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Dec 20, 2021 at 12:06 AM Post #719 of 2,710
News for our wealthier friends. The Nagra Reference Anniversary Turntable is officially hitting the market. I won’t go into details on technology and such. All you need to know is that it weighs 176 pounds and costs $175,000.
Now wouldn’t it be nice to find one under your Christmas tree….
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D703D572-C222-418C-A9C2-FC376C21CB2B.jpeg
 
Dec 20, 2021 at 1:02 PM Post #720 of 2,710
It's only a $1000 per pound. If it were a Rega it would be a lot cheaper. If it were cheaper they would probably sell more. Spread out the research cost. This is a bit on the wrong side of the spiral for me.

It certainly looks distinct and high tech.
 

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